[Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 551, Issue 1

Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele muyiwacaleb at gmail.com
Tue Dec 10 17:07:55 UTC 2019

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@Anthony,

I believe this is not an RPD list. An opinion does not constitute to making
a case for a policy or going against it.

You can raise such issues on RPD which is an appropriate forum for such
policy conversation. I only aired an opinion.

Thank you

Caleb

On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 5:47 PM Anthony Ubah <ubah.tonyiyke at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Caleb and Arnaud,

>

>

>

> I’m confused about your insinuation on this with respect to the solving

> the problem at hand. From the surface value, it looks like a very good

> policy. However, I still struggle to decipher with the practicality of

> implementing the Internet Number Resource review policy, and the

> consequences in the real world.

>

> African is a region of complex and opaque soc-political systems.

> Introducing such complex policies will most likely not lead to an abuse of

> power, over-policing, and victimization. Introducing a Gestapo style

> policing will create a cancerous system which will be unfavorable to the

> region’ as a whole.

>

> I was at the at just concluded meeting where this policy was

> re-represented, giving the feedback from the community, I hoped to see a

> revised version but alas! it was the same.

>

>

>

> *Best Regards,*

>

> *ANTHONY *

>

> E-mail: anthony.ubah at goldspine.com <anthony.ubah at gloworld.com>.ng

>

>

> On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 2:58 PM <community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>

> wrote:

>

>> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to

>> community-discuss at afrinic.net

>>

>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

>> community-discuss-request at afrinic.net

>>

>> You can reach the person managing the list at

>> community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net

>>

>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific

>> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."

>>

>>

>> Today's Topics:

>>

>> 1. Re: Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1 (Arnaud AMELINA)

>> 2. Re: Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1 (Arnaud AMELINA)

>>

>>

>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 1

>> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:48:37 +0000

>> From: Arnaud AMELINA <amelnaud at gmail.com>

>> To: Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>

>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547,

>> Issue 1

>> Message-ID:

>> <CAGDMR_cXHVW34SOD40wNBOrhiVOzR1-p+=

>> CPTkSvfPCLee3mPw at mail.gmail.com>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>>

>> +1 to Caleb as you say it, it's time to find consensus on review policy.

>>

>> Regard

>>

>> --

>> Arnaud

>>

>> Le ven. 6 d?c. 2019 ? 15:48, Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <

>> muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>

>> a ?crit :

>>

>> > Dear Ronald,

>> >

>> > So I read where this comment below was attributed to you.

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > *>?Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our

>> > reasonable> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS

>> > database. Exactly> such unredacted database dumps *are* provided by

>> all of

>> > the four other> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers

>> and

>> > journalists upon> request. When we submitted repeated requests for

>> exactly

>> > such unredacted> WHOIS database dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our

>> > requests were rejected> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any

>> > community-approved policy> was cited as the basis for the denial.?*

>> > While not taking brief for AFRINIC or any of its staff, I feel you

>> should

>> > know that AFRINIC?s operation is also being governed by Mauritius data

>> > protection law.

>> > Mauritius regulates data protection under the Data Protection Act 2017

>> > (DPA 2017 or Act), proclaimed through Proclamation No. 3 of 2018,

>> effective

>> > January 15, 2018. The Act repeals and replaces the Data Protection Act

>> > 2004, so as to align with the European Union General Data Protection

>> > Regulation 2016/679 (GDPR).

>> >

>> > Even if you are not familiar with Mauritius law, the EU GDPR which is

>> more

>> > popular should tell you the implication of revealing a WHOIS database

>> to a

>> > non-state prosecutorial actor like yourself who does not have a court

>> > warrant to see the redacted sections you seek. Please correct me if I?m

>> > wrong in my legal analysis of your request.

>> >

>> > Perhaps, isn?t it time for the community to revisit the Internet Number

>> > Resources review policy

>> > <https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal> which was not

>> > on the docket for policy at this just-concluded meeting?

>> > https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal

>> >

>> > We might be doing something right this time if that policy will allow

>> for

>> > a diligent review of resources including the legacy ones.

>> >

>> > Regards

>> >

>> > Caleb Ogundele

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 12:17 PM <community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>

>> > wrote:

>> >

>> >> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to

>> >> community-discuss at afrinic.net

>> >>

>> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

>> >> community-discuss-request at afrinic.net

>> >>

>> >> You can reach the person managing the list at

>> >> community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net

>> >>

>> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific

>> >> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Today's Topics:

>> >>

>> >> 1. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)

>> >> 2. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mike Silber)

>> >> 3. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Elkins)

>> >> 4. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Andrew Alston)

>> >> 5. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)

>> >> 6. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)

>> >> 7. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)

>> >> 8. [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC (Sylvain Baya)

>> >> 9. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Isabel Odida)

>> >> 10. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)

>> >> 11. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)

>> >> 12. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)

>> >> 13. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)

>> >> 14. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)

>> >> 15. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)

>> >> 16. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)

>> >> 17. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)

>> >> 18. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)

>> >> 19. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 1

>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:27:42 +0200

>> >> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>

>> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16 at seacom.mu>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>> >>

>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >>

>> >> Mark.

>> >>

>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

>> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>> >> >

>> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how

>> >> > to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>> >> >

>> >> > Thanks.

>> >> >

>> >> > Sunday.

>> >> >

>> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

>> following

>> >> >> news story.

>> >> >>

>> >> >>

>> >>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >> >>

>> >> >> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the moment,

>> >> >> I only

>> >> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> >> >> Vermeulen

>> >> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> >> >> ? ? Regards,

>> >> >> rfg

>> >> >>

>> >> >>

>> >> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >>

>> >>

>> >> -------------- next part --------------

>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

>> >> URL: <

>> >>

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/7f6aa1b8/attachment-0001.html

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 2

>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:46:15 +0200

>> >> From: Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com>

>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3 at gmail.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>> >>

>> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to

>> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

>> >>

>> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

>> and

>> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

>> >>

>> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

>> space

>> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and

>> then

>> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current

>> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those

>> processes

>> >> may not have the desired outcome.

>> >>

>> >> Mike

>> >>

>> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >> >

>> >> > Mark.

>> >> >

>> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

>> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>> >> >>

>> >> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see

>> how

>> >> to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Thanks.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Sunday.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >> >>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

>> >> following

>> >> >>> news story.

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>>

>> >>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >> <

>> >>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >

>> >>

>> >> >>> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the

>> moment,

>> >> I only

>> >> >>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> >> Vermeulen

>> >> >>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> >> >>> Regards,

>> >> >>> rfg

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>> _______________________________________________

>> >> >>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:

>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>

>> >> >>>

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >>

>> >> -------------- next part --------------

>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

>> >> URL: <

>> >>

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/1d4a9dec/attachment-0001.html

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 3

>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:59:57 +0200

>> >> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>

>> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f at posix.co.za>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

>> >>

>> >> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to

>> >> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case

>> (looting

>> >> of non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.

>> >>

>> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:

>> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears

>> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

>> >> >

>> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

>> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

>> >> >

>> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

>> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been

>> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of

>> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving

>> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.

>> >> >

>> >> > Mike

>> >> >

>> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu

>> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Mark.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa,

>> AfriNIC

>> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see

>> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>> Thanks.

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>> Sunday.

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

>> >> >>>> following

>> >> >>>> news story.

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>>

>> >>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the

>> >> >>>> moment, I only

>> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> >> >>>> Vermeulen

>> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,

>> >> >>>> rfg

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________

>> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>

>> >> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >

>> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> --

>> >>

>> >> Mark James ELKINS? -? Posix Systems - (South) Africa

>> >> mje at posix.co.za?????? Tel: +27.826010496 <tel:+27826010496>

>> >> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za

>> >>

>> >> Posix SystemsVCARD for MJ Elkins

>> >>

>> >> -------------- next part --------------

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>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 4

>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:10:48 +0000

>> >> From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>

>> >> To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>,

>> >> "community-discuss at afrinic.net" <community-discuss at afrinic.net

>> >

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID:

>> >> <

>> >>

>> DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0 at DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

>> >>

>> >> I would be very curious to hear from a legal perspective what - if any

>> -

>> >> legal liability AfriNIC has in a situation like this.

>> >>

>> >> The fact is - space has value - and if space is stolen - used for spam

>> or

>> >> whatever else - and the reputation of said space is damaged - it?s

>> value

>> >> decreases. Now I fully realize that space can be hijacked - and at

>> that

>> >> point potentially the hijackers may hold the liability. However - when

>> the

>> >> space seems to have been stolen and sold off by a staff member of the

>> >> organization that is meant in effect to the curator of the space - I

>> >> question if there is not a liability issue at play if it can be proven

>> that

>> >> due care was not taken to safe guard against the actions taken.

>> >>

>> >> I?m no lawyer though so I would really be interested to know the legal

>> >> perspective - can an rir be held liable to the actions of its staff if

>> it

>> >> did not adequately protect against the actions taken.

>> >>

>> >> Andrew

>> >>

>> >> Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

>> >> ________________________________

>> >> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>

>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 3:59:57 PM

>> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to

>> >> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case

>> (looting of

>> >> non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.

>> >>

>> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:

>> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to

>> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

>> >>

>> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

>> and

>> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

>> >>

>> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

>> space

>> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and

>> then

>> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current

>> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those

>> processes

>> >> may not have the desired outcome.

>> >>

>> >> Mike

>> >>

>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu<mailto:

>> >> mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:

>> >>

>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >>

>> >> Mark.

>> >>

>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

>> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>> >>

>> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how

>> to

>> >> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>> >>

>> >> Thanks.

>> >>

>> >> Sunday.

>> >>

>> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following

>> >> news story.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >> <

>> >>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >> >

>> >> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I

>> >> only

>> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> Vermeulen

>> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> >> Regards,

>> >> rfg

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> --

>> >>

>> >> Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa

>> >> mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za> Tel:

>> >> +27.826010496<tel:+27826010496>

>> >> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za<

>> >> https://ftth.posix.co.za>

>> >>

>> >> [Posix Systems][VCARD for MJ Elkins]

>> >> -------------- next part --------------

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>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 5

>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:11:04 +0200

>> >> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>

>> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17 at seacom.mu>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>> >>

>> >> I don't disagree with that either.

>> >>

>> >> I am certain AFRINIC are working on this, and I know there will be no

>> >> shortage of queries about this from the field, much to our

>> >> already-clogged e-mail boxes. I don't want to do the jobs of others; no

>> >> one is doing mine for me.

>> >>

>> >> My preferred current focus - your last paragraph, below.

>> >>

>> >> Mark.

>> >>

>> >> On 5/Dec/19 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:

>> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears

>> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

>> >> >

>> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

>> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

>> >> >

>> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

>> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been

>> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of

>> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving

>> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.?

>> >> >

>> >> > Mike

>> >> >

>> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu

>> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Mark.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa,

>> AfriNIC

>> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see

>> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>> Thanks.

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>> Sunday.

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

>> >> >>>> following

>> >> >>>> news story.

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>>

>> >>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the

>> >> >>>> moment, I only

>> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> >> >>>> Vermeulen

>> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,

>> >> >>>> rfg

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________

>> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>

>> >> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >

>> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> -------------- next part --------------

>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

>> >> URL: <

>> >>

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/c8c491fa/attachment-0001.html

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 6

>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:54:21 +0100

>> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>

>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"

>> >>

>> >> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway

>> suggest

>> >> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy

>> >> space.

>> >>

>> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal

>> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

>> >> done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

>> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand

>> >> accountable for their deeds.

>> >>

>> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

>> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7

>> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to

>> discover

>> >> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active

>> >> use, why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry

>> for

>> >> the common good?

>> >>

>> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal

>> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by

>> now.

>> >>

>> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf

>> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,

>> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should

>> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are

>> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of

>> our

>> >> time and intellect.

>> >>

>> >> Sunday.

>> >>

>> >> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:

>> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears

>> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

>> >> >

>> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

>> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

>> >> >

>> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

>> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been

>> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of

>> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving

>> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.

>> >> >

>> >> > Mike

>> >> >

>> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu

>> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Mark.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa,

>> AfriNIC

>> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see

>> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>> Thanks.

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>> Sunday.

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

>> >> >>>> following

>> >> >>>> news story.

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>>

>> >>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the

>> >> >>>> moment, I only

>> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> >> >>>> Vermeulen

>> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,

>> >> >>>> rfg

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________

>> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>

>> >> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >

>> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >>

>> >> --

>> >> --------------------------------------------------

>> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan

>> >> Managing Director

>> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

>> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

>> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

>> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com

>> >> ---------------------------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> -------------- next part --------------

>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

>> >> URL: <

>> >>

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/118317f5/attachment-0001.html

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 7

>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:15:59 +0200

>> >> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>

>> >> To: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>

>> >> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID:

>> >> <CAG1eoi3w-F2Ui-BfiKmBqYJ=

>> >> srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw at mail.gmail.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>> >>

>> >> I have to agree with this. As shocking and disappointing as the

>> >> revelations

>> >> might be, this makes the most sense to me.

