<div dir="ltr"><div>@Anthony,<br><br></div><div>I believe this is not an RPD list. An opinion does not constitute to making a case for a policy or going against it.<br></div><div><br></div><div>You can raise such issues on RPD which is an appropriate forum for such policy conversation. I only aired an opinion.</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you</div><div><br></div><div>Caleb<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 5:47 PM Anthony Ubah <<a href="mailto:ubah.tonyiyke@gmail.com">ubah.tonyiyke@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US">Dear Caleb
and </span>Arnaud<span lang="EN-US">,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US">I’m
confused about your insinuation on this with respect to the solving the problem
at hand. From the surface value, it looks like a very good policy. However, I
still struggle to decipher with the practicality of implementing the Internet
Number Resource review policy, and the consequences in the real world.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US">African is
a region of complex and opaque soc-political systems. Introducing such complex policies
will most likely not lead to an abuse of power, over-policing, and victimization.
Introducing a Gestapo style policing will create a cancerous system which will be unfavorable
to the region’ as a whole.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US">I was at
the at just concluded meeting where this policy was re-represented, giving the
feedback from the community, I hoped to see a revised version but alas! it was
the same. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p style="line-height:150%"><b style="line-height:150%;font-size:12.8px"><span style="line-height:150%"><font face="garamond, serif">Best Regards,</font></span></b></p><p style="line-height:150%"><font face="garamond, serif"><b style="line-height:150%;font-size:12.8px"><span style="line-height:150%">ANTHONY </span></b></font></p><p style="line-height:150%"><span style="color:rgb(153,153,153);font-family:garamond,serif">E-mail: </span><a href="mailto:anthony.ubah@gloworld.com" style="font-family:garamond,serif" target="_blank">anthony.ubah@goldspine.com</a><span style="color:rgb(153,153,153);font-family:garamond,serif">.ng</span><br></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 2:58 PM <<a href="mailto:community-discuss-request@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss-request@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to<br>
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."<br>
<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1 (Arnaud AMELINA)<br>
2. Re: Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1 (Arnaud AMELINA)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:48:37 +0000<br>
From: Arnaud AMELINA <<a href="mailto:amelnaud@gmail.com" target="_blank">amelnaud@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <<a href="mailto:muyiwacaleb@gmail.com" target="_blank">muyiwacaleb@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547,<br>
Issue 1<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAGDMR_cXHVW34SOD40wNBOrhiVOzR1-p+=<a href="mailto:CPTkSvfPCLee3mPw@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CPTkSvfPCLee3mPw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
+1 to Caleb as you say it, it's time to find consensus on review policy.<br>
<br>
Regard<br>
<br>
--<br>
Arnaud<br>
<br>
Le ven. 6 d?c. 2019 ? 15:48, Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <<a href="mailto:muyiwacaleb@gmail.com" target="_blank">muyiwacaleb@gmail.com</a>><br>
a ?crit :<br>
<br>
> Dear Ronald,<br>
><br>
> So I read where this comment below was attributed to you.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *>?Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our<br>
> reasonable> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS<br>
> database. Exactly> such unredacted database dumps *are* provided by all of<br>
> the four other> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and<br>
> journalists upon> request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly<br>
> such unredacted> WHOIS database dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our<br>
> requests were rejected> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any<br>
> community-approved policy> was cited as the basis for the denial.?*<br>
> While not taking brief for AFRINIC or any of its staff, I feel you should<br>
> know that AFRINIC?s operation is also being governed by Mauritius data<br>
> protection law.<br>
> Mauritius regulates data protection under the Data Protection Act 2017<br>
> (DPA 2017 or Act), proclaimed through Proclamation No. 3 of 2018, effective<br>
> January 15, 2018. The Act repeals and replaces the Data Protection Act<br>
> 2004, so as to align with the European Union General Data Protection<br>
> Regulation 2016/679 (GDPR).<br>
><br>
> Even if you are not familiar with Mauritius law, the EU GDPR which is more<br>
> popular should tell you the implication of revealing a WHOIS database to a<br>
> non-state prosecutorial actor like yourself who does not have a court<br>
> warrant to see the redacted sections you seek. Please correct me if I?m<br>
> wrong in my legal analysis of your request.<br>
><br>
> Perhaps, isn?t it time for the community to revisit the Internet Number<br>
> Resources review policy<br>
> <<a href="https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal</a>> which was not<br>
> on the docket for policy at this just-concluded meeting?<br>
> <a href="https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal</a><br>
><br>
> We might be doing something right this time if that policy will allow for<br>
> a diligent review of resources including the legacy ones.<br>
><br>
> Regards<br>
><br>
> Caleb Ogundele<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 12:17 PM <<a href="mailto:community-discuss-request@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss-request@afrinic.net</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to<br>
>> <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>><br>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
>> <a href="mailto:community-discuss-request@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss-request@afrinic.net</a><br>
>><br>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
>> <a href="mailto:community-discuss-owner@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss-owner@afrinic.net</a><br>
>><br>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
>> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Today's Topics:<br>
>><br>
>> 1. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)<br>
>> 2. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mike Silber)<br>
>> 3. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Elkins)<br>
>> 4. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Andrew Alston)<br>
>> 5. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)<br>
>> 6. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)<br>
>> 7. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)<br>
>> 8. [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC (Sylvain Baya)<br>
>> 9. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Isabel Odida)<br>
>> 10. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)<br>
>> 11. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)<br>
>> 12. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)<br>
>> 13. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)<br>
>> 14. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)<br>
>> 15. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)<br>
>> 16. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)<br>
>> 17. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)<br>
>> 18. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)<br>
>> 19. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 1<br>
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:27:42 +0200<br>
>> From: Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>><br>
>> To: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16@seacom.mu" target="_blank">9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16@seacom.mu</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
>><br>
>> Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
>><br>
>> Mark.<br>
>><br>
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br>
>> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br>
>> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how<br>
>> > to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Thanks.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Sunday.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br>
>> >> news story.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the moment,<br>
>> >> I only<br>
>> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br>
>> >> Vermeulen<br>
>> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
>> >> ? ? Regards,<br>
>> >> rfg<br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> >> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> >> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> >><br>
>><br>
>> -------------- next part --------------<br>
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
>> URL: <<br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/7f6aa1b8/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/7f6aa1b8/attachment-0001.html</a><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 2<br>
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:46:15 +0200<br>
>> From: Mike Silber <<a href="mailto:silber.mike@gmail.com" target="_blank">silber.mike@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3@gmail.com" target="_blank">2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
>><br>
>> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to<br>
>> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br>
>><br>
>> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and<br>
>> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
>><br>
>> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space<br>
>> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then<br>
>> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current<br>
>> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes<br>
>> may not have the desired outcome.<br>
>><br>
>> Mike<br>
>><br>
>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>> wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Mark.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
>> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br>
>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br>
>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how<br>
>> to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Thanks.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Sunday.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>> >>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the<br>
>> following<br>
>> >>> news story.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
>> <<br>
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a>><br>
>><br>
>> >>> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment,<br>
>> I only<br>
>> >>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br>
>> Vermeulen<br>
>> >>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
>> >>> Regards,<br>
>> >>> rfg<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> >>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> >>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a> <<br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
>> -------------- next part --------------<br>
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
>> URL: <<br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/1d4a9dec/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/1d4a9dec/attachment-0001.html</a><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 3<br>
