[rpd] Global PDP (was: "Unaddressed queries by AFRINIC during AGMM")

[Sylvain Baya]

{move to a new thread from [*]}
Dear PDWG,

Le mer. 30 juin 2021 11:02 AM, Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com> a écrit :


> Hi Sylvain

>



Hi Mike,
Thanks for your reply, brother!

On 29 Jun 2021, at 19:12, Sylvain Baya <abscoco at gmail.com> wrote:

>

> You may recall this proposal (which was abandoned) [thanks Mike for the

> reminder to go look for it]:

>



...my concrete involvement within the
PDWG started after :'-(

So! i'm discovering that gDPP... :-)
Thanks for the pointer, brother.



> https://politicas.lacnic.net/politicas/detail/id/LAC-2018-1/language/en

>



...i went through the URI, i read the title;
and it was sufficient for me.

We should remember that, as stricly
defined, global Policies, are implemented
by IANA as set of rules to manage the
global pool of Internet number resources
and distribute it on a justified needs basis.

...that said, it appears that a gDPP to
creating a GIR is not applicable, simply
because a GIR is not something that IANA
can implement. Changing the title would
have helped i guess, as well as the approach.

The piece of texts i shared, to practically
support my explanation, takes into
account both the Global PDP [1] and the
ASO MoU...so it's a more gPDP-compliant
approach.
__
[1]: Global PDP | The Address Supporting Organization (ASO ICANN)
<https://aso.icann.org/policy/global/global-policy-development-process/>

Again a gDPP of that kind doesn't need
to limit the implementer options :-)




> It was briefly discussed on the RPD list:

>

> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2018/thread.html#8247

>

>

...brief! but sufficient for me, though :-)

An email [2] from Douglas was really
instructive; because it shows a good
understanding of the gPDP and the
current Internet Numbers Registry System.
__
[2]:<https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2018/008248.html>

...it's quite the same way i understand the gPDP, ASO MoU and ICP-2.




> you are suggesting that certain entities would be able to obtain resources

>> directly from the IANA? Does this not make either the IANA or the recipient

>> a type of non-regional-RIR? In which case it would need to follow the

>> process outlined in ICP-2.

>>

>

>

> ...you know, that might be part of the implementation aspects. It's not

> necessary to have it as part that kind of draft! but following your

> reflection on that

> point, yes i can say that it keeps the door

>  open to an implementation on which we

>  could end up with one GIR (Global

> Internet Registry). Other possibilities exist

> ...the Internet Numbers Registry System

> allows them; but, again i see it as an

> implementation issue for this kind of

> global DPP's idea.

>

> This has been suggested and abandoned (see above).

>



...the piece of texts presents a different
solution and this is just an implementation
option leaved to the implementer ;-)




> ...in fact, some of the criteria of ICP-2 [*]

> are not applicable to a GIR as mentioned.

> If ratified, as a global policy, a global DPP

> with a similar spirit will be implemented.

> How? the implementer shall decide... :-)

>

>

> I am not sure it is that simple. IMO the suggestion would require ICP-2 to

> be revised before the option could be entertained.

>



...i said it is simple, not easy, so if you want the Staff could carry your
concern to the NRO :-)

The gPDP appears to be simple.


A suggestion made by Douglas Onyango in 2018.

>



<
https://afrinic.net/policy/archive/out-of-region-use-of-afrinic-internet-number-resources/amp

>


...a well inspired DPP, imho!



> ...you know, that is not my primary

> interest, i just wanted to point that:

> global issues should be traithed globally. If the problem is to offer

> better means to

> orgs like CDNs or DDOS firewalls...then

> it could be simpler to follow the global PDP.

>

> There is no global PDP. As Owen pointed out, there are regional PDPs which

> need to coalesce into a uniform policy to become global policy.

>



...sure! Owen says what he knows, but the
records say otherwise :-/

Global PDP | The Address Supporting Organization (ASO ICANN)
<https://aso.icann.org/policy/global/global-policy-development-process/>



> I also think that convenience for CDNs or DDOS firewalls is not the main

> objective of global policy :-)

>



...a global policy serves to manage the
global pool of Internet number resources.

If someone think there is a



>

>> I would need to see a fleshed out proposal with a lot more detail before

>> I express an opinion, however I do agree that my initial knee-jerk reaction

>> that this is not global policy may not have been correct.

>>

>

>

> Owen, are you ready now? brother you

> are the one who enlightened that global

> issue...

>

> Maybe look at Owen’s 2018 response here:

>

> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2018/008286.html

>



...i understand his position on the problem
and i respect it. That is why i suggested
to go for a gDPP :-)

...the practice was since documented!

Please see here <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7020>:

~°~
[...]
Regional IRs
[...]
      In cases where LIRs span multiple regions, those LIRs have
      established relationships with multiple RIRs.
[...]
~°~




>

>> I am also not sure that such a proposal would pass a sanity check under

>> ICP-2 or the ASO MoU with ICANN, but happy to comment once there is more

>> detail provided.

>>

>

>

> ...if processed, it should have to simply

> follow the global PDP ;-)

>

>

> Not if it does not comply with ICP-2, in which case the amendment of ICP-2

> would be a necessary starting point.

>



...as the APNIC's Staff pointed it right also,
a GIR is not a RIR...so, ICP-2 not apply :-/


Happy to debate if that would need to happen before the policy could pass,

> or would be an implementation step as part of the policy, or would require

> a separate policy.

>



Thanks, if someone is interested, the piece of texts is already here [3].
Those who are interested can adjust it and start to follow the gPDP.
__
[3]: under a CC-BY-SA 4.0 lisence ;-)
<https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013392.html>



>

>> Needless to say, I think the prospects of such a proposal becoming global

>> policy are slim to none, but not bad as a thought experiment.

>>

>

>

> ...if you elaborate on the exact barriers

> you expect it could encounter, then i will

> be glad to share my thougths about.

>

>

> See the links I referenced above. Maybe start with the comments from

> LACNIC staff.

>



...back to the same place then :-)

IAR from LACNIC's Staff was well written, imho.

...again the problem is well known, and
was well defined, by the DPP's Author of
that gDPP; but unfortunately the chosen
solution was too much complex for a
simple problem. He would have preferably
leaved, to the implementer, the part of
the proposal related to the establishement
of a GIR...starting by a different title :-)

Thanks again, brother!
__
[*]: <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013402.html>


Shalom,
--sb.



> Regards

>

> Mike

>

>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/attachments/20210701/fabf7a57/attachment-0001.html>