>> >>

>> >> Omo

>> >>

>> >> On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, 20:56 Sunday Folayan, <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

>> >>

>> >> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway

>> suggest

>> >> > that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on

>> legacy

>> >> > space.

>> >> >

>> >> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal

>> >> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

>> >> done.

>> >> > I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

>> >> established,

>> >> > the law should take its course and people should stand accountable

>> for

>> >> > their deeds.

>> >> >

>> >> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

>> >> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards

>> of 7

>> >> > years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to

>> discover

>> >> > the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in

>> active

>> >> use,

>> >> > why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for

>> the

>> >> > common good?

>> >> >

>> >> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their

>> legal

>> >> > department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by

>> >> now.

>> >> >

>> >> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on

>> behalf

>> >> of

>> >> > the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,

>> with

>> >> > the assurance that justice will be served, the community should

>> rather

>> >> > apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available

>> for

>> >> > developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and

>> >> > intellect.

>> >> > Sunday.

>> >> >

>> >> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears

>> to

>> >> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

>> >> >

>> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

>> >> and

>> >> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

>> >> >

>> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

>> space

>> >> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated

>> and

>> >> then

>> >> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current

>> >> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those

>> >> processes

>> >> > may not have the desired outcome.

>> >> >

>> >> > Mike

>> >> >

>> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >> >

>> >> > Mark.

>> >> >

>> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

>> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>> >> >

>> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see

>> how to

>> >> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>> >> >

>> >> > Thanks.

>> >> >

>> >> > Sunday.

>> >> >

>> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

>> following

>> >> > news story.

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment,

>> I

>> >> > only

>> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> >> Vermeulen

>> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> >> > Regards,

>> >> > rfg

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://

>> >> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >> > --

>> >> > --------------------------------------------------

>> >> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan

>> >> > Managing Director

>> >> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

>> >> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

>> >> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

>> >> > Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com

>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >> -------------- next part --------------

>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

>> >> URL: <

>> >>

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/582fac38/attachment-0001.html

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 8

>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:28:06 +0100

>> >> From: Sylvain Baya <abscoco at gmail.com>

>> >> To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>,

>> >> "community-discuss at afrinic.net" <community-discuss at afrinic.net

>> >

>> >> Subject: [Community-Discuss] [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID:

>> >> <

>> >> CAJjTEvE+sHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS+AwyF6Kg at mail.gmail.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>> >>

>> >> Hi all,

>> >>

>> >> Le jeudi 5 d?cembre 2019, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za> a ?crit :

>> >>

>> >> > Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to

>> >> > manipulate the non-legacy space -

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> Dear Mark,

>> >> ...i agree !

>> >>

>> >> yet it happened. In this case (looting of non-legacy space), the RSA

>> has

>> >> > meant nothing.

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> As you say, i take you on words ; then if the RSA (Registration Service

>> >> Agreement) could

>> >> easily be bypassed, how to deal with our 'emerged' problem ?

>> >>

>> >> ...perhaps time to seriously reconsider the long life DPP (Draft Policy

>> >> Proposal) [1] ?

>> >> __

>> >> [1]: <https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp>

>> >>

>> >> Shalom,

>> >> --sb.

>> >>

>> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears

>> to

>> >> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

>> >> >

>> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

>> >> and

>> >> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

>> >> >

>> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

>> space

>> >> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated

>> and

>> >> then

>> >> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current

>> >> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those

>> >> processes

>> >> > may not have the desired outcome.

>> >> >

>> >> > Mike

>> >> >

>> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >> >

>> >> > Mark.

>> >> >

>> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

>> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>> >> >

>> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see

>> how to

>> >> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>> >> >

>> >> > Thanks.

>> >> >

>> >> > Sunday.

>> >> >

>> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

>> following

>> >> > news story.

>> >> >

>> >> > https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-

>> >> >

>> >>

>> resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment,

>> I

>> >> > only

>> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> >> Vermeulen

>> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> >> > Regards,

>> >> > rfg

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://

>> >> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >> > --

>> >> >

>> >> > Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa

>> >> > mje at posix.co.za Tel: +27.826010496 <+27826010496>

>> >> > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA:

>> https://ftth.posix.co.za

>> >> >

>> >> > [image: Posix Systems][image: VCARD for MJ Elkins]

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> --

>> >>

>> >> --

>> >> Best Regards !

>> >> baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] | <https://www.cmnog.cm> | <

>> >> https://survey.cmnog.cm>

>> >> Subscribe to Mailing List : <

>> >> https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/>

>> >> __

>> >> #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|?#?Romains15?:33?*Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit

>> avec

>> >> vous tous! ?#?Amen?!*?

>> >> ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement?

>> >> ?*Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me

>> soupire

>> >> apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!*? (#Psaumes42:2)

>> >> -------------- next part --------------

>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

>> >> URL: <

>> >>

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/63b5ef24/attachment-0001.html

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 9

>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:43:48 +0100

>> >> From: Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com>

>> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

>> >> Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

>> >>

>> >> I know what sparked this story. Some people have no chill. How

>> convenient

>> >> following the last meeting in June. Ok, and then what? What have you

>> >> benefited?

>> >>

>> >> Sent from my iPhone

>> >>

>> >> > On 4 Dec 2019, at 18:23, Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

>> >> wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

>> following

>> >> > news story.

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >> >

>> >> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I

>> >> only

>> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> >> Vermeulen

>> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > Regards,

>> >> > rfg

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 10

>> >> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:44:58 -0800

>> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <18818.1575585898 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>> >>

>> >> In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,

>> >> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

>> >>

>> >> >The community has been informed that there is already some internal

>> >> >investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

>> >> >done.

>> >>

>> >> Mr. Folayan,

>> >>

>> >> These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,

>> >> 2019, a full three months ago. Since that time there has not been a

>> >> single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,

>> >> or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague

>> assurances

>> >> that these matters are being looked into.

>> >>

>> >> Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns

>> >> about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full

>> >> three years ago.

>> >>

>> >>

>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html

>> >>

>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html

>> >>

>> >> I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again

>> >> repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,

>> >> albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention

>> >> paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any

>> >> concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.

>> >>

>> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html

>> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html

>> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html

>> >>

>> >> At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly

>> >> in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive

>> >> issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to

>> >> entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it

>> >> were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the

>> >> courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za. Neither the board nor

>> >> the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any

>> >> clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will

>> >> either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders

>> >> and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive

>> >> any of the findings that it may reach. And yet despite having had

>> >> either three full months or three full years to look into these

>> >> matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and

>> >> despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming

>> >> from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.

>> >>

>> >> This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the

>> >> community's patience to come to an end? Does the community have any

>> >> assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another

>> >> three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield

>> >> anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the

>> >> current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions

>> >> of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?

>> >>

>> >> On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at

>> long

>> >> last be forthcoming?

>> >>

>> >> >I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

>> >> >established, the law should take its course and people should stand

>> >> >accountable for their deeds.

>> >>

>> >> This assertion on your part begs four further questions:

>> >>

>> >> 1) Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been

>> presented

>> >> in the MyBroadband.co.za article, the majority of which were drawn

>> from

>> >> publicly available sources including open government records, what more

>> >> will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and

>> intentions

>> >> are established"? What parts of the abundant documentary evidence

>> already

>> >> presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?

>> >>

>> >> 2) If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za article, it can be

>> >> persuasively

>> >> demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in

>> fact

>> >> purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC

>> >> itself is one of the aggrieved parties? And if so, would you hope and

>> >> expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and

>> >> all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?

>> >>

>> >> 3) Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and

>> >> endemic

>> >> within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do

>> you

>> >> have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all

>> >> likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?

>> >>

>> >> 4) What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-

>> >> documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks

>> from

>> >> AFRINIC's own free pool? Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed

>> by

>> >> AFRINIC? Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever

>> they

>> >> may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty

>> >> on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?

>> >>

>> >> >I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

>> >> >organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of

>> 7

>> >> >years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to

>> discover

>> >> >the manipulations.

>> >>

>> >> On this point, you and I are in complete agreement. "The system", such

>> >> as it is, is quite self-evidently broken. But this raises the further

>> >> question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at

>> >> AFRINIC,

>> >> while all of this was going on. Is it even plausible that a single bad

>> >> actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars

>> >> worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a

>> >> several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC

>> >> staff even noticed any of this?

>> >>

>> >> >For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their

>> legal

>> >> >department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by

>> >> now.

>> >>

>> >> See above. Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with

>> >> respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself. No other

>> >> single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much

>> >> valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself. And yet we have, as yet, no

>> >> clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff

>> >> member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone

>> >> that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated

>> >> by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.

>> >>

>> >> If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new

>> dictionary.

>> >>

>> >> >While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf

>> >> >of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,

>> >> >with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should

>> >> >rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are

>> >> >available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of

>> our

>> >> >time and intellect.

>> >>

>> >> See above. With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we

>> >> may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"? I

>> have

>> >> so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any

>> >> document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of

>> >> AFRINIC. In fact, quite the opposite. I see that a purported three

>> >> month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth

>> publicly

>> >> reporting on so far. I see an attempt to shift the blame for this

>> >> colossal

>> >> and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders

>> >> while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of

>> >> AFRINIC itself. I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action

>> >> will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a

>> >> backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general

>> >> disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific

>> >> national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.

>> >>

>> >> For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,

>> >> Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.

>> >> The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and

>> >> to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or

>> >> placed

>> >> under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to

>> all.

>> >> AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding

>> >> responsibility.

>> >>

>> >> I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively

>> >> remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing

>> >> after-effects. I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now

>> >> evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the

>> carpet

>> >> will no longer be considered a vialble option.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Regards,

>> >> rfg

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> P.S. I must strenuously object to your use of the word

>> "whistleblower" in

>> >> this context Mr. Folayan. That term is usually used in reference to

>> some

>> >> insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed

>> >> first-hand some malfeasance. Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this

>> >> description. Rather, we have labored as outsiders only. We have not

>> >> been privy to any "inside" information. Quite the opposite in fact.

>> We

>> >> have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests

>> >> for information by AFRINIC staff.

>> >>

>> >> Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our

>> >> reasonable

>> >> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.

>> >> Exactly

>> >> such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other

>> >> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists

>> upon

>> >> request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such

>> unredacted

>> >> WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were

>> rejected

>> >> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved

>> policy

>> >> was cited as the basis for the denial.

>> >>

>> >> At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate

>> explanation

>> >> for

>> >> this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be

>> >> granted at long last. Certain portions of my research cannot be

>> completed

>> >> without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis

>> >> for

>> >> the rejection of such requests.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> P.P.S. As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the

>> >> numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place. I feel

>> >> compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been

>> >> double-victimized in at least two specific instances.

>> >>

>> >> First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large

>> IPv4

>> >> blocks "liberated" from its free pool. Secondarily and even more

>> >> insultingly

>> >> however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also

>> >> arranged

>> >> to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be

>> associated

>> >> with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other

>> >> legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired

>> IPv4

>> >> allocations.

>> >>

>> >> I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15

>> block,

>> >> registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the

>> >> non-legacy

>> >> 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.

>> >> These

>> >> blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six

>> million

>> >> U.S. dollars.

>> >>

>> >> As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD

>> >> mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as

>> MEMBER-ONLY,

>> >> as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any

>> >> actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to

>> >> AFRINIC.

>> >>

>> >> I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this

>> >> regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it

>> does

>> >> appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have

>> -both-

>> >> stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years

>> >> on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be

>> due

>> >> on these IPv4 assignments.

>> >>

>> >> Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further

>> >> clarification

>> >> with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been

>> >> collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned,

>> for

>> >> any year since their allocation to and association with the

>> organizations

>> >> noted.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 11

>> >> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 17:24:26 -0800

>> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

>> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <19435.1575595466 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>> >>

>> >> In message <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>,

>> >> Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com> wrote:

>> >>

>> >> >I know what sparked this story.

>> >>

>> >> If you have something to say, then you have our attention and the

>> floor.

>> >> Please proceed.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Regards,

>> >> rfg

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 12

>> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 10:04:06 +0100

>> >> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>

>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>> >>

>> >> Hi Sunday, all,

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let

>> me

>> >> tell why.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My

>> first

>> >> AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly after,

>> >> during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could contribute

>> to

>> >> the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and joining Ernest

>> in his

>> >> trips to do the Registration Services training so I do IPv6 trainings.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos, I

>> >> was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the Madrid

>> >> Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from Sunday, I

>> could

>> >> resolve that on the next day and flight again to do the training.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,

>> >> and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been

>> doing

>> >> those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been able to

>> take

>> >> advantage of that.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as

>> well

>> >> as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much

>> together,

>> >> you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost 15 years.

>> Of

>> >> course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a hidden face.

>> As

>> >> humans, we all have positive and negative things. But I?m really

>> shocked, I

>> >> still resist to believe it.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the position

>> >> of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use

>> >> your own name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe

>> >> someone,? may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to

>> >> appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly and

>> >> non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean he

>> is

>> >> still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or

>> something

>> >> similar.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents.