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:59:57 +0200<br>
>> From: Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>><br>
>> To: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f@posix.co.za" target="_blank">007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f@posix.co.za</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br>
>><br>
>> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to<br>
>> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting<br>
>> of non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.<br>
>><br>
>> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:<br>
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears<br>
>> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem<br>
>> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how<br>
>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been<br>
>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of<br>
>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving<br>
>> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Mike<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a><br>
>> >> <mailto:<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>>> wrote:<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Mark.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
>> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br>
>> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br>
>> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see<br>
>> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Thanks.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Sunday.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the<br>
>> >>>> following<br>
>> >>>> news story.<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the<br>
>> >>>> moment, I only<br>
>> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br>
>> >>>> Vermeulen<br>
>> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
>> >>>> ? ? Regards,<br>
>> >>>> rfg<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> >>>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> >>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> >> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> >> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> --<br>
>><br>
>> Mark James ELKINS? -? Posix Systems - (South) Africa<br>
>> <a href="http://mje@posix.co.za????" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za????</a>?? Tel: +27.826010496 <tel:+27826010496><br>
>> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a><br>
>><br>
>> Posix SystemsVCARD for MJ Elkins<br>
>><br>
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>> ><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 4<br>
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:10:48 +0000<br>
>> From: Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>><br>
>> To: "<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>" <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>>,<br>
>> "<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID:<br>
>> <<br>
>> <a href="mailto:DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0@DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com" target="_blank">DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0@DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com</a><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>
>><br>
>> I would be very curious to hear from a legal perspective what - if any -<br>
>> legal liability AfriNIC has in a situation like this.<br>
>><br>
>> The fact is - space has value - and if space is stolen - used for spam or<br>
>> whatever else - and the reputation of said space is damaged - it?s value<br>
>> decreases. Now I fully realize that space can be hijacked - and at that<br>
>> point potentially the hijackers may hold the liability. However - when the<br>
>> space seems to have been stolen and sold off by a staff member of the<br>
>> organization that is meant in effect to the curator of the space - I<br>
>> question if there is not a liability issue at play if it can be proven that<br>
>> due care was not taken to safe guard against the actions taken.<br>
>><br>
>> I?m no lawyer though so I would really be interested to know the legal<br>
>> perspective - can an rir be held liable to the actions of its staff if it<br>
>> did not adequately protect against the actions taken.<br>
>><br>
>> Andrew<br>
>><br>
>> Get Outlook for iOS<<a href="https://aka.ms/o0ukef" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://aka.ms/o0ukef</a>><br>
>> ________________________________<br>
>> From: Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>><br>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 3:59:57 PM<br>
>> To: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a> <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to<br>
>> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting of<br>
>> non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.<br>
>><br>
>> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:<br>
>> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to<br>
>> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br>
>><br>
>> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and<br>
>> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
>><br>
>> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space<br>
>> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then<br>
>> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current<br>
>> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes<br>
>> may not have the desired outcome.<br>
>><br>
>> Mike<br>
>><br>
>> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a><mailto:<br>
>> <a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
>><br>
>> Mark.<br>
>><br>
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br>
>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br>
>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br>
>><br>
>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to<br>
>> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br>
>><br>
>> Thanks.<br>
>><br>
>> Sunday.<br>
>><br>
>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br>
>> news story.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
>> <<br>
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I<br>
>> only<br>
>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen<br>
>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
>> Regards,<br>
>> rfg<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><<br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><<br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><<br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>><br>
>> Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa<br>
>> <a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>> Tel:<br>
>> +27.826010496<tel:+27826010496><br>
>> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a><<br>
>> <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a>><br>
>><br>
>> [Posix Systems][VCARD for MJ Elkins]<br>
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>> ><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 5<br>
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:11:04 +0200<br>
>> From: Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>><br>
>> To: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17@seacom.mu" target="_blank">7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17@seacom.mu</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
>><br>
>> I don't disagree with that either.<br>
>><br>
>> I am certain AFRINIC are working on this, and I know there will be no<br>
>> shortage of queries about this from the field, much to our<br>
>> already-clogged e-mail boxes. I don't want to do the jobs of others; no<br>
>> one is doing mine for me.<br>
>><br>
>> My preferred current focus - your last paragraph, below.<br>
>><br>
>> Mark.<br>
>><br>
>> On 5/Dec/19 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:<br>
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears<br>
>> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem<br>
>> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how<br>
>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been<br>
>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of<br>
>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving<br>
>> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Mike<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a><br>
>> >> <mailto:<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>>> wrote:<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Mark.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
>> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br>
>> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br>
>> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see<br>
>> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Thanks.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Sunday.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the<br>
>> >>>> following<br>
>> >>>> news story.<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the<br>
>> >>>> moment, I only<br>
>> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br>
>> >>>> Vermeulen<br>
>> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
>> >>>> ? ? Regards,<br>
>> >>>> rfg<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> >>>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> >>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> >> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> >> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
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>> ><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 6<br>
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:54:21 +0100<br>
>> From: Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com" target="_blank">4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"<br>
>><br>
>> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest<br>
>> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy<br>
>> space.<br>
>><br>
>> The community has been informed that there is already some internal<br>
>> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things<br>
>> done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are<br>
>> established, the law should take its course and people should stand<br>
>> accountable for their deeds.<br>
>><br>
>> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund<br>
>> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7<br>
>> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover<br>
>> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active<br>
>> use, why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for<br>
>> the common good?<br>
>><br>
>> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal<br>
>> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.<br>
>><br>
>> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf<br>
>> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,<br>
>> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should<br>
>> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are<br>
>> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our<br>
>> time and intellect.<br>
>><br>
>> Sunday.<br>
>><br>
>> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:<br>
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears<br>
>> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem<br>
>> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how<br>
>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been<br>
>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of<br>
>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving<br>
>> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Mike<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a><br>