>> If

>> >> you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,

>> and

>> >> may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and

>> >> involvement an all this.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal interest.

>> >> My only interest is to know the *real true* and I?m sure everybody

>> agrees

>> >> on that.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so

>> no

>> >> doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very

>> >> thankful for that.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Regards,

>> >>

>> >> Jordi

>> >>

>> >> @jordipalet

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com> escribi?:

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway

>> suggest

>> >> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy

>> >> space.

>> >>

>> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal

>> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

>> done.

>> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

>> established,

>> >> the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for

>> >> their deeds.

>> >>

>> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

>> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7

>> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to

>> discover

>> >> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active

>> use,

>> >> why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the

>> >> common good?

>> >>

>> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal

>> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by

>> now.

>> >>

>> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf

>> of

>> >> the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,

>> with

>> >> the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather

>> >> apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for

>> >> developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and

>> >> intellect.

>> >>

>> >> Sunday.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:

>> >>

>> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to

>> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

>> and

>> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

>> space

>> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and

>> then

>> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current

>> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those

>> processes

>> >> may not have the desired outcome.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Mike

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >>

>> >> Mark.

>> >>

>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >>

>> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

>> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>> >>

>> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how

>> to

>> >> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>> >>

>> >> Thanks.

>> >>

>> >> Sunday.

>> >>

>> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following

>> >> news story.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I

>> >> only

>> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> Vermeulen

>> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> >> Regards,

>> >> rfg

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> --

>> >> --------------------------------------------------

>> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan

>> >> Managing Director

>> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

>> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

>> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

>> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com

>> >> ---------------------------------------------------

>> >> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss

>> mailing

>> >> list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> **********************************************

>> >> IPv4 is over

>> >> Are you ready for the new Internet ?

>> >> http://www.theipv6company.com

>> >> The IPv6 Company

>> >>

>> >> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or

>> >> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use

>> of

>> >> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized

>> >> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this

>> >> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly

>> >> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not

>> the

>> >> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution

>> or

>> >> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including

>> >> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal

>> >> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this

>> >> communication and delete it.

>> >>

>> >> -------------- next part --------------

>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

>> >> URL: <

>> >>

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/e007b6dd/attachment-0001.html

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 13

>> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:16:03 +0100

>> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>

>> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>, General Discussions

>> >> of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

>> >>

>> >> Dear Mr Guilmette,

>> >>

>> >> Regrettably, I do not monitor the press, but selected channels such as

>> >> this list. It seems I got your attention, or you got my attention, or

>> we

>> >> both got each other's attention. Let us therefore maximize the

>> possession.

>> >>

>> >> Important and interesting questions, that you have raised in this

>> email.

>> >> Let us put some punch in it. Kindly change the TO: field to

>> >> ceo at afrinic.net, and cc the Community just to make sure it is not

>> >> ignored, then resend it. I am sure the CEO will answer all the

>> questions

>> >> you here posed to me. Pity he has to start his tenure with these hard

>> >> nuts and curveballs, but he is capable. He speaks for the Company, not

>> me.

>> >>

>> >> I am equally sure that the Community appreciates the great work done,

>> >> and no one supports the exposed fraud. You are a stakeholder, and not

>> >> some casual bystander so please note this. What you conveniently

>> >> ignored, is that the #1 accused company insider is the eye of the

>> >> company on the policy lists, where you raised the issues.

>> >>

>> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should

>> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more

>> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking

>> stakeholder.

>> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.

>> >>

>> >> My use of the term "Whistleblowers" is appropriate, as I looked at one

>> >> of your reference links, and indeed, someone confirmed to you privately

>> >> that your hunch is right. If you do not claim the honour, they should,

>> >> because you rightly built on their work!

>> >>

>> >> Great job you are doing.

>> >>

>> >> Have a great day.

>> >>

>> >> Sunday.

>> >>

>> >> On 05/12/2019 23:44, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >> > In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,

>> >> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal

>> >> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get

>> things

>> >> >> done.

>> >> > Mr. Folayan,

>> >> >

>> >> > These matters were first brought to light in the press on September

>> 1,

>> >> > 2019, a full three months ago. Since that time there has not been a

>> >> > single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting

>> CEO,

>> >> > or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague

>> >> assurances

>> >> > that these matters are being looked into.

>> >> >

>> >> > Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns

>> >> > about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full

>> >> > three years ago.

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html

>> >> >

>> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html

>> >> >

>> >> > I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again

>> >> > repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,

>> >> > albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention

>> >> > paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any

>> >> > concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html

>> >> >

>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html

>> >> >

>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html

>> >> >

>> >> > At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly

>> >> > in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive

>> >> > issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to

>> >> > entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it

>> >> > were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the

>> >> > courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za. Neither the board nor

>> >> > the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any

>> >> > clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will

>> >> > either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various

>> stakeholders

>> >> > and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive

>> >> > any of the findings that it may reach. And yet despite having had

>> >> > either three full months or three full years to look into these

>> >> > matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and

>> >> > despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming

>> >> > from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel

>> patience.

>> >> >

>> >> > This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the

>> >> > community's patience to come to an end? Does the community have any

>> >> > assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another

>> >> > three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield

>> >> > anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the

>> >> > current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of

>> millions

>> >> > of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?

>> >> >

>> >> > On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at

>> >> long

>> >> > last be forthcoming?

>> >> >

>> >> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

>> >> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand

>> >> >> accountable for their deeds.

>> >> > This assertion on your part begs four further questions:

>> >> >

>> >> > 1) Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been

>> presented

>> >> > in the MyBroadband.co.za article, the majority of which were drawn

>> from

>> >> > publicly available sources including open government records, what

>> more

>> >> > will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and

>> >> intentions

>> >> > are established"? What parts of the abundant documentary evidence

>> >> already

>> >> > presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?

>> >> >

>> >> > 2) If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za article, it can be

>> >> persuasively

>> >> > demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in

>> >> fact

>> >> > purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that

>> AFRINIC

>> >> > itself is one of the aggrieved parties? And if so, would you hope

>> and

>> >> > expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any

>> and

>> >> > all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?

>> >> >

>> >> > 3) Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and

>> >> endemic

>> >> > within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do

>> >> you

>> >> > have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at

>> all

>> >> > likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?

>> >> >

>> >> > 4) What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those

>> well-

>> >> > documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks

>> from

>> >> > AFRINIC's own free pool? Should these blocks be immediately

>> reclaimed

>> >> by

>> >> > AFRINIC? Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever

>> >> they

>> >> > may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten

>> booty

>> >> > on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?

>> >> >

>> >> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

>> >> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards

>> of 7

>> >> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to

>> >> discover

>> >> >> the manipulations.

>> >> > On this point, you and I are in complete agreement. "The system",

>> such

>> >> > as it is, is quite self-evidently broken. But this raises the

>> further

>> >> > question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at

>> >> AFRINIC,

>> >> > while all of this was going on. Is it even plausible that a single

>> bad

>> >> > actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million

>> dollars

>> >> > worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a

>> >> > several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC

>> >> > staff even noticed any of this?

>> >> >

>> >> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their

>> legal

>> >> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto

>> by

>> >> now.

>> >> > See above. Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced

>> with

>> >> > respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself. No other

>> >> > single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much

>> >> > valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself. And yet we have, as yet, no

>> >> > clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any

>> staff

>> >> > member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let

>> alone

>> >> > that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated

>> >> > by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.

>> >> >

>> >> > If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new

>> dictionary.

>> >> >

>> >> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on

>> behalf

>> >> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system

>> here,

>> >> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should

>> >> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are

>> >> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of

>> >> our

>> >> >> time and intellect.

>> >> > See above. With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where

>> we

>> >> > may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"? I

>> >> have

>> >> > so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in

>> any

>> >> > document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member

>> of

>> >> > AFRINIC. In fact, quite the opposite. I see that a purported three

>> >> > month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth

>> publicly

>> >> > reporting on so far. I see an attempt to shift the blame for this

>> >> colossal

>> >> > and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block

>> holders

>> >> > while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of

>> >> > AFRINIC itself. I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action

>> >> > will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a

>> >> > backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a

>> general

>> >> > disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific

>> >> > national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this

>> case.

>> >> >

>> >> > For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances

>> misplaced,

>> >> > Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.

>> >> > The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign

>> and

>> >> > to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or

>> >> placed

>> >> > under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to

>> >> all.

>> >> > AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding

>> >> responsibility.

>> >> >

>> >> > I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and

>> effectively

>> >> > remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still

>> ongoing

>> >> > after-effects. I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the

>> now

>> >> > evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the

>> >> carpet

>> >> > will no longer be considered a vialble option.

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > Regards,

>> >> > rfg

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > P.S. I must strenuously object to your use of the word

>> "whistleblower"

>> >> in

>> >> > this context Mr. Folayan. That term is usually used in reference to

>> >> some

>> >> > insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed

>> >> > first-hand some malfeasance. Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this

>> >> > description. Rather, we have labored as outsiders only. We have not

>> >> > been privy to any "inside" information. Quite the opposite in

>> fact. We

>> >> > have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable

>> requests

>> >> > for information by AFRINIC staff.

>> >> >

>> >> > Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our

>> >> reasonable

>> >> > requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.

>> >> Exactly

>> >> > such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four

>> other

>> >> > Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists

>> >> upon

>> >> > request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such

>> >> unredacted

>> >> > WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were

>> >> rejected

>> >> > out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved

>> >> policy

>> >> > was cited as the basis for the denial.

>> >> >

>> >> > At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate

>> >> explanation for

>> >> > this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to

>> be

>> >> > granted at long last. Certain portions of my research cannot be

>> >> completed

>> >> > without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved

>> basis

>> >> for

>> >> > the rejection of such requests.

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > P.P.S. As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of

>> the

>> >> > numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place. I feel

>> >> > compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively

>> been

>> >> > double-victimized in at least two specific instances.

>> >> >

>> >> > First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large

>> IPv4

>> >> > blocks "liberated" from its free pool. Secondarily and even more

>> >> insultingly

>> >> > however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also

>> >> arranged

>> >> > to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be

>> >> associated

>> >> > with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all

>> other

>> >> > legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired

>> IPv4

>> >> > allocations.

>> >> >

>> >> > I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15

>> >> block,

>> >> > registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the

>> >> non-legacy

>> >> > 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC

>> organization.

>> >> These

>> >> > blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six

>> >> million

>> >> > U.S. dollars.

>> >> >

>> >> > As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the

>> RPD

>> >> > mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as

>> >> MEMBER-ONLY,

>> >> > as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold

>> any

>> >> > actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees

>> to

>> >> > AFRINIC.

>> >> >

>> >> > I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in

>> this

>> >> > regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it

>> >> does

>> >> > appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have

>> -both-

>> >> > stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for

>> years

>> >> > on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be

>> >> due

>> >> > on these IPv4 assignments.

>> >> >

>> >> > Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further

>> >> clarification

>> >> > with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have

>> been

>> >> > collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned,

>> for

>> >> > any year since their allocation to and association with the

>> >> organizations

>> >> > noted.

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >>

>> >> --

>> >> --------------------------------------------------

>> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan

>> >> Managing Director

>> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

>> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

>> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

>> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com

>> >> ---------------------------------------------------

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 14

>> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:07:01 -0800

>> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <21084.1575626821 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>> >>

>> >> Mr. Folayan,

>> >>

>> >> Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful

>> response.

>> >>

>> >> At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and

>> beyond

>> >> what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,

>> >> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

>> >>

>> >> >I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should

>> >> >conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more

>> >> >honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking

>> stakeholder.

>> >> >It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.

>> >>

>> >> Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.

>> >>

>> >> Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to

>> see

>> >> the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC. That is quite certainly not a

>> >> goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as

>> >> you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder

>> >> should wish for. AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global

>> >> Internet governance. I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.

>> >> No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a

>> >> few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second. And to use an

>> >> even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing

>> >> smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than

>> >> I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.

>> >>

>> >> If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being

>> >> formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested

>> >> that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already

>> >> sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it,

>> being

>> >> preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere. Now I may stand on the comfortable

>> >> shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but

>> >> I do not question the utility of the journey.

>> >>

>> >> The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters

>> >> of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose. Time will

>> >> tell if that is an accurate assesment.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Regards,

>> >> rfg

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 15

>> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:14:31 +0100

>> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>

>> >> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>, General

>> >> Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed at gmail.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

>> >>

>> >> Good points Jordi, and thanks for the throwback on the very many

>> amazing

>> >> sacrifices we all made, to grow the Internet in Africa.

>> >>

>> >> I will resist asking Ernest to defend himself here, We are not

>> >> constituted as a competent jury, neither do we want to compromise the

>> >> ongoing investigations.

>> >>

>> >> Questions are appropriate, so will be his own admissions or rebuttals,

>> >> when the investigations are completed.

>> >>

>> >> I may be wrong, but that is my own expectations and position.

>> >>

>> >> Sunday.

>> >>

>> >> On 06/12/2019 10:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > Hi Sunday, all,

>> >> >

>> >> > I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article.

>> Let

>> >> > me tell why.

>> >> >

>> >> > I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My

>> >> > first AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and

>> shortly

>> >> > after, during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could

>> >> > contribute to the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and

>> >> > joining Ernest in his trips to do the Registration Services training

>> >> > so I do IPv6 trainings.

>> >> >

>> >> > Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos,

>> >> > I was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the

>> >> > Madrid Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from

>> >> > Sunday, I could resolve that on the next day and flight again to do

>> >> > the training.

>> >> >

>> >> > My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing

>> that,

>> >> > and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been

>> >> > doing those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been

>> >> > able to take advantage of that.

>> >> >

>> >> > The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as

>> >> > well as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much

>> >> > together, you get to know people, and we are talking here about

>> almost

>> >> > 15 years. Of course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have

>> a

>> >> > hidden face. As humans, we all have positive and negative things. But

>> >> > I?m really shocked, I still resist to believe it.

>> >> >

>> >> > I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the

>> >> > position of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think

>> >> > you will use your own name for registering companies, or instead you

>> >> > will bribe someone, may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your

>> >> > family name to appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly

>> >> > and non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t

>> mean

>> >> > he is still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or

>> >> > something similar.

>> >> >

>> >> > Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents.

>> >> > If you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be

>> enough.

>> >> >

>> >> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,

>> >> > and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes

>> and

>> >> > involvement an all this.

>> >> >

>> >> > Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal

>> >> > interest. My only interest is to know the **real true** and I?m sure

>> >> > everybody agrees on that.

>> >> >

>> >> > Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so

>> >> > no doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and

>> very

>> >> > thankful for that.

>> >> >

>> >> > Regards,

>> >> >

>> >> > Jordi

>> >> >

>> >> > @jordipalet

>> >> >

>> >> > El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com

>> >> > <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> escribi?:

>> >> >

>> >> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway

>> >> > suggest that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only

>> >> > on legacy space.

>> >> >

>> >> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal

>> >> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

>> >> > done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

>> >> > established, the law should take its course and people should stand

>> >> > accountable for their deeds.

>> >> >

>> >> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

>> >> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of

>> >> > 7 years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to

>> >> > discover the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or

>> >> > in active use, why would or should they not have been returned to the

>> >> > Registry for the common good?

>> >> >

>> >> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their

>> >> > legal department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with

>> >> > gusto by now.

>> >> >

>> >> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on

>> behalf

>> >> > of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system

>> here,

>> >> > with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should

>> >> > rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are

>> >> > available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of

>> >> > our time and intellect.

>> >> >

>> >> > Sunday.

>> >> >

>> >> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there

>> >> > appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy

>> >> > space.

>> >> >

>> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the

>> >> > problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space

>> issue.

>> >> >

>> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on

>> how

>> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been

>> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of

>> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then

>> >> > moving legacy space under those processes may not have the

>> desired

>> >> > outcome.

>> >> >

>> >> > Mike

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu

>> >> > <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >> >

>> >> > Mark.

>> >> >

>> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues,

>> specifically

>> >> > ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet

>> >> > in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces

>> >> > under some form of RSA?

>> >> >

>> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and

>> let

>> >> > us see how to help and empower the people doing useful

>> >> > work for Africa.

>> >> >

>> >> > Thanks.

>> >> >

>> >> > Sunday.

>> >> >

>> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think

>> >> > about the following

>> >> > news story.

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >> >

>> >> > ? I will have more to say about this in due course.?

>> >> > For the moment, I only

>> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by

>> >> > myself and Jan Vermeulen

>> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably

>> involved.

>> >> > ? ? Regards,

>> >> > rfg

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> >

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> >

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> >

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:

>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> >

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >> > --

>> >> > --------------------------------------------------

>> >> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan

>> >> > Managing Director

>> >> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

>> >> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

>> >> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

>> >> > Email:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>,

>> >> sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>

>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss

>> >> > mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > **********************************************

>> >> > IPv4 is over

>> >> > Are you ready for the new Internet ?

>> >> > http://www.theipv6company.com

>> >> > The IPv6 Company

>> >> >

>> >> > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged

>> >> > or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive

>> >> > use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty

>> >> > authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents

>> of

>> >> > this information, even if partially, including attached files, is

>> >> > strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you

>> >> > are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,

>> >> > distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if

>> >> > partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be

>> >> > considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original

>> >> > sender to inform about this communication and delete it.

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >>

>> >> --

>> >> --------------------------------------------------

>> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan

>> >> Managing Director

>> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

>> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

>> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

>> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com

>> >> ---------------------------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> -------------- next part --------------

>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

>> >> URL: <

>> >>

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/8c6c63d5/attachment-0001.html

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 16

>> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 12:17:52 +0200

>> >> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>

>> >> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>

>> >> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> > On 6 Dec 2019, at 11:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <

>> >> community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,

>> >> and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and

>> >> involvement an all this.

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> :-) Might as well setup a confession booth and provide absolution of

>> >> souls. On a serious note, we need a proper investigation. Let?s wait

>> to

>> >> hear from the CEO

>> >>

>> >> Omo

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> -------------- next part --------------

>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

>> >> URL: <

>> >>

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/4e0f75fc/attachment-0001.html

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 17

>> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:21:40 +0100

>> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>

>> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>, General Discussions

>> >> of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10 at gmail.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

>> >>

>> >> Dear Mr Guilmette,

>> >>

>> >> On 06/12/2019 11:07, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >> > Mr. Folayan,

>> >> >

>> >> > Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful

>> >> response.

>> >> >

>> >> > At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and

>> beyond

>> >> > what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,

>> >> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we

>> should

>> >> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much

>> more

>> >> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking

>> >> stakeholder.

>> >> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.

>> >> > Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.

>> >> >

>> >> > Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to

>> see

>> >> > the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC. That is quite certainly not

>> a

>> >> > goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as

>> >> > you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder

>> >> > should wish for. AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global

>> >> > Internet governance. I cannot even envision things as being

>> otherwise.

>> >> > No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of

>> a

>> >> > few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second. And to use an

>> >> > even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing

>> >> > smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more

>> than

>> >> > I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the

>> plains.

>> >> >

>> >> > If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was

>> being

>> >> > formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested

>> >> > that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already

>> >> > sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it,

>> being

>> >> > preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere. Now I may stand on the comfortable

>> >> > shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel,

>> but

>> >> > I do not question the utility of the journey.

>> >> >

>> >> > The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think,

>> matters

>> >> > of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose. Time

>> will

>> >> > tell if that is an accurate assesment.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> This is most assuring and comforting at the same time.

>> >>

>> >> If I have sounded off-key, please accept my sincere apologies, and

>> thank

>> >> you very much for the good job you have done for the community so far.

>> >> History will never forget your role and progressive disposition at this

>> >> point in time.

>> >>

>> >> When AfriNIC was being formed, the challenges of today, were not

>> >> envisioned in the very many ways that they now present themselves.

>> >> Africa has come a long way. Unfortunately, there are still many more

>> >> oceans to cross, but we will all band together as a purposeful fleet.

>> >> That is how we can all weather the storms that may come, but sure they

>> >> will come.

>> >>

>> >> With kind Regards ...

>> >>

>> >> Sunday.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 18

>> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:58:27 -0800

>> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <21283.1575629907 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>> >>

>> >> In message <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>,

>> >> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:

>> >>

>> >> >I also believe that he is a smart guy.

>> >>

>> >> I would not dispute that characterization in the slightest.

>> >>

>> >> >So, put yourself in the position of

>> >> >a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use

>> >> your o

>> >> >wn name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe

>> >> someone,=C2=A0

>> >> > may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear

>> in

>> >> an

>> >> >y documents? I feel this is really silly and non-understandable.

>> >>

>> >> And yet it seemed to work, for years on end, with no one raising so

>> much

>> >> as an eyebrow because nobody seriously investigated or seriously looked

>> >> at all of the relevant corporate documents and WHOIS records and, in

>> >> particular, the historical WHOIS records, including but not limited to

>> >> these ones:

>> >>

>> >> ORG-AI2-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD

>> >> ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB

>> >> ORG-IA41-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP

>> >> ORG-ZZ139-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW

>> >> ORG-ZZ23-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N

>> >>

>> >> I have been chasing down miscreants on the Internet for more than 20

>> years

>> >> now. One of the lessons I have learned in that time is that none of

>> them

>> >> are ten feet tall, and the majority of them absolutely suck at OPSEC.

>> It

>> >> is almost as if some part of them is deluding their own brains into the

>> >> false belief that what they are doing is not really wrong, in some

>> >> sense, and that they are somehow actually entitled to the stuff they

>> are

>> >> stealing, and that thus, at some level, they don't actually need to

>> hide

>> >> what they are doing all that throughly, because just as White House

>> Chief

>> >> of Staff Mick Mulvaney did not long ago... much to the shock of

>> >> everyone...

>> >> if they are ever caught and confronted they assume that they will just

>> say

>> >> "Yea. So? We do that all of the time. Get over it!"

>> >>

>> >> >So maybe

>> >> >somebody used him, which doesn=E2=80=99t mean he is still guilty

>> >> =E2=80=9Cin

>> >> >vigilando=E2=80=9D because he trusted anyone else, or something

>> similar.

>> >>

>> >> It's a nice thought, and you are a generous person to allow this

>> >> possibility

>> >> Jordi. All I can say is that other information, not yet made public,

>> >> appears to rule out the possibility that Mr. Byaruhanga was either an

>> >> unwitting stooge or a convenient fall guy.

>> >>

>> >> >Do we believe in =E2=80=9Cpresumption of innocence=E2=80=9D? I do,

>> >> despite

>> >> >documents. If you don=E2=80=99t know the complete background,

>> documents

>> >> may

>> >> >not be enough.

>> >>

>> >> I agree.

>> >>

>> >> That having been said, I hope that you will, as I have, spend some time

>> >> carefully scrutinizing both the current and historical WHOIS records

>> >> associated with the ORGanizations and the IPv4 blocks listed in the two

>> >> tables in Jan's article. If you do that, I think that you will be, as

>> >> I was, hard pressed to explain all of the quite glaring anomalies in

>> >> any way that does not involve a great deal of very deliberate

>> malfesance

>> >> on somebody's part. Once you are convinced of that, then the question

>> >> becomes: Who is responsible? And it is at that point that the various

>> >> official governmental corporate registration records would seem to

>> become

>> >> very relevant.

>> >>

>> >> >So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,

>> and

>> >> >may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and

>> >> involvement

>> >> >an all this.

>> >>

>> >> I would like to echo that sentiment.

>> >>

>> >> Jan Vermeulen and myself have tried, repeatedly, and over some

>> significant

>> >> time now to reach him, both via voice, at a number of different phone

>> >> numbers

>> >> that we have identified as being associated with him, and also via

>> email,

>> >> at various of his known email addresses, and we have been utterly

>> unable

>> >> to

>> >> do so. We both very much look forward to speaking with him and getting

>> >> his

>> >> side of the story, if he has one.

>> >>

>> >> That having been said, we cannot be blamed, I think, for reaching

>> certain

>> >> reasonable conclusions when Jan's industry sources informed him, less

>> than

>> >> a day after I had attempted to confront Ernest, via email, with the

>> facts

>> >> arrayed against him, that he had abruptly resigned his position at

>> AFRINIC

>> >> after 15 years on the job.

>> >>

>> >> His abrupt resignation was and remains his only apparent response to

>> our

>> >> inquiries.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Regards,

>> >> rfg

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 19

>> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 03:16:57 -0800

>> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <21648.1575631017 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>> >>

>> >> In message <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>,

>> >> Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> wrote:

>> >>

>> >> >On a serious note, we need a proper investigation. Let's

>> >> >wait to hear from the CEO

>> >>

>> >> Have any of us been doing otherwise, for lo these past three months

>> now?

>> >>

>> >> Have we been afforded any other choice in the matter?

>> >>

>> >> Can AFRINIC clean its own stables?

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Regards,

>> >> rfg

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Subject: Digest Footer

>> >>

>> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1

>> >> *************************************************

>> >>

>> >

>> >

>> > --

>> > *Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb*

>> > *muyiwacaleb at gmail.com <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>*

>> > *234 - 8077377378*

>> > *234 - 07030777969*

>> > _______________________________________________

>> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >

>> -------------- next part --------------

>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

>> URL: <

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191210/5dbbab9c/attachment-0001.html

>> >

>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 2

>> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:56:27 +0000

>> From: Arnaud AMELINA <amelnaud at gmail.com>

>> To: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>

>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>,

>> Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>

>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547,

>> Issue 1

>> Message-ID:

>> <CAGDMR_cw7qBFFC=jd60noD=

>> DPAgiPwY1ozQCaG77Ax29ELZikA at mail.gmail.com>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>>

>> Hi Community,

>>

>> Policy or not, will not prevent AFRINIC from reviewing resources if

>> complaints provide enough evidences. We just saw allegations/complaints

>> in press which trigger reviews.