>> >> <mailto:<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>>> wrote:<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Mark.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
>> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br>
>> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br>
>> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see<br>
>> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Thanks.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Sunday.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the<br>
>> >>>> following<br>
>> >>>> news story.<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the<br>
>> >>>> moment, I only<br>
>> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br>
>> >>>> Vermeulen<br>
>> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
>> >>>> ? ? Regards,<br>
>> >>>> rfg<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> >>>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> >>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> >> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> >> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> --------------------------------------------------<br>
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br>
>> Managing Director<br>
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br>
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br>
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br>
>> Email: <a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br>
>> ---------------------------------------------------<br>
>><br>
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>> ><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 7<br>
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:15:59 +0200<br>
>> From: Omo Oaiya <<a href="mailto:Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net" target="_blank">Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net</a>><br>
>> To: Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID:<br>
>> <CAG1eoi3w-F2Ui-BfiKmBqYJ=<br>
>> <a href="mailto:srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
>><br>
>> I have to agree with this. As shocking and disappointing as the<br>
>> revelations<br>
>> might be, this makes the most sense to me.<br>
>><br>
>> Omo<br>
>><br>
>> On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, 20:56 Sunday Folayan, <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest<br>
>> > that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy<br>
>> > space.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal<br>
>> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things<br>
>> done.<br>
>> > I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are<br>
>> established,<br>
>> > the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for<br>
>> > their deeds.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund<br>
>> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7<br>
>> > years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover<br>
>> > the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active<br>
>> use,<br>
>> > why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the<br>
>> > common good?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal<br>
>> > department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by<br>
>> now.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf<br>
>> of<br>
>> > the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with<br>
>> > the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather<br>
>> > apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for<br>
>> > developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and<br>
>> > intellect.<br>
>> > Sunday.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to<br>
>> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem<br>
>> and<br>
>> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space<br>
>> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and<br>
>> then<br>
>> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current<br>
>> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those<br>
>> processes<br>
>> > may not have the desired outcome.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Mike<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>> wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Mark.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br>
>> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br>
>> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to<br>
>> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Thanks.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Sunday.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br>
>> > news story.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
>> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I<br>
>> > only<br>
>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br>
>> Vermeulen<br>
>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
>> > Regards,<br>
>> > rfg<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss@afrinic.nethttps://<br>
>> <a href="http://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > --<br>
>> > --------------------------------------------------<br>
>> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br>
>> > Managing Director<br>
>> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br>
>> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br>
>> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br>
>> > Email: <a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br>
>> > ---------------------------------------------------<br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> -------------- next part --------------<br>
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
>> URL: <<br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/582fac38/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/582fac38/attachment-0001.html</a><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 8<br>
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:28:06 +0100<br>
>> From: Sylvain Baya <<a href="mailto:abscoco@gmail.com" target="_blank">abscoco@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> To: "<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>" <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>>,<br>
>> "<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: [Community-Discuss] [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID:<br>
>> <<br>
>> <a href="mailto:CAJjTEvE%2BsHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS%2BAwyF6Kg@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CAJjTEvE+sHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS+AwyF6Kg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
>><br>
>> Hi all,<br>
>><br>
>> Le jeudi 5 d?cembre 2019, Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>> a ?crit :<br>
>><br>
>> > Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to<br>
>> > manipulate the non-legacy space -<br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>> Dear Mark,<br>
>> ...i agree !<br>
>><br>
>> yet it happened. In this case (looting of non-legacy space), the RSA has<br>
>> > meant nothing.<br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>> As you say, i take you on words ; then if the RSA (Registration Service<br>
>> Agreement) could<br>
>> easily be bypassed, how to deal with our 'emerged' problem ?<br>
>><br>
>> ...perhaps time to seriously reconsider the long life DPP (Draft Policy<br>
>> Proposal) [1] ?<br>
>> __<br>
>> [1]: <<a href="https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp</a>><br>
>><br>
>> Shalom,<br>
>> --sb.<br>
>><br>
>> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to<br>
>> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem<br>
>> and<br>
>> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space<br>
>> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and<br>
>> then<br>
>> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current<br>
>> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those<br>
>> processes<br>
>> > may not have the desired outcome.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Mike<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>> wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Mark.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br>
>> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br>
>> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to<br>
>> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Thanks.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Sunday.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br>
>> > news story.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html<br>
>> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I<br>
>> > only<br>
>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br>
>> Vermeulen<br>
>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
>> > Regards,<br>
>> > rfg<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss@afrinic.nethttps://<br>
>> <a href="http://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > --<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a> Tel: +27.826010496 <+27826010496><br>
>> > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > [image: Posix Systems][image: VCARD for MJ Elkins]<br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Best Regards !<br>
>> baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] | <<a href="https://www.cmnog.cm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.cmnog.cm</a>> | <<br>
>> <a href="https://survey.cmnog.cm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://survey.cmnog.cm</a>><br>
>> Subscribe to Mailing List : <<br>
>> <a href="https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/</a>><br>
>> __<br>
>> #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|?#?Romains15?:33?*Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec<br>
>> vous tous! ?#?Amen?!*?<br>
>> ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement?<br>
>> ?*Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire<br>
>> apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!*? (#Psaumes42:2)<br>
>> -------------- next part --------------<br>
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>> URL: <<br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/63b5ef24/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/63b5ef24/attachment-0001.html</a><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 9<br>
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:43:48 +0100<br>
>> From: Isabel Odida <<a href="mailto:isabel.odida@gmail.com" target="_blank">isabel.odida@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
>> Cc: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D@gmail.com" target="_blank">6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
>><br>
>> I know what sparked this story. Some people have no chill. How convenient<br>
>> following the last meeting in June. Ok, and then what? What have you<br>
>> benefited?<br>
>><br>
>> Sent from my iPhone<br>
>><br>
>> > On 4 Dec 2019, at 18:23, Ronald F. Guilmette <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br>
>> > news story.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I<br>
>> only<br>
>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br>
>> Vermeulen<br>
>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > Regards,<br>
>> > rfg<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 10<br>
>> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:44:58 -0800<br>
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:18818.1575585898@segfault.tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">18818.1575585898@segfault.tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
>><br>
>> In message <<a href="mailto:4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com" target="_blank">4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com</a>>,<br>
>> Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> >The community has been informed that there is already some internal<br>
>> >investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things<br>
>> >done.<br>
>><br>
>> Mr. Folayan,<br>
>><br>
>> These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,<br>
>> 2019, a full three months ago. Since that time there has not been a<br>
>> single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,<br>
>> or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague assurances<br>
>> that these matters are being looked into.<br>
>><br>
>> Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns<br>
>> about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full<br>
>> three years ago.<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html</a><br>
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html</a><br>
>><br>
>> I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again<br>
>> repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,<br>
>> albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention<br>
>> paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any<br>
>> concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html</a><br>
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html</a><br>
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html</a><br>
>><br>
>> At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly<br>
>> in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive<br>
>> issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to<br>
>> entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it<br>
>> were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the<br>
>> courageous reporting of <a href="http://MyBroadband.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">MyBroadband.co.za</a>. Neither the board nor<br>
>> the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any<br>
>> clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will<br>
>> either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders<br>
>> and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive<br>
>> any of the findings that it may reach. And yet despite having had<br>
>> either three full months or three full years to look into these<br>
>> matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and<br>
>> despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming<br>
>> from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.<br>
>><br>
>> This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the<br>
>> community's patience to come to an end? Does the community have any<br>
>> assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another<br>
>> three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield<br>
>> anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the<br>
>> current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions<br>
>> of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?<br>
>><br>
>> On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at long<br>
>> last be forthcoming?<br>
>><br>
>> >I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are<br>
>> >established, the law should take its course and people should stand<br>
>> >accountable for their deeds.<br>
>><br>
>> This assertion on your part begs four further questions:<br>
>><br>
>> 1) Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented<br>
>> in the <a href="http://MyBroadband.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">MyBroadband.co.za</a> article, the majority of which were drawn from<br>
>> publicly available sources including open government records, what more<br>
>> will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and intentions<br>
>> are established"? What parts of the abundant documentary evidence already<br>
>> presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?<br>
>><br>
>> 2) If, as asserted in the <a href="http://MyBroadband.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">MyBroadband.co.za</a> article, it can be<br>
>> persuasively<br>
>> demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in fact<br>
>> purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC<br>
>> itself is one of the aggrieved parties? And if so, would you hope and<br>
>> expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and<br>
>> all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?<br>
>><br>
>> 3) Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and<br>
>> endemic<br>
>> within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do you<br>
>> have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all<br>
>> likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?<br>
>><br>
>> 4) What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-<br>
>> documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from<br>
>> AFRINIC's own free pool? Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed by<br>
>> AFRINIC? Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever they<br>
>> may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty<br>
>> on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?<br>
>><br>
>> >I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund<br>
>> >organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7<br>
>> >years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover<br>
>> >the manipulations.<br>
>><br>
>> On this point, you and I are in complete agreement. "The system", such<br>
>> as it is, is quite self-evidently broken. But this raises the further<br>
>> question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at<br>
>> AFRINIC,<br>
>> while all of this was going on. Is it even plausible that a single bad<br>
>> actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars<br>
>> worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a<br>
>> several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC<br>
>> staff even noticed any of this?<br>
>><br>
>> >For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal<br>
>> >department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by<br>
>> now.<br>
>><br>
>> See above. Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with<br>
>> respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself. No other<br>
>> single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much<br>
>> valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself. And yet we have, as yet, no<br>
>> clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff<br>
>> member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone<br>
>> that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated<br>
>> by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.<br>
>><br>
>> If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.<br>
>><br>
>> >While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf<br>
>> >of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,<br>
>> >with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should<br>
>> >rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are<br>
>> >available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our<br>
>> >time and intellect.<br>
>><br>
>> See above. With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we<br>
>> may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"? I have<br>
>> so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any<br>
>> document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of<br>
>> AFRINIC. In fact, quite the opposite. I see that a purported three<br>
>> month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly<br>
>> reporting on so far. I see an attempt to shift the blame for this<br>
>> colossal<br>
>> and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders<br>
>> while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of<br>
>> AFRINIC itself. I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action<br>
>> will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a<br>
>> backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general<br>
>> disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific<br>
>> national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.<br>
>><br>
>> For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,<br>
>> Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.<br>
>> The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and<br>
>> to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or<br>
>> placed<br>
>> under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to all.<br>
>> AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding<br>
>> responsibility.<br>
>><br>
>> I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively<br>
>> remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing<br>
>> after-effects. I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now<br>
>> evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the carpet<br>
>> will no longer be considered a vialble option.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>> rfg<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> P.S. I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower" in<br>
>> this context Mr. Folayan. That term is usually used in reference to some<br>
>> insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed<br>
>> first-hand some malfeasance. Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this<br>
>> description. Rather, we have labored as outsiders only. We have not<br>
>> been privy to any "inside" information. Quite the opposite in fact. We<br>
>> have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests<br>
>> for information by AFRINIC staff.<br>
>><br>
>> Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our<br>
>> reasonable<br>
>> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.<br>
>> Exactly<br>
>> such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other<br>
>> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists upon<br>
>> request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such unredacted<br>
>> WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were rejected<br>
>> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved policy<br>
>> was cited as the basis for the denial.<br>
>><br>
>> At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate explanation<br>
>> for<br>
>> this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be<br>
>> granted at long last. Certain portions of my research cannot be completed<br>
>> without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis<br>
>> for<br>
>> the rejection of such requests.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> P.P.S. As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the<br>
>> numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place. I feel<br>
>> compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been<br>
>> double-victimized in at least two specific instances.<br>
>><br>
>> First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4<br>
>> blocks "liberated" from its free pool. Secondarily and even more<br>
>> insultingly<br>
>> however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also<br>
>> arranged<br>
>> to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be associated<br>
>> with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other<br>
>> legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4<br>
>> allocations.<br>
>><br>
>> I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy <a href="http://168.80.0.0/15" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">168.80.0.0/15</a> block,<br>
>> registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the<br>
>> non-legacy<br>
>> <a href="http://196.16.0.0/14" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">196.16.0.0/14</a> block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.<br>
>> These<br>
>> blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six million<br>
>> U.S. dollars.<br>
>><br>
>> As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD<br>
>> mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as MEMBER-ONLY,<br>
>> as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any<br>
>> actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to<br>
>> AFRINIC.<br>
>><br>
>> I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this<br>
>> regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it does<br>
>> appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-<br>
>> stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years<br>
>> on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be due<br>
>> on these IPv4 assignments.<br>
>><br>
>> Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further<br>
>> clarification<br>
>> with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been<br>
>> collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for<br>
>> any year since their allocation to and association with the organizations<br>
>> noted.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 11<br>
>> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 17:24:26 -0800<br>
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
>> To: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:19435.1575595466@segfault.tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">19435.1575595466@segfault.tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
>><br>
>> In message <<a href="mailto:6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D@gmail.com" target="_blank">6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D@gmail.com</a>>,<br>
>> Isabel Odida <<a href="mailto:isabel.odida@gmail.com" target="_blank">isabel.odida@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> >I know what sparked this story.<br>
>><br>
>> If you have something to say, then you have our attention and the floor.<br>
>> Please proceed.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>> rfg<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 12<br>
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 10:04:06 +0100<br>
>> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>><br>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es" target="_blank">79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
>><br>
>> Hi Sunday, all,<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let me<br>
>> tell why.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My first<br>
>> AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly after,<br>
>> during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could contribute to<br>
>> the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and joining Ernest in his<br>
>> trips to do the Registration Services training so I do IPv6 trainings.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos, I<br>
>> was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the Madrid<br>
>> Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from Sunday, I could<br>
>> resolve that on the next day and flight again to do the training.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,<br>
>> and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been doing<br>
>> those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been able to take<br>
>> advantage of that.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as well<br>
>> as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much together,<br>
>> you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost 15 years. Of<br>
>> course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a hidden face. As<br>
>> humans, we all have positive and negative things. But I?m really shocked, I<br>
>> still resist to believe it.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the position<br>
>> of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use<br>
>> your own name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe<br>
>> someone,? may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to<br>
>> appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly and<br>
>> non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean he is<br>
>> still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or something<br>
>> similar.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents. If<br>
>> you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and<br>
>> may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and<br>
>> involvement an all this.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal interest.<br>
>> My only interest is to know the *real true* and I?m sure everybody agrees<br>
>> on that.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so no<br>
>> doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very<br>
>> thankful for that.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>><br>
>> Jordi<br>
>><br>
>> @jordipalet<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> escribi?:<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest<br>
>> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy<br>
>> space.<br>
>><br>
>> The community has been informed that there is already some internal<br>
>> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things done.<br>
>> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are established,<br>
>> the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for<br>
>> their deeds.<br>
>><br>
>> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund<br>
>> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7<br>
>> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover<br>
>> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active use,<br>
>> why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the<br>
>> common good?<br>
>><br>
>> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal<br>
>> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.<br>
>><br>
>> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf of<br>
>> the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with<br>
>> the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather<br>
>> apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for<br>
>> developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and<br>
>> intellect.<br>
>><br>
>> Sunday.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to<br>
>> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and<br>
>> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space<br>
>> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then<br>
>> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current<br>
>> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes<br>
>> may not have the desired outcome.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Mike<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
>><br>
>> Mark.<br>
>><br>
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br>
>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br>
>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br>
>><br>
>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to<br>
>> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br>
>><br>
>> Thanks.<br>
>><br>
>> Sunday.<br>
>><br>
>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br>
>> news story.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
>> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I<br>
>> only<br>
>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen<br>
>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
>> Regards,<br>
>> rfg<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> --<br>
>> --------------------------------------------------<br>
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br>
>> Managing Director<br>
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br>
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br>
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br>
>> Email: <a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br>
>> ---------------------------------------------------<br>
>> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing<br>
>> list <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> **********************************************<br>
>> IPv4 is over<br>
>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
>> <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
>> The IPv6 Company<br>
>><br>
>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or<br>
>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of<br>
>> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized<br>
>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this<br>
>> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly<br>
>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the<br>
>> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or<br>
>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including<br>
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>> communication and delete it.<br>
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>> ><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 13<br>
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:16:03 +0100<br>
>> From: Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>>, General Discussions<br>
>> of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com" target="_blank">4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed<br>
>><br>
>> Dear Mr Guilmette,<br>
>><br>
>> Regrettably, I do not monitor the press, but selected channels such as<br>
>> this list. It seems I got your attention, or you got my attention, or we<br>
>> both got each other's attention. Let us therefore maximize the possession.<br>
>><br>
>> Important and interesting questions, that you have raised in this email.<br>
>> Let us put some punch in it. Kindly change the TO: field to<br>
>> <a href="mailto:ceo@afrinic.net" target="_blank">ceo@afrinic.net</a>, and cc the Community just to make sure it is not<br>
>> ignored, then resend it. I am sure the CEO will answer all the questions<br>
>> you here posed to me. Pity he has to start his tenure with these hard<br>
>> nuts and curveballs, but he is capable. He speaks for the Company, not me.<br>
>><br>
>> I am equally sure that the Community appreciates the great work done,<br>
>> and no one supports the exposed fraud. You are a stakeholder, and not<br>
>> some casual bystander so please note this. What you conveniently<br>
>> ignored, is that the #1 accused company insider is the eye of the<br>
>> company on the policy lists, where you raised the issues.<br>
>><br>
>> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should<br>
>> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more<br>
>> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.<br>
>> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.<br>
>><br>
>> My use of the term "Whistleblowers" is appropriate, as I looked at one<br>
>> of your reference links, and indeed, someone confirmed to you privately<br>
>> that your hunch is right. If you do not claim the honour, they should,<br>
>> because you rightly built on their work!<br>
>><br>
>> Great job you are doing.<br>
>><br>
>> Have a great day.<br>
>><br>
>> Sunday.<br>
>><br>
>> On 05/12/2019 23:44, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>> > In message <<a href="mailto:4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com" target="_blank">4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com</a>>,<br>
>> > Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal<br>
>> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things<br>
>> >> done.<br>
>> > Mr. Folayan,<br>
>> ><br>
>> > These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,<br>
>> > 2019, a full three months ago. Since that time there has not been a<br>
>> > single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,<br>
>> > or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague<br>