>> The review policy proposal is intended to provide community approved ways

>> of reviews for fairness, transparency. Lack of community approved review

>> policy may have led to media complaint induced review.

>>

>> Regards

>>

>> --

>> Arnaud

>>

>> Le dim. 8 d?c. 2019 ? 18:50, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> a ?crit :

>>

>> >

>> >

>> > policy or not will not prevent afrinic from reviewing resources if

>> > complaints provide enough evidences. We just saw

>> allegations/complaints

>> > in press which trigger reviews.

>> >

>> > The review policy proposal is intended to provide community approved

>> ways

>> > of reviews for fairness, transparency. Lack of community approved

>> review

>> > policy may have led to media complaint induced reviewOn Dec 6, 2019, at

>> > 07:46 , Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com> wrote:

>> >

>> > Dear Ronald,

>> >

>> > So I read where this comment below was attributed to you.

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > *>?Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our

>> > reasonable> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS

>> > database. Exactly> such unredacted database dumps *are* provided by

>> all of

>> > the four other> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers

>> and

>> > journalists upon> request. When we submitted repeated requests for

>> exactly

>> > such unredacted> WHOIS database dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our

>> > requests were rejected> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any

>> > community-approved policy> was cited as the basis for the denial.?*

>> > While not taking brief for AFRINIC or any of its staff, I feel you

>> should

>> > know that AFRINIC?s operation is also being governed by Mauritius data

>> > protection law.

>> > Mauritius regulates data protection under the Data Protection Act 2017

>> > (DPA 2017 or Act), proclaimed through Proclamation No. 3 of 2018,

>> effective

>> > January 15, 2018. The Act repeals and replaces the Data Protection Act

>> > 2004, so as to align with the European Union General Data Protection

>> > Regulation 2016/679 (GDPR).

>> >

>> > Even if you are not familiar with Mauritius law, the EU GDPR which is

>> more

>> > popular should tell you the implication of revealing a WHOIS database

>> to a

>> > non-state prosecutorial actor like yourself who does not have a court

>> > warrant to see the redacted sections you seek. Please correct me if I?m

>> > wrong in my legal analysis of your request.

>> >

>> >

>> > Whois is data that is published generally, so your comments here about

>> DPR

>> > don?t really apply.

>> >

>> > Such WHOIS dumps are available from RIPE, so I don?t think it is a GDPR

>> > issue at all.

>> >

>> > Perhaps, isn?t it time for the community to revisit the Internet Number

>> > Resources review policy

>> > <https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal> which was not

>> > on the docket for policy at this just-concluded meeting?

>> > https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal

>> >

>> >

>> > No? The resource review policy would do absolutely nothing to help here.

>> >

>> > We might be doing something right this time if that policy will allow

>> for

>> > a diligent review of resources including the legacy ones.

>> >

>> >

>> > That policy does not provide for any review that AfriNIC cannot

>> currently

>> > do. All it does is provide a vector for a unique form of Denial Of

>> Service

>> > attack against larger organizations in the form of a complaint-induced

>> > resource review.

>> >

>> > Let us please not conflate this issue with an utterly and completely

>> > unrelated policy effort aimed at weaponizing AfriNIC to allow one

>> subset of

>> > the membership to attack another.

>> >

>> > Owen

>> >

>> >

>> > Regards

>> >

>> > Caleb Ogundele

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 12:17 PM <community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>

>> > wrote:

>> >

>> >> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to

>> >> community-discuss at afrinic.net

>> >>

>> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

>> >> community-discuss-request at afrinic.net

>> >>

>> >> You can reach the person managing the list at

>> >> community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net

>> >>

>> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific

>> >> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Today's Topics:

>> >>

>> >> 1. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)

>> >> 2. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mike Silber)

>> >> 3. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Elkins)

>> >> 4. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Andrew Alston)

>> >> 5. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)

>> >> 6. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)

>> >> 7. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)

>> >> 8. [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC (Sylvain Baya)

>> >> 9. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Isabel Odida)

>> >> 10. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)

>> >> 11. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)

>> >> 12. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)

>> >> 13. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)

>> >> 14. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)

>> >> 15. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)

>> >> 16. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)

>> >> 17. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)

>> >> 18. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)

>> >> 19. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 1

>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:27:42 +0200

>> >> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>

>> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16 at seacom.mu>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>> >>

>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >>

>> >> Mark.

>> >>

>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

>> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>> >> >

>> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how

>> >> > to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>> >> >

>> >> > Thanks.

>> >> >

>> >> > Sunday.

>> >> >

>> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

>> following

>> >> >> news story.

>> >> >>

>> >> >>

>> >>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >> >>

>> >> >> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the moment,

>> >> >> I only

>> >> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> >> >> Vermeulen

>> >> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> >> >> ? ? Regards,

>> >> >> rfg

>> >> >>

>> >> >>

>> >> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >>

>> >>

>> >> -------------- next part --------------

>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

>> >> URL: <

>> >>

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/7f6aa1b8/attachment-0001.html

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 2

>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:46:15 +0200

>> >> From: Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com>

>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3 at gmail.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>> >>

>> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to

>> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

>> >>

>> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

>> and

>> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

>> >>

>> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

>> space

>> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and

>> then

>> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current

>> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those

>> processes

>> >> may not have the desired outcome.

>> >>

>> >> Mike

>> >>

>> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >> >

>> >> > Mark.

>> >> >

>> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

>> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>> >> >>

>> >> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see

>> how

>> >> to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Thanks.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Sunday.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >> >>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

>> >> following

>> >> >>> news story.

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>>

>> >>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >> <

>> >>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >

>> >>

>> >> >>> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the

>> moment,

>> >> I only

>> >> >>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> >> Vermeulen

>> >> >>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> >> >>> Regards,

>> >> >>> rfg

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>> _______________________________________________

>> >> >>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:

>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>

>> >> >>>

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >>

>> >> -------------- next part --------------

>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

>> >> URL: <

>> >>

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/1d4a9dec/attachment-0001.html

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 3

>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:59:57 +0200

>> >> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>

>> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f at posix.co.za>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

>> >>

>> >> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to

>> >> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case

>> (looting

>> >> of non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.

>> >>

>> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:

>> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears

>> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

>> >> >

>> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

>> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

>> >> >

>> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

>> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been

>> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of

>> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving

>> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.

>> >> >

>> >> > Mike

>> >> >

>> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu

>> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Mark.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa,

>> AfriNIC

>> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see

>> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>> Thanks.

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>> Sunday.

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

>> >> >>>> following

>> >> >>>> news story.

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>>

>> >>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the

>> >> >>>> moment, I only

>> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> >> >>>> Vermeulen

>> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,

>> >> >>>> rfg

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________

>> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>

>> >> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >

>> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> --

>> >>

>> >> Mark James ELKINS? -? Posix Systems - (South) Africa

>> >> mje at posix.co.za???? <http://mje@posix.co.za/????>?? Tel:

>> +27.826010496 <

>> >> tel:+27826010496 <+27826010496>>

>> >> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za

>> >>

>> >> Posix SystemsVCARD for MJ Elkins

>> >>

>> >> -------------- next part --------------

>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

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>> >>

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>> >> >

>> >> -------------- next part --------------

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>> >>

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>> >> >

>> >> -------------- next part --------------

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>> >>

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>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 4

>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:10:48 +0000

>> >> From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>

>> >> To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>,

>> >> "community-discuss at afrinic.net" <community-discuss at afrinic.net

>> >

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID:

>> >> <

>> >>

>> DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0 at DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

>> >>

>> >> I would be very curious to hear from a legal perspective what - if any

>> -

>> >> legal liability AfriNIC has in a situation like this.

>> >>

>> >> The fact is - space has value - and if space is stolen - used for spam

>> or

>> >> whatever else - and the reputation of said space is damaged - it?s

>> value

>> >> decreases. Now I fully realize that space can be hijacked - and at

>> that

>> >> point potentially the hijackers may hold the liability. However - when

>> the

>> >> space seems to have been stolen and sold off by a staff member of the

>> >> organization that is meant in effect to the curator of the space - I

>> >> question if there is not a liability issue at play if it can be proven

>> that

>> >> due care was not taken to safe guard against the actions taken.

>> >>

>> >> I?m no lawyer though so I would really be interested to know the legal

>> >> perspective - can an rir be held liable to the actions of its staff if

>> it

>> >> did not adequately protect against the actions taken.

>> >>

>> >> Andrew

>> >>

>> >> Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

>> >> ________________________________

>> >> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>

>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 3:59:57 PM

>> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to

>> >> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case

>> (looting of

>> >> non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.

>> >>

>> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:

>> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to

>> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

>> >>

>> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

>> and

>> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

>> >>

>> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

>> space

>> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and

>> then

>> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current

>> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those

>> processes

>> >> may not have the desired outcome.

>> >>

>> >> Mike

>> >>

>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu<mailto:

>> >> mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:

>> >>

>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >>

>> >> Mark.

>> >>

>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

>> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>> >>

>> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how

>> to

>> >> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>> >>

>> >> Thanks.

>> >>

>> >> Sunday.

>> >>

>> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following

>> >> news story.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >> <

>> >>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >> >

>> >> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I

>> >> only

>> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> Vermeulen

>> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> >> Regards,

>> >> rfg

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> --

>> >>

>> >> Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa

>> >> mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za> Tel: +27.826010496<

>> >> tel:+27826010496 <+27826010496>>

>> >> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za<

>> >> https://ftth.posix.co.za>

>> >>

>> >> [Posix Systems][VCARD for MJ Elkins]

>> >> -------------- next part --------------

>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

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>> >>

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>> >> >

>> >> -------------- next part --------------

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>> >>

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/24fff2bc/attachment-0001.jpg

>> >> >

>> >> -------------- next part --------------

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>> >>

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/24fff2bc/attachment-0001.png

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 5

>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:11:04 +0200

>> >> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>

>> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17 at seacom.mu>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>> >>

>> >> I don't disagree with that either.

>> >>

>> >> I am certain AFRINIC are working on this, and I know there will be no

>> >> shortage of queries about this from the field, much to our

>> >> already-clogged e-mail boxes. I don't want to do the jobs of others; no

>> >> one is doing mine for me.

>> >>

>> >> My preferred current focus - your last paragraph, below.

>> >>

>> >> Mark.

>> >>

>> >> On 5/Dec/19 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:

>> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears

>> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

>> >> >

>> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

>> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

>> >> >

>> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

>> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been

>> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of

>> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving

>> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.?

>> >> >

>> >> > Mike

>> >> >

>> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu

>> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Mark.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa,

>> AfriNIC

>> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see

>> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>> Thanks.

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>> Sunday.

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

>> >> >>>> following

>> >> >>>> news story.

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>>

>> >>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the

>> >> >>>> moment, I only

>> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> >> >>>> Vermeulen

>> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,

>> >> >>>> rfg

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________

>> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>

>> >> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >

>> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> -------------- next part --------------

>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

>> >> URL: <

>> >>

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/c8c491fa/attachment-0001.html

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 6

>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:54:21 +0100

>> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>

>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"

>> >>

>> >> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway

>> suggest

>> >> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy

>> >> space.

>> >>

>> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal

>> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

>> >> done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

>> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand

>> >> accountable for their deeds.

>> >>

>> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

>> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7

>> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to

>> discover

>> >> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active

>> >> use, why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry

>> for

>> >> the common good?

>> >>

>> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal

>> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by

>> now.

>> >>

>> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf

>> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,

>> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should

>> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are

>> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of

>> our

>> >> time and intellect.

>> >>

>> >> Sunday.

>> >>

>> >> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:

>> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears

>> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

>> >> >

>> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

>> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

>> >> >

>> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

>> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been

>> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of

>> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving

>> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.

>> >> >

>> >> > Mike

>> >> >

>> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu

>> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Mark.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa,

>> AfriNIC

>> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see

>> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>> Thanks.

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>> Sunday.

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

>> >> >>>> following

>> >> >>>> news story.

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>>

>> >>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the

>> >> >>>> moment, I only

>> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> >> >>>> Vermeulen

>> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,

>> >> >>>> rfg

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________

>> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>

>> >> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >

>> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >>

>> >> --

>> >> --------------------------------------------------

>> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan

>> >> Managing Director

>> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

>> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

>> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

>> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com

>> >> ---------------------------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> -------------- next part --------------

>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

>> >> URL: <

>> >>

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/118317f5/attachment-0001.html

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 7

>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:15:59 +0200

>> >> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>

>> >> To: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>

>> >> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID:

>> >> <CAG1eoi3w-F2Ui-BfiKmBqYJ=

>> >> srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw at mail.gmail.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>> >>

>> >> I have to agree with this. As shocking and disappointing as the

>> >> revelations

>> >> might be, this makes the most sense to me.

>> >>

>> >> Omo

>> >>

>> >> On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, 20:56 Sunday Folayan, <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

>> >>

>> >> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway

>> suggest

>> >> > that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on

>> legacy

>> >> > space.

>> >> >

>> >> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal

>> >> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

>> >> done.

>> >> > I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

>> >> established,

>> >> > the law should take its course and people should stand accountable

>> for

>> >> > their deeds.

>> >> >

>> >> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

>> >> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards

>> of 7

>> >> > years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to

>> discover

>> >> > the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in

>> active

>> >> use,

>> >> > why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for

>> the

>> >> > common good?

>> >> >

>> >> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their

>> legal

>> >> > department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by

>> >> now.

>> >> >

>> >> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on

>> behalf

>> >> of

>> >> > the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,

>> with

>> >> > the assurance that justice will be served, the community should

>> rather

>> >> > apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available

>> for

>> >> > developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and

>> >> > intellect.

>> >> > Sunday.

>> >> >

>> >> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears

>> to

>> >> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

>> >> >

>> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

>> >> and

>> >> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

>> >> >

>> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

>> space

>> >> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated

>> and

>> >> then

>> >> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current

>> >> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those

>> >> processes

>> >> > may not have the desired outcome.

>> >> >

>> >> > Mike

>> >> >

>> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >> >

>> >> > Mark.

>> >> >

>> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

>> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>> >> >

>> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see

>> how to

>> >> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>> >> >

>> >> > Thanks.

>> >> >

>> >> > Sunday.

>> >> >

>> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

>> following

>> >> > news story.

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment,

>> I

>> >> > only

>> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> >> Vermeulen

>> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> >> > Regards,

>> >> > rfg

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://

>> >> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >> > --

>> >> > --------------------------------------------------

>> >> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan

>> >> > Managing Director

>> >> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

>> >> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

>> >> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

>> >> > Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com

>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >> -------------- next part --------------

>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

>> >> URL: <

>> >>

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/582fac38/attachment-0001.html

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 8

>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:28:06 +0100

>> >> From: Sylvain Baya <abscoco at gmail.com>

>> >> To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>,

>> >> "community-discuss at afrinic.net" <community-discuss at afrinic.net

>> >

>> >> Subject: [Community-Discuss] [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID:

>> >> <

>> >> CAJjTEvE+sHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS+AwyF6Kg at mail.gmail.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>> >>

>> >> Hi all,

>> >>

>> >> Le jeudi 5 d?cembre 2019, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za> a ?crit :

>> >>

>> >> > Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to

>> >> > manipulate the non-legacy space -

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> Dear Mark,

>> >> ...i agree !

>> >>

>> >> yet it happened. In this case (looting of non-legacy space), the RSA

>> has

>> >> > meant nothing.

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> As you say, i take you on words ; then if the RSA (Registration Service

>> >> Agreement) could

>> >> easily be bypassed, how to deal with our 'emerged' problem ?

>> >>

>> >> ...perhaps time to seriously reconsider the long life DPP (Draft Policy

>> >> Proposal) [1] ?

>> >> __

>> >> [1]: <https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp>

>> >>

>> >> Shalom,

>> >> --sb.

>> >>

>> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears

>> to

>> >> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

>> >> >

>> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

>> >> and

>> >> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

>> >> >

>> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

>> space

>> >> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated

>> and

>> >> then

>> >> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current

>> >> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those

>> >> processes

>> >> > may not have the desired outcome.

>> >> >

>> >> > Mike

>> >> >

>> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >> >

>> >> > Mark.

>> >> >

>> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

>> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>> >> >

>> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see

>> how to

>> >> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>> >> >

>> >> > Thanks.

>> >> >

>> >> > Sunday.

>> >> >

>> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

>> following

>> >> > news story.

>> >> >

>> >> > https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-

>> >> >

>> >>

>> resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment,

>> I

>> >> > only

>> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> >> Vermeulen

>> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> >> > Regards,

>> >> > rfg

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://

>> >> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >> > --

>> >> >

>> >> > Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa

>> >> > mje at posix.co.za Tel: +27.826010496 <+27826010496>

>> >> > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA:

>> https://ftth.posix.co.za

>> >> >

>> >> > [image: Posix Systems][image: VCARD for MJ Elkins]

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> --

>> >>

>> >> --

>> >> Best Regards !

>> >> baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] | <https://www.cmnog.cm> | <

>> >> https://survey.cmnog.cm>

>> >> Subscribe to Mailing List : <

>> >> https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/>

>> >> __

>> >> #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|?#?Romains15?:33?*Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit

>> avec

>> >> vous tous! ?#?Amen?!*?

>> >> ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement?

>> >> ?*Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me

>> soupire

>> >> apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!*? (#Psaumes42:2)

>> >> -------------- next part --------------

>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

>> >> URL: <

>> >>

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/63b5ef24/attachment-0001.html

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 9

>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:43:48 +0100

>> >> From: Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com>

>> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

>> >> Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

>> >>

>> >> I know what sparked this story. Some people have no chill. How

>> convenient

>> >> following the last meeting in June. Ok, and then what? What have you

>> >> benefited?

>> >>

>> >> Sent from my iPhone

>> >>

>> >> > On 4 Dec 2019, at 18:23, Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

>> >> wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

>> following

>> >> > news story.

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >> >

>> >> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I

>> >> only

>> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> >> Vermeulen

>> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > Regards,

>> >> > rfg

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 10

>> >> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:44:58 -0800

>> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <18818.1575585898 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>> >>

>> >> In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,

>> >> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

>> >>

>> >> >The community has been informed that there is already some internal

>> >> >investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

>> >> >done.

>> >>

>> >> Mr. Folayan,

>> >>

>> >> These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,

>> >> 2019, a full three months ago. Since that time there has not been a

>> >> single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,

>> >> or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague

>> assurances

>> >> that these matters are being looked into.

>> >>

>> >> Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns

>> >> about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full

>> >> three years ago.

>> >>

>> >>

>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html

>> >>

>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html

>> >>

>> >> I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again

>> >> repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,

>> >> albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention

>> >> paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any

>> >> concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.

>> >>

>> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html

>> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html

>> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html

>> >>

>> >> At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly

>> >> in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive

>> >> issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to

>> >> entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it

>> >> were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the

>> >> courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/>.

>> >> Neither the board nor

>> >> the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any

>> >> clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will

>> >> either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders

>> >> and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive

>> >> any of the findings that it may reach. And yet despite having had

>> >> either three full months or three full years to look into these

>> >> matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and

>> >> despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming

>> >> from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.

>> >>

>> >> This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the

>> >> community's patience to come to an end? Does the community have any

>> >> assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another

>> >> three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield

>> >> anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the

>> >> current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions

>> >> of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?

>> >>

>> >> On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at

>> long

>> >> last be forthcoming?

>> >>

>> >> >I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

>> >> >established, the law should take its course and people should stand

>> >> >accountable for their deeds.

>> >>

>> >> This assertion on your part begs four further questions:

>> >>

>> >> 1) Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been

>> presented

>> >> in the MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/> article, the

>> >> majority of which were drawn from

>> >> publicly available sources including open government records, what more

>> >> will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and

>> intentions

>> >> are established"? What parts of the abundant documentary evidence

>> already

>> >> presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?

>> >>

>> >> 2) If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za <

>> http://mybroadband.co.za/>

>> >> article, it can be persuasively

>> >> demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in

>> fact

>> >> purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC

>> >> itself is one of the aggrieved parties? And if so, would you hope and

>> >> expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and

>> >> all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?

>> >>

>> >> 3) Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and

>> >> endemic

>> >> within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do

>> you

>> >> have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all

>> >> likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?

>> >>

>> >> 4) What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-

>> >> documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks

>> from

>> >> AFRINIC's own free pool? Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed

>> by

>> >> AFRINIC? Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever

>> they

>> >> may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty

>> >> on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?

>> >>

>> >> >I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

>> >> >organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of

>> 7

>> >> >years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to

>> discover

>> >> >the manipulations.

>> >>

>> >> On this point, you and I are in complete agreement. "The system", such

>> >> as it is, is quite self-evidently broken. But this raises the further

>> >> question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at

>> >> AFRINIC,

>> >> while all of this was going on. Is it even plausible that a single bad

>> >> actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars

>> >> worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a

>> >> several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC

>> >> staff even noticed any of this?

>> >>

>> >> >For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their

>> legal

>> >> >department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by

>> >> now.

>> >>

>> >> See above. Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with

>> >> respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself. No other

>> >> single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much

>> >> valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself. And yet we have, as yet, no

>> >> clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff

>> >> member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone

>> >> that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated

>> >> by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.

>> >>

>> >> If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new

>> dictionary.

>> >>

>> >> >While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf

>> >> >of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,

>> >> >with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should

>> >> >rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are

>> >> >available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of

>> our

>> >> >time and intellect.

>> >>

>> >> See above. With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we

>> >> may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"? I

>> have

>> >> so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any

>> >> document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of

>> >> AFRINIC. In fact, quite the opposite. I see that a purported three

>> >> month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth

>> publicly

>> >> reporting on so far. I see an attempt to shift the blame for this

>> >> colossal

>> >> and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders

>> >> while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of

>> >> AFRINIC itself. I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action

>> >> will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a

>> >> backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general

>> >> disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific

>> >> national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.

>> >>

>> >> For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,

>> >> Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.

>> >> The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and

>> >> to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or

>> >> placed

>> >> under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to

>> all.

>> >> AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding

>> >> responsibility.

>> >>

>> >> I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively

>> >> remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing

>> >> after-effects. I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now

>> >> evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the

>> carpet

>> >> will no longer be considered a vialble option.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Regards,

>> >> rfg

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> P.S. I must strenuously object to your use of the word

>> "whistleblower" in

>> >> this context Mr. Folayan. That term is usually used in reference to

>> some

>> >> insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed

>> >> first-hand some malfeasance. Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this

>> >> description. Rather, we have labored as outsiders only. We have not

>> >> been privy to any "inside" information. Quite the opposite in fact.

>> We

>> >> have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests

>> >> for information by AFRINIC staff.

>> >>

>> >> Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our

>> >> reasonable

>> >> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.

>> >> Exactly

>> >> such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other

>> >> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists

>> upon

>> >> request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such

>> unredacted

>> >> WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were

>> rejected

>> >> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved

>> policy

>> >> was cited as the basis for the denial.

>> >>

>> >> At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate

>> explanation

>> >> for

>> >> this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be

>> >> granted at long last. Certain portions of my research cannot be

>> completed

>> >> without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis

>> >> for

>> >> the rejection of such requests.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> P.P.S. As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the

>> >> numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place. I feel

>> >> compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been

>> >> double-victimized in at least two specific instances.

>> >>

>> >> First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large

>> IPv4

>> >> blocks "liberated" from its free pool. Secondarily and even more

>> >> insultingly

>> >> however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also

>> >> arranged

>> >> to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be

>> associated

>> >> with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other

>> >> legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired

>> IPv4

>> >> allocations.

>> >>

>> >> I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15

>> block,

>> >> registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the

>> >> non-legacy

>> >> 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.

>> >> These

>> >> blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six

>> million

>> >> U.S. dollars.

>> >>

>> >> As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD

>> >> mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as

>> MEMBER-ONLY,

>> >> as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any

>> >> actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to

>> >> AFRINIC.

>> >>

>> >> I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this

>> >> regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it

>> does

>> >> appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have

>> -both-

>> >> stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years

>> >> on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be

>> due

>> >> on these IPv4 assignments.

>> >>

>> >> Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further

>> >> clarification

>> >> with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been

>> >> collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned,

>> for

>> >> any year since their allocation to and association with the

>> organizations

>> >> noted.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 11

>> >> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 17:24:26 -0800

>> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

>> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <19435.1575595466 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>> >>

>> >> In message <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>,

>> >> Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com> wrote:

>> >>

>> >> >I know what sparked this story.

>> >>

>> >> If you have something to say, then you have our attention and the

>> floor.

>> >> Please proceed.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Regards,

>> >> rfg

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 12

>> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 10:04:06 +0100

>> >> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>

>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>> >>

>> >> Hi Sunday, all,

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let

>> me

>> >> tell why.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My

>> first

>> >> AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly after,

>> >> during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could contribute

>> to

>> >> the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and joining Ernest

>> in his

>> >> trips to do the Registration Services training so I do IPv6 trainings.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos, I

>> >> was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the Madrid

>> >> Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from Sunday, I

>> could

>> >> resolve that on the next day and flight again to do the training.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,

>> >> and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been

>> doing

>> >> those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been able to

>> take

>> >> advantage of that.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as

>> well

>> >> as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much

>> together,

>> >> you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost 15 years.

>> Of

>> >> course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a hidden face.