>> assurances<br>
>> > that these matters are being looked into.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns<br>
>> > about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full<br>
>> > three years ago.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again<br>
>> > repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,<br>
>> > albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention<br>
>> > paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any<br>
>> > concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly<br>
>> > in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive<br>
>> > issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to<br>
>> > entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it<br>
>> > were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the<br>
>> > courageous reporting of <a href="http://MyBroadband.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">MyBroadband.co.za</a>. Neither the board nor<br>
>> > the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any<br>
>> > clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will<br>
>> > either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders<br>
>> > and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive<br>
>> > any of the findings that it may reach. And yet despite having had<br>
>> > either three full months or three full years to look into these<br>
>> > matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and<br>
>> > despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming<br>
>> > from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the<br>
>> > community's patience to come to an end? Does the community have any<br>
>> > assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another<br>
>> > three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield<br>
>> > anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the<br>
>> > current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions<br>
>> > of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at<br>
>> long<br>
>> > last be forthcoming?<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are<br>
>> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand<br>
>> >> accountable for their deeds.<br>
>> > This assertion on your part begs four further questions:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > 1) Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented<br>
>> > in the <a href="http://MyBroadband.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">MyBroadband.co.za</a> article, the majority of which were drawn from<br>
>> > publicly available sources including open government records, what more<br>
>> > will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and<br>
>> intentions<br>
>> > are established"? What parts of the abundant documentary evidence<br>
>> already<br>
>> > presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > 2) If, as asserted in the <a href="http://MyBroadband.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">MyBroadband.co.za</a> article, it can be<br>
>> persuasively<br>
>> > demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in<br>
>> fact<br>
>> > purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC<br>
>> > itself is one of the aggrieved parties? And if so, would you hope and<br>
>> > expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and<br>
>> > all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > 3) Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and<br>
>> endemic<br>
>> > within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do<br>
>> you<br>
>> > have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all<br>
>> > likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > 4) What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-<br>
>> > documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from<br>
>> > AFRINIC's own free pool? Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed<br>
>> by<br>
>> > AFRINIC? Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever<br>
>> they<br>
>> > may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty<br>
>> > on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund<br>
>> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7<br>
>> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to<br>
>> discover<br>
>> >> the manipulations.<br>
>> > On this point, you and I are in complete agreement. "The system", such<br>
>> > as it is, is quite self-evidently broken. But this raises the further<br>
>> > question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at<br>
>> AFRINIC,<br>
>> > while all of this was going on. Is it even plausible that a single bad<br>
>> > actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars<br>
>> > worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a<br>
>> > several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC<br>
>> > staff even noticed any of this?<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal<br>
>> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by<br>
>> now.<br>
>> > See above. Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with<br>
>> > respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself. No other<br>
>> > single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much<br>
>> > valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself. And yet we have, as yet, no<br>
>> > clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff<br>
>> > member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone<br>
>> > that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated<br>
>> > by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf<br>
>> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,<br>
>> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should<br>
>> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are<br>
>> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of<br>
>> our<br>
>> >> time and intellect.<br>
>> > See above. With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we<br>
>> > may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"? I<br>
>> have<br>
>> > so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any<br>
>> > document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of<br>
>> > AFRINIC. In fact, quite the opposite. I see that a purported three<br>
>> > month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly<br>
>> > reporting on so far. I see an attempt to shift the blame for this<br>
>> colossal<br>
>> > and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders<br>
>> > while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of<br>
>> > AFRINIC itself. I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action<br>
>> > will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a<br>
>> > backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general<br>
>> > disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific<br>
>> > national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,<br>
>> > Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.<br>
>> > The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and<br>
>> > to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or<br>
>> placed<br>
>> > under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to<br>
>> all.<br>
>> > AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding<br>
>> responsibility.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively<br>
>> > remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing<br>
>> > after-effects. I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now<br>
>> > evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the<br>
>> carpet<br>
>> > will no longer be considered a vialble option.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > Regards,<br>
>> > rfg<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > P.S. I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower"<br>
>> in<br>
>> > this context Mr. Folayan. That term is usually used in reference to<br>
>> some<br>
>> > insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed<br>
>> > first-hand some malfeasance. Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this<br>
>> > description. Rather, we have labored as outsiders only. We have not<br>
>> > been privy to any "inside" information. Quite the opposite in fact. We<br>
>> > have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests<br>
>> > for information by AFRINIC staff.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our<br>
>> reasonable<br>
>> > requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.<br>
>> Exactly<br>
>> > such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other<br>
>> > Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists<br>
>> upon<br>
>> > request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such<br>
>> unredacted<br>
>> > WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were<br>
>> rejected<br>
>> > out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved<br>
>> policy<br>
>> > was cited as the basis for the denial.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate<br>
>> explanation for<br>
>> > this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be<br>
>> > granted at long last. Certain portions of my research cannot be<br>
>> completed<br>
>> > without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis<br>
>> for<br>
>> > the rejection of such requests.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > P.P.S. As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the<br>
>> > numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place. I feel<br>
>> > compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been<br>
>> > double-victimized in at least two specific instances.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4<br>
>> > blocks "liberated" from its free pool. Secondarily and even more<br>
>> insultingly<br>
>> > however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also<br>
>> arranged<br>
>> > to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be<br>
>> associated<br>
>> > with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other<br>
>> > legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4<br>
>> > allocations.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy <a href="http://168.80.0.0/15" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">168.80.0.0/15</a><br>
>> block,<br>
>> > registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the<br>
>> non-legacy<br>
>> > <a href="http://196.16.0.0/14" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">196.16.0.0/14</a> block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.<br>
>> These<br>
>> > blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six<br>
>> million<br>
>> > U.S. dollars.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD<br>
>> > mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as<br>
>> MEMBER-ONLY,<br>
>> > as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any<br>
>> > actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to<br>
>> > AFRINIC.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this<br>
>> > regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it<br>
>> does<br>
>> > appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-<br>
>> > stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years<br>
>> > on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be<br>
>> due<br>
>> > on these IPv4 assignments.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further<br>
>> clarification<br>
>> > with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been<br>
>> > collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for<br>
>> > any year since their allocation to and association with the<br>
>> organizations<br>