>> As

>> >> humans, we all have positive and negative things. But I?m really

>> shocked, I

>> >> still resist to believe it.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the position

>> >> of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use

>> >> your own name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe

>> >> someone,? may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to

>> >> appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly and

>> >> non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean he

>> is

>> >> still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or

>> something

>> >> similar.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents.

>> If

>> >> you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,

>> and

>> >> may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and

>> >> involvement an all this.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal interest.

>> >> My only interest is to know the *real true* and I?m sure everybody

>> agrees

>> >> on that.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so

>> no

>> >> doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very

>> >> thankful for that.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Regards,

>> >>

>> >> Jordi

>> >>

>> >> @jordipalet

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com> escribi?:

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway

>> suggest

>> >> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy

>> >> space.

>> >>

>> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal

>> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

>> done.

>> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

>> established,

>> >> the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for

>> >> their deeds.

>> >>

>> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

>> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7

>> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to

>> discover

>> >> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active

>> use,

>> >> why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the

>> >> common good?

>> >>

>> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal

>> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by

>> now.

>> >>

>> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf

>> of

>> >> the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,

>> with

>> >> the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather

>> >> apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for

>> >> developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and

>> >> intellect.

>> >>

>> >> Sunday.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:

>> >>

>> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to

>> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

>> and

>> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

>> space

>> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and

>> then

>> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current

>> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those

>> processes

>> >> may not have the desired outcome.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Mike

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >>

>> >> Mark.

>> >>

>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >>

>> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

>> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>> >>

>> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how

>> to

>> >> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>> >>

>> >> Thanks.

>> >>

>> >> Sunday.

>> >>

>> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following

>> >> news story.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I

>> >> only

>> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> Vermeulen

>> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> >> Regards,

>> >> rfg

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> --

>> >> --------------------------------------------------

>> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan

>> >> Managing Director

>> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

>> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

>> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

>> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com

>> >> ---------------------------------------------------

>> >> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss

>> mailing

>> >> list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> **********************************************

>> >> IPv4 is over

>> >> Are you ready for the new Internet ?

>> >> http://www.theipv6company.com

>> >> The IPv6 Company

>> >>

>> >> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or

>> >> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use

>> of

>> >> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized

>> >> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this

>> >> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly

>> >> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not

>> the

>> >> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution

>> or

>> >> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including

>> >> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal

>> >> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this

>> >> communication and delete it.

>> >>

>> >> -------------- next part --------------

>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

>> >> URL: <

>> >>

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/e007b6dd/attachment-0001.html

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 13

>> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:16:03 +0100

>> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>

>> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>, General Discussions

>> >> of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

>> >>

>> >> Dear Mr Guilmette,

>> >>

>> >> Regrettably, I do not monitor the press, but selected channels such as

>> >> this list. It seems I got your attention, or you got my attention, or

>> we

>> >> both got each other's attention. Let us therefore maximize the

>> possession.

>> >>

>> >> Important and interesting questions, that you have raised in this

>> email.

>> >> Let us put some punch in it. Kindly change the TO: field to

>> >> ceo at afrinic.net, and cc the Community just to make sure it is not

>> >> ignored, then resend it. I am sure the CEO will answer all the

>> questions

>> >> you here posed to me. Pity he has to start his tenure with these hard

>> >> nuts and curveballs, but he is capable. He speaks for the Company, not

>> me.

>> >>

>> >> I am equally sure that the Community appreciates the great work done,

>> >> and no one supports the exposed fraud. You are a stakeholder, and not

>> >> some casual bystander so please note this. What you conveniently

>> >> ignored, is that the #1 accused company insider is the eye of the

>> >> company on the policy lists, where you raised the issues.

>> >>

>> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should

>> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more

>> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking

>> stakeholder.

>> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.

>> >>

>> >> My use of the term "Whistleblowers" is appropriate, as I looked at one

>> >> of your reference links, and indeed, someone confirmed to you privately

>> >> that your hunch is right. If you do not claim the honour, they should,

>> >> because you rightly built on their work!

>> >>

>> >> Great job you are doing.

>> >>

>> >> Have a great day.

>> >>

>> >> Sunday.

>> >>

>> >> On 05/12/2019 23:44, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >> > In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,

>> >> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal

>> >> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get

>> things

>> >> >> done.

>> >> > Mr. Folayan,

>> >> >

>> >> > These matters were first brought to light in the press on September

>> 1,

>> >> > 2019, a full three months ago. Since that time there has not been a

>> >> > single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting

>> CEO,

>> >> > or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague

>> >> assurances

>> >> > that these matters are being looked into.

>> >> >

>> >> > Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns

>> >> > about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full

>> >> > three years ago.

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html

>> >> >

>> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html

>> >> >

>> >> > I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again

>> >> > repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,

>> >> > albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention

>> >> > paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any

>> >> > concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html

>> >> >

>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html

>> >> >

>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html

>> >> >

>> >> > At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly

>> >> > in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive

>> >> > issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to

>> >> > entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it

>> >> > were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the

>> >> > courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/

>> >.

>> >> Neither the board nor

>> >> > the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any

>> >> > clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will

>> >> > either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various

>> stakeholders

>> >> > and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive

>> >> > any of the findings that it may reach. And yet despite having had

>> >> > either three full months or three full years to look into these

>> >> > matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and

>> >> > despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming

>> >> > from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel

>> patience.

>> >> >

>> >> > This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the

>> >> > community's patience to come to an end? Does the community have any

>> >> > assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another

>> >> > three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield

>> >> > anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the

>> >> > current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of

>> millions

>> >> > of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?

>> >> >

>> >> > On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at

>> >> long

>> >> > last be forthcoming?

>> >> >

>> >> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

>> >> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand

>> >> >> accountable for their deeds.

>> >> > This assertion on your part begs four further questions:

>> >> >

>> >> > 1) Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been

>> presented

>> >> > in the MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/> article, the

>> >> majority of which were drawn from

>> >> > publicly available sources including open government records, what

>> more

>> >> > will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and

>> >> intentions

>> >> > are established"? What parts of the abundant documentary evidence

>> >> already

>> >> > presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?

>> >> >

>> >> > 2) If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za

>> >> <http://mybroadband.co.za/> article, it can be persuasively

>> >> > demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in

>> >> fact

>> >> > purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that

>> AFRINIC

>> >> > itself is one of the aggrieved parties? And if so, would you hope

>> and

>> >> > expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any

>> and

>> >> > all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?

>> >> >

>> >> > 3) Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and

>> >> endemic

>> >> > within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do

>> >> you

>> >> > have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at

>> all

>> >> > likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?

>> >> >

>> >> > 4) What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those

>> well-

>> >> > documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks

>> from

>> >> > AFRINIC's own free pool? Should these blocks be immediately

>> reclaimed

>> >> by

>> >> > AFRINIC? Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever

>> >> they

>> >> > may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten

>> booty

>> >> > on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?

>> >> >

>> >> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

>> >> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards

>> of 7

>> >> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to

>> >> discover

>> >> >> the manipulations.

>> >> > On this point, you and I are in complete agreement. "The system",

>> such

>> >> > as it is, is quite self-evidently broken. But this raises the

>> further

>> >> > question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at

>> >> AFRINIC,

>> >> > while all of this was going on. Is it even plausible that a single

>> bad

>> >> > actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million

>> dollars

>> >> > worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a

>> >> > several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC

>> >> > staff even noticed any of this?

>> >> >

>> >> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their

>> legal

>> >> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto

>> by

>> >> now.

>> >> > See above. Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced

>> with

>> >> > respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself. No other

>> >> > single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much

>> >> > valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself. And yet we have, as yet, no

>> >> > clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any

>> staff

>> >> > member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let

>> alone

>> >> > that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated

>> >> > by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.

>> >> >

>> >> > If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new

>> dictionary.

>> >> >

>> >> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on

>> behalf

>> >> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system

>> here,

>> >> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should

>> >> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are

>> >> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of

>> >> our

>> >> >> time and intellect.

>> >> > See above. With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where

>> we

>> >> > may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"? I

>> >> have

>> >> > so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in

>> any

>> >> > document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member

>> of

>> >> > AFRINIC. In fact, quite the opposite. I see that a purported three

>> >> > month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth

>> publicly

>> >> > reporting on so far. I see an attempt to shift the blame for this

>> >> colossal

>> >> > and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block

>> holders

>> >> > while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of

>> >> > AFRINIC itself. I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action

>> >> > will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a

>> >> > backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a

>> general

>> >> > disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific

>> >> > national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this

>> case.

>> >> >

>> >> > For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances

>> misplaced,

>> >> > Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.

>> >> > The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign

>> and

>> >> > to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or

>> >> placed

>> >> > under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to

>> >> all.

>> >> > AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding

>> >> responsibility.

>> >> >

>> >> > I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and

>> effectively

>> >> > remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still

>> ongoing

>> >> > after-effects. I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the

>> now

>> >> > evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the

>> >> carpet

>> >> > will no longer be considered a vialble option.

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > Regards,

>> >> > rfg

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > P.S. I must strenuously object to your use of the word

>> "whistleblower"

>> >> in

>> >> > this context Mr. Folayan. That term is usually used in reference to

>> >> some

>> >> > insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed

>> >> > first-hand some malfeasance. Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this

>> >> > description. Rather, we have labored as outsiders only. We have not

>> >> > been privy to any "inside" information. Quite the opposite in

>> fact. We

>> >> > have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable

>> requests

>> >> > for information by AFRINIC staff.

>> >> >

>> >> > Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our

>> >> reasonable

>> >> > requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.

>> >> Exactly

>> >> > such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four

>> other

>> >> > Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists

>> >> upon

>> >> > request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such

>> >> unredacted

>> >> > WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were

>> >> rejected

>> >> > out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved

>> >> policy

>> >> > was cited as the basis for the denial.

>> >> >

>> >> > At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate

>> >> explanation for

>> >> > this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to

>> be

>> >> > granted at long last. Certain portions of my research cannot be

>> >> completed

>> >> > without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved

>> basis

>> >> for

>> >> > the rejection of such requests.

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > P.P.S. As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of

>> the

>> >> > numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place. I feel

>> >> > compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively

>> been

>> >> > double-victimized in at least two specific instances.

>> >> >

>> >> > First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large

>> IPv4

>> >> > blocks "liberated" from its free pool. Secondarily and even more

>> >> insultingly

>> >> > however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also

>> >> arranged

>> >> > to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be

>> >> associated

>> >> > with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all

>> other

>> >> > legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired

>> IPv4

>> >> > allocations.

>> >> >

>> >> > I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15

>> >> block,

>> >> > registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the

>> >> non-legacy

>> >> > 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC

>> organization.

>> >> These

>> >> > blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six

>> >> million

>> >> > U.S. dollars.

>> >> >

>> >> > As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the

>> RPD

>> >> > mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as

>> >> MEMBER-ONLY,

>> >> > as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold

>> any

>> >> > actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees

>> to

>> >> > AFRINIC.

>> >> >

>> >> > I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in

>> this

>> >> > regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it

>> >> does

>> >> > appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have

>> -both-

>> >> > stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for

>> years

>> >> > on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be

>> >> due

>> >> > on these IPv4 assignments.

>> >> >

>> >> > Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further

>> >> clarification

>> >> > with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have

>> been

>> >> > collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned,

>> for

>> >> > any year since their allocation to and association with the

>> >> organizations

>> >> > noted.

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >>

>> >> --

>> >> --------------------------------------------------

>> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan

>> >> Managing Director

>> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

>> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

>> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

>> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com

>> >> ---------------------------------------------------

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 14

>> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:07:01 -0800

>> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <21084.1575626821 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>> >>

>> >> Mr. Folayan,

>> >>

>> >> Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful

>> response.

>> >>

>> >> At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and

>> beyond

>> >> what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,

>> >> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

>> >>

>> >> >I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should

>> >> >conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more

>> >> >honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking

>> stakeholder.

>> >> >It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.

>> >>

>> >> Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.

>> >>

>> >> Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to

>> see

>> >> the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC. That is quite certainly not a

>> >> goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as

>> >> you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder

>> >> should wish for. AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global

>> >> Internet governance. I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.

>> >> No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a

>> >> few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second. And to use an

>> >> even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing

>> >> smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than

>> >> I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.

>> >>

>> >> If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being

>> >> formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested

>> >> that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already

>> >> sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it,

>> being

>> >> preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere. Now I may stand on the comfortable

>> >> shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but

>> >> I do not question the utility of the journey.

>> >>

>> >> The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters

>> >> of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose. Time will

>> >> tell if that is an accurate assesment.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Regards,

>> >> rfg

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 15

>> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:14:31 +0100

>> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>

>> >> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>, General

>> >> Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed at gmail.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

>> >>

>> >> Good points Jordi, and thanks for the throwback on the very many

>> amazing

>> >> sacrifices we all made, to grow the Internet in Africa.

>> >>

>> >> I will resist asking Ernest to defend himself here, We are not

>> >> constituted as a competent jury, neither do we want to compromise the

>> >> ongoing investigations.

>> >>

>> >> Questions are appropriate, so will be his own admissions or rebuttals,

>> >> when the investigations are completed.

>> >>

>> >> I may be wrong, but that is my own expectations and position.

>> >>

>> >> Sunday.

>> >>

>> >> On 06/12/2019 10:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > Hi Sunday, all,

>> >> >

>> >> > I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article.

>> Let

>> >> > me tell why.

>> >> >

>> >> > I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My

>> >> > first AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and

>> shortly

>> >> > after, during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could

>> >> > contribute to the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and

>> >> > joining Ernest in his trips to do the Registration Services training

>> >> > so I do IPv6 trainings.

>> >> >

>> >> > Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos,

>> >> > I was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the

>> >> > Madrid Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from

>> >> > Sunday, I could resolve that on the next day and flight again to do

>> >> > the training.

>> >> >

>> >> > My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing

>> that,

>> >> > and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been

>> >> > doing those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been

>> >> > able to take advantage of that.

>> >> >

>> >> > The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as

>> >> > well as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much

>> >> > together, you get to know people, and we are talking here about

>> almost

>> >> > 15 years. Of course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have

>> a

>> >> > hidden face. As humans, we all have positive and negative things. But

>> >> > I?m really shocked, I still resist to believe it.

>> >> >

>> >> > I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the

>> >> > position of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think

>> >> > you will use your own name for registering companies, or instead you

>> >> > will bribe someone, may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your

>> >> > family name to appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly

>> >> > and non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t

>> mean

>> >> > he is still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or

>> >> > something similar.

>> >> >

>> >> > Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents.

>> >> > If you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be

>> enough.

>> >> >

>> >> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,

>> >> > and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes

>> and

>> >> > involvement an all this.

>> >> >

>> >> > Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal

>> >> > interest. My only interest is to know the **real true** and I?m sure

>> >> > everybody agrees on that.

>> >> >

>> >> > Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so

>> >> > no doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and

>> very

>> >> > thankful for that.

>> >> >

>> >> > Regards,

>> >> >

>> >> > Jordi

>> >> >

>> >> > @jordipalet

>> >> >

>> >> > El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com

>> >> > <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> escribi?:

>> >> >

>> >> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway

>> >> > suggest that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only

>> >> > on legacy space.

>> >> >

>> >> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal

>> >> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

>> >> > done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

>> >> > established, the law should take its course and people should stand

>> >> > accountable for their deeds.

>> >> >

>> >> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

>> >> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of

>> >> > 7 years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to

>> >> > discover the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or

>> >> > in active use, why would or should they not have been returned to the

>> >> > Registry for the common good?

>> >> >

>> >> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their

>> >> > legal department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with

>> >> > gusto by now.

>> >> >

>> >> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on

>> behalf

>> >> > of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system

>> here,

>> >> > with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should

>> >> > rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are

>> >> > available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of

>> >> > our time and intellect.

>> >> >

>> >> > Sunday.

>> >> >

>> >> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there

>> >> > appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy

>> >> > space.

>> >> >

>> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the

>> >> > problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space

>> issue.

>> >> >

>> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on

>> how

>> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been

>> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of

>> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then

>> >> > moving legacy space under those processes may not have the

>> desired

>> >> > outcome.

>> >> >

>> >> > Mike

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu

>> >> > <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >> >

>> >> > Mark.

>> >> >

>> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues,

>> specifically

>> >> > ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet

>> >> > in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces

>> >> > under some form of RSA?

>> >> >

>> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and

>> let

>> >> > us see how to help and empower the people doing useful

>> >> > work for Africa.

>> >> >

>> >> > Thanks.

>> >> >

>> >> > Sunday.

>> >> >

>> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think

>> >> > about the following

>> >> > news story.

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >> >

>> >> > ? I will have more to say about this in due course.?

>> >> > For the moment, I only

>> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by

>> >> > myself and Jan Vermeulen

>> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably

>> involved.

>> >> > ? ? Regards,

>> >> > rfg

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> >

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> >

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> >

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:

>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> >

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >> > --

>> >> > --------------------------------------------------

>> >> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan

>> >> > Managing Director

>> >> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

>> >> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

>> >> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

>> >> > Email:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>,

>> >> sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>

>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss

>> >> > mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > **********************************************

>> >> > IPv4 is over

>> >> > Are you ready for the new Internet ?

>> >> > http://www.theipv6company.com

>> >> > The IPv6 Company

>> >> >

>> >> > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged

>> >> > or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive

>> >> > use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty

>> >> > authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents

>> of

>> >> > this information, even if partially, including attached files, is

>> >> > strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you

>> >> > are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,

>> >> > distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if

>> >> > partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be

>> >> > considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original

>> >> > sender to inform about this communication and delete it.

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >>

>> >> --

>> >> --------------------------------------------------

>> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan

>> >> Managing Director

>> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

>> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

>> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

>> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com

>> >> ---------------------------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> -------------- next part --------------

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>> >>

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/8c6c63d5/attachment-0001.html

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 16

>> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 12:17:52 +0200

>> >> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>

>> >> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>

>> >> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> > On 6 Dec 2019, at 11:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <

>> >> community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,

>> >> and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and

>> >> involvement an all this.

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> :-) Might as well setup a confession booth and provide absolution of

>> >> souls. On a serious note, we need a proper investigation. Let?s wait

>> to

>> >> hear from the CEO

>> >>

>> >> Omo

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> -------------- next part --------------

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>> >> URL: <

>> >>

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/4e0f75fc/attachment-0001.html

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 17

>> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:21:40 +0100

>> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>

>> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>, General Discussions

>> >> of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10 at gmail.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

>> >>

>> >> Dear Mr Guilmette,

>> >>

>> >> On 06/12/2019 11:07, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >> > Mr. Folayan,

>> >> >

>> >> > Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful

>> >> response.

>> >> >

>> >> > At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and

>> beyond

>> >> > what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,

>> >> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we

>> should

>> >> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much

>> more

>> >> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking

>> >> stakeholder.

>> >> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.

>> >> > Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.

>> >> >

>> >> > Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to

>> see

>> >> > the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC. That is quite certainly not

>> a

>> >> > goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as

>> >> > you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder

>> >> > should wish for. AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global

>> >> > Internet governance. I cannot even envision things as being

>> otherwise.

>> >> > No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of

>> a

>> >> > few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second. And to use an

>> >> > even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing

>> >> > smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more

>> than

>> >> > I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the

>> plains.

>> >> >

>> >> > If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was

>> being

>> >> > formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested

>> >> > that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already

>> >> > sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it,

>> being

>> >> > preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere. Now I may stand on the comfortable

>> >> > shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel,

>> but

>> >> > I do not question the utility of the journey.

>> >> >

>> >> > The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think,

>> matters

>> >> > of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose. Time

>> will

>> >> > tell if that is an accurate assesment.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> This is most assuring and comforting at the same time.

>> >>

>> >> If I have sounded off-key, please accept my sincere apologies, and

>> thank

>> >> you very much for the good job you have done for the community so far.

>> >> History will never forget your role and progressive disposition at this

>> >> point in time.

>> >>

>> >> When AfriNIC was being formed, the challenges of today, were not

>> >> envisioned in the very many ways that they now present themselves.

>> >> Africa has come a long way. Unfortunately, there are still many more

>> >> oceans to cross, but we will all band together as a purposeful fleet.

>> >> That is how we can all weather the storms that may come, but sure they

>> >> will come.

>> >>

>> >> With kind Regards ...

>> >>

>> >> Sunday.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 18

>> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:58:27 -0800

>> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <21283.1575629907 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>> >>

>> >> In message <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>,

>> >> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:

>> >>

>> >> >I also believe that he is a smart guy.

>> >>

>> >> I would not dispute that characterization in the slightest.

>> >>

>> >> >So, put yourself in the position of

>> >> >a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use

>> >> your o

>> >> >wn name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe

>> >> someone,=C2=A0

>> >> > may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear

>> in

>> >> an

>> >> >y documents? I feel this is really silly and non-understandable.

>> >>

>> >> And yet it seemed to work, for years on end, with no one raising so

>> much

>> >> as an eyebrow because nobody seriously investigated or seriously looked

>> >> at all of the relevant corporate documents and WHOIS records and, in

>> >> particular, the historical WHOIS records, including but not limited to

>> >> these ones:

>> >>

>> >> ORG-AI2-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD

>> >> ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB

>> >> ORG-IA41-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP

>> >> ORG-ZZ139-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW

>> >> ORG-ZZ23-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N

>> >>

>> >> I have been chasing down miscreants on the Internet for more than 20

>> years

>> >> now. One of the lessons I have learned in that time is that none of

>> them

>> >> are ten feet tall, and the majority of them absolutely suck at OPSEC.

>> It

>> >> is almost as if some part of them is deluding their own brains into the

>> >> false belief that what they are doing is not really wrong, in some

>> >> sense, and that they are somehow actually entitled to the stuff they

>> are

>> >> stealing, and that thus, at some level, they don't actually need to

>> hide

>> >> what they are doing all that throughly, because just as White House

>> Chief

>> >> of Staff Mick Mulvaney did not long ago... much to the shock of

>> >> everyone...

>> >> if they are ever caught and confronted they assume that they will just

>> say

>> >> "Yea. So? We do that all of the time. Get over it!"

>> >>

>> >> >So maybe

>> >> >somebody used him, which doesn=E2=80=99t mean he is still guilty

>> >> =E2=80=9Cin

>> >> >vigilando=E2=80=9D because he trusted anyone else, or something

>> similar.

>> >>

>> >> It's a nice thought, and you are a generous person to allow this

>> >> possibility

>> >> Jordi. All I can say is that other information, not yet made public,

>> >> appears to rule out the possibility that Mr. Byaruhanga was either an

>> >> unwitting stooge or a convenient fall guy.

>> >>

>> >> >Do we believe in =E2=80=9Cpresumption of innocence=E2=80=9D? I do,

>> >> despite

>> >> >documents. If you don=E2=80=99t know the complete background,

>> documents

>> >> may

>> >> >not be enough.

>> >>

>> >> I agree.

>> >>

>> >> That having been said, I hope that you will, as I have, spend some time

>> >> carefully scrutinizing both the current and historical WHOIS records

>> >> associated with the ORGanizations and the IPv4 blocks listed in the two

>> >> tables in Jan's article. If you do that, I think that you will be, as

>> >> I was, hard pressed to explain all of the quite glaring anomalies in

>> >> any way that does not involve a great deal of very deliberate

>> malfesance

>> >> on somebody's part. Once you are convinced of that, then the question

>> >> becomes: Who is responsible? And it is at that point that the various

>> >> official governmental corporate registration records would seem to

>> become

>> >> very relevant.

>> >>

>> >> >So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,

>> and

>> >> >may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and

>> >> involvement

>> >> >an all this.

>> >>

>> >> I would like to echo that sentiment.

>> >>

>> >> Jan Vermeulen and myself have tried, repeatedly, and over some

>> significant

>> >> time now to reach him, both via voice, at a number of different phone

>> >> numbers

>> >> that we have identified as being associated with him, and also via

>> email,

>> >> at various of his known email addresses, and we have been utterly

>> unable

>> >> to

>> >> do so. We both very much look forward to speaking with him and getting

>> >> his

>> >> side of the story, if he has one.

>> >>

>> >> That having been said, we cannot be blamed, I think, for reaching

>> certain

>> >> reasonable conclusions when Jan's industry sources informed him, less

>> than

>> >> a day after I had attempted to confront Ernest, via email, with the

>> facts

>> >> arrayed against him, that he had abruptly resigned his position at

>> AFRINIC

>> >> after 15 years on the job.

>> >>

>> >> His abrupt resignation was and remains his only apparent response to

>> our

>> >> inquiries.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Regards,

>> >> rfg

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 19

>> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 03:16:57 -0800

>> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> >> Message-ID: <21648.1575631017 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>> >>

>> >> In message <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>,

>> >> Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> wrote:

>> >>

>> >> >On a serious note, we need a proper investigation. Let's

>> >> >wait to hear from the CEO

>> >>

>> >> Have any of us been doing otherwise, for lo these past three months

>> now?

>> >>

>> >> Have we been afforded any other choice in the matter?

>> >>

>> >> Can AFRINIC clean its own stables?

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Regards,

>> >> rfg

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Subject: Digest Footer

>> >>

>> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1

>> >> *************************************************

>> >>

>> >

>> >

>> > --

>> > *Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb*

>> > *muyiwacaleb at gmail.com <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>*

>> > *234 - 8077377378*

>> > *234 - 07030777969*

>> > _______________________________________________

>> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >

>> >

>> > _______________________________________________

>> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >

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>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Subject: Digest Footer

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 551, Issue 1

>> *************************************************

>>

> _______________________________________________

> Community-Discuss mailing list

> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>

--
*Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb*
*muyiwacaleb at gmail.com <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>*
*234 - 8077377378*
*234 - 07030777969*
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