>> > noted.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> --------------------------------------------------<br>
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br>
>> Managing Director<br>
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br>
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br>
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br>
>> Email: <a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br>
>> ---------------------------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 14<br>
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:07:01 -0800<br>
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:21084.1575626821@segfault.tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">21084.1575626821@segfault.tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
>><br>
>> Mr. Folayan,<br>
>><br>
>> Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful response.<br>
>><br>
>> At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond<br>
>> what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> In message <<a href="mailto:4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com" target="_blank">4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com</a>>,<br>
>> Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> >I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should<br>
>> >conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more<br>
>> >honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.<br>
>> >It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.<br>
>><br>
>> Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.<br>
>><br>
>> Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see<br>
>> the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC. That is quite certainly not a<br>
>> goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as<br>
>> you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder<br>
>> should wish for. AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global<br>
>> Internet governance. I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.<br>
>> No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a<br>
>> few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second. And to use an<br>
>> even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing<br>
>> smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than<br>
>> I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.<br>
>><br>
>> If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being<br>
>> formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested<br>
>> that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already<br>
>> sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being<br>
>> preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere. Now I may stand on the comfortable<br>
>> shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but<br>
>> I do not question the utility of the journey.<br>
>><br>
>> The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters<br>
>> of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose. Time will<br>
>> tell if that is an accurate assesment.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>> rfg<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 15<br>
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:14:31 +0100<br>
>> From: Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>>, General<br>
>> Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed@gmail.com" target="_blank">8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br>
>><br>
>> Good points Jordi, and thanks for the throwback on the very many amazing<br>
>> sacrifices we all made, to grow the Internet in Africa.<br>
>><br>
>> I will resist asking Ernest to defend himself here, We are not<br>
>> constituted as a competent jury, neither do we want to compromise the<br>
>> ongoing investigations.<br>
>><br>
>> Questions are appropriate, so will be his own admissions or rebuttals,<br>
>> when the investigations are completed.<br>
>><br>
>> I may be wrong, but that is my own expectations and position.<br>
>><br>
>> Sunday.<br>
>><br>
>> On 06/12/2019 10:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Hi Sunday, all,<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let<br>
>> > me tell why.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My<br>
>> > first AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly<br>
>> > after, during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could<br>
>> > contribute to the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and<br>
>> > joining Ernest in his trips to do the Registration Services training<br>
>> > so I do IPv6 trainings.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos,<br>
>> > I was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the<br>
>> > Madrid Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from<br>
>> > Sunday, I could resolve that on the next day and flight again to do<br>
>> > the training.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,<br>
>> > and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been<br>
>> > doing those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been<br>
>> > able to take advantage of that.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as<br>
>> > well as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much<br>
>> > together, you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost<br>
>> > 15 years. Of course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a<br>
>> > hidden face. As humans, we all have positive and negative things. But<br>
>> > I?m really shocked, I still resist to believe it.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the<br>
>> > position of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think<br>
>> > you will use your own name for registering companies, or instead you<br>
>> > will bribe someone, may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your<br>
>> > family name to appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly<br>
>> > and non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean<br>
>> > he is still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or<br>
>> > something similar.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents.<br>
>> > If you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,<br>
>> > and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and<br>
>> > involvement an all this.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal<br>
>> > interest. My only interest is to know the **real true** and I?m sure<br>
>> > everybody agrees on that.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so<br>
>> > no doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very<br>
>> > thankful for that.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Regards,<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Jordi<br>
>> ><br>
>> > @jordipalet<br>
>> ><br>
>> > El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br>
>> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>>> escribi?:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway<br>
>> > suggest that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only<br>
>> > on legacy space.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal<br>
>> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things<br>
>> > done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are<br>
>> > established, the law should take its course and people should stand<br>
>> > accountable for their deeds.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund<br>
>> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of<br>
>> > 7 years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to<br>
>> > discover the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or<br>
>> > in active use, why would or should they not have been returned to the<br>
>> > Registry for the common good?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their<br>
>> > legal department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with<br>
>> > gusto by now.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf<br>
>> > of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,<br>
>> > with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should<br>
>> > rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are<br>
>> > available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of<br>
>> > our time and intellect.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Sunday.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there<br>
>> > appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy<br>
>> > space.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the<br>
>> > problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how<br>
>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been<br>
>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of<br>
>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then<br>
>> > moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired<br>
>> > outcome.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Mike<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a><br>
>> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>>> wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Mark.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically<br>
>> > ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet<br>
>> > in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces<br>
>> > under some form of RSA?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let<br>
>> > us see how to help and empower the people doing useful<br>
>> > work for Africa.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Thanks.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Sunday.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think<br>
>> > about the following<br>
>> > news story.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > ? I will have more to say about this in due course.?<br>
>> > For the moment, I only<br>
>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by<br>
>> > myself and Jan Vermeulen<br>
>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
>> > ? ? Regards,<br>
>> > rfg<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> ><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> ><br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> ><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > --<br>
>> > --------------------------------------------------<br>
>> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br>
>> > Managing Director<br>
>> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br>
>> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br>
>> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Email%3Asfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank">Email:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>>,<br>
>> <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> > ---------------------------------------------------<br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss<br>
>> > mailing list <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > **********************************************<br>
>> > IPv4 is over<br>
>> > Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
>> > <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
>> > The IPv6 Company<br>
>> ><br>
>> > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged<br>
>> > or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive<br>
>> > use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty<br>
>> > authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of<br>
>> > this information, even if partially, including attached files, is<br>
>> > strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you<br>
>> > are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,<br>
>> > distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if<br>
>> > partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be<br>
>> > considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original<br>
>> > sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> --------------------------------------------------<br>
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br>
>> Managing Director<br>
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br>
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br>
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br>
>> Email: <a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br>
>> ---------------------------------------------------<br>
>><br>
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>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/8c6c63d5/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/8c6c63d5/attachment-0001.html</a><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 16<br>
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 12:17:52 +0200<br>
>> From: Omo Oaiya <<a href="mailto:Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net" target="_blank">Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net</a>><br>
>> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>><br>
>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88@wacren.net" target="_blank">14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88@wacren.net</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> > On 6 Dec 2019, at 11:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <<br>
>> <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,<br>
>> and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and<br>
>> involvement an all this.<br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> :-) Might as well setup a confession booth and provide absolution of<br>
>> souls. On a serious note, we need a proper investigation. Let?s wait to<br>
>> hear from the CEO<br>
>><br>
>> Omo<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> -------------- next part --------------<br>
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>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/4e0f75fc/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/4e0f75fc/attachment-0001.html</a><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 17<br>
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:21:40 +0100<br>
>> From: Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>>, General Discussions<br>
>> of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10@gmail.com" target="_blank">c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed<br>
>><br>
>> Dear Mr Guilmette,<br>
>><br>
>> On 06/12/2019 11:07, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>> > Mr. Folayan,<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful<br>
>> response.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond<br>
>> > what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > In message <<a href="mailto:4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com" target="_blank">4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com</a>>,<br>
>> > Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should<br>
>> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more<br>
>> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking<br>
>> stakeholder.<br>
>> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.<br>
>> > Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see<br>
>> > the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC. That is quite certainly not a<br>
>> > goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as<br>
>> > you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder<br>
>> > should wish for. AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global<br>
>> > Internet governance. I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.<br>
>> > No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a<br>
>> > few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second. And to use an<br>
>> > even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing<br>
>> > smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than<br>
>> > I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being<br>
>> > formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested<br>
>> > that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already<br>
>> > sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being<br>
>> > preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere. Now I may stand on the comfortable<br>
>> > shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but<br>
>> > I do not question the utility of the journey.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters<br>
>> > of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose. Time will<br>
>> > tell if that is an accurate assesment.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> This is most assuring and comforting at the same time.<br>
>><br>
>> If I have sounded off-key, please accept my sincere apologies, and thank<br>
>> you very much for the good job you have done for the community so far.<br>
>> History will never forget your role and progressive disposition at this<br>
>> point in time.<br>
>><br>
>> When AfriNIC was being formed, the challenges of today, were not<br>
>> envisioned in the very many ways that they now present themselves.<br>
>> Africa has come a long way. Unfortunately, there are still many more<br>
>> oceans to cross, but we will all band together as a purposeful fleet.<br>
>> That is how we can all weather the storms that may come, but sure they<br>
>> will come.<br>
>><br>
>> With kind Regards ...<br>
>><br>
>> Sunday.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 18<br>
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:58:27 -0800<br>
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:21283.1575629907@segfault.tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">21283.1575629907@segfault.tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
>><br>
>> In message <<a href="mailto:79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es" target="_blank">79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es</a>>,<br>
>> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> >I also believe that he is a smart guy.<br>
>><br>
>> I would not dispute that characterization in the slightest.<br>
>><br>
>> >So, put yourself in the position of<br>
>> >a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use<br>
>> your o<br>
>> >wn name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe<br>
>> someone,=C2=A0<br>
>> > may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear in<br>
>> an<br>
>> >y documents? I feel this is really silly and non-understandable.<br>
>><br>
>> And yet it seemed to work, for years on end, with no one raising so much<br>
>> as an eyebrow because nobody seriously investigated or seriously looked<br>
>> at all of the relevant corporate documents and WHOIS records and, in<br>
>> particular, the historical WHOIS records, including but not limited to<br>
>> these ones:<br>
>><br>
>> ORG-AI2-AFRINIC <a href="https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD</a><br>
>> ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC <a href="https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB</a><br>
>> ORG-IA41-AFRINIC <a href="https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP</a><br>
>> ORG-ZZ139-AFRINIC <a href="https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW</a><br>
>> ORG-ZZ23-AFRINIC <a href="https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N</a><br>
>><br>
>> I have been chasing down miscreants on the Internet for more than 20 years<br>
>> now. One of the lessons I have learned in that time is that none of them<br>
>> are ten feet tall, and the majority of them absolutely suck at OPSEC. It<br>
>> is almost as if some part of them is deluding their own brains into the<br>
>> false belief that what they are doing is not really wrong, in some<br>
>> sense, and that they are somehow actually entitled to the stuff they are<br>
>> stealing, and that thus, at some level, they don't actually need to hide<br>
>> what they are doing all that throughly, because just as White House Chief<br>
>> of Staff Mick Mulvaney did not long ago... much to the shock of<br>
>> everyone...<br>
>> if they are ever caught and confronted they assume that they will just say<br>
>> "Yea. So? We do that all of the time. Get over it!"<br>
>><br>
>> >So maybe<br>
>> >somebody used him, which doesn=E2=80=99t mean he is still guilty<br>
>> =E2=80=9Cin<br>
>> >vigilando=E2=80=9D because he trusted anyone else, or something similar.<br>
>><br>
>> It's a nice thought, and you are a generous person to allow this<br>
>> possibility<br>
>> Jordi. All I can say is that other information, not yet made public,<br>
>> appears to rule out the possibility that Mr. Byaruhanga was either an<br>
>> unwitting stooge or a convenient fall guy.<br>
>><br>
>> >Do we believe in =E2=80=9Cpresumption of innocence=E2=80=9D? I do,<br>
>> despite<br>
>> >documents. If you don=E2=80=99t know the complete background, documents<br>
>> may<br>
>> >not be enough.<br>
>><br>
>> I agree.<br>
>><br>
>> That having been said, I hope that you will, as I have, spend some time<br>
>> carefully scrutinizing both the current and historical WHOIS records<br>
>> associated with the ORGanizations and the IPv4 blocks listed in the two<br>
>> tables in Jan's article. If you do that, I think that you will be, as<br>
>> I was, hard pressed to explain all of the quite glaring anomalies in<br>
>> any way that does not involve a great deal of very deliberate malfesance<br>
>> on somebody's part. Once you are convinced of that, then the question<br>
>> becomes: Who is responsible? And it is at that point that the various<br>
>> official governmental corporate registration records would seem to become<br>
>> very relevant.<br>
>><br>
>> >So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and<br>
>> >may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and<br>
>> involvement<br>
>> >an all this.<br>
>><br>
>> I would like to echo that sentiment.<br>
>><br>
>> Jan Vermeulen and myself have tried, repeatedly, and over some significant<br>
>> time now to reach him, both via voice, at a number of different phone<br>
>> numbers<br>
>> that we have identified as being associated with him, and also via email,<br>
>> at various of his known email addresses, and we have been utterly unable<br>
>> to<br>
>> do so. We both very much look forward to speaking with him and getting<br>
>> his<br>
>> side of the story, if he has one.<br>
>><br>
>> That having been said, we cannot be blamed, I think, for reaching certain<br>
>> reasonable conclusions when Jan's industry sources informed him, less than<br>
>> a day after I had attempted to confront Ernest, via email, with the facts<br>
>> arrayed against him, that he had abruptly resigned his position at AFRINIC<br>
>> after 15 years on the job.<br>
>><br>
>> His abrupt resignation was and remains his only apparent response to our<br>
>> inquiries.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>> rfg<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 19<br>
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 03:16:57 -0800<br>
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:21648.1575631017@segfault.tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">21648.1575631017@segfault.tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
>><br>
>> In message <<a href="mailto:14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88@wacren.net" target="_blank">14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88@wacren.net</a>>,<br>
>> Omo Oaiya <<a href="mailto:Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net" target="_blank">Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> >On a serious note, we need a proper investigation. Let's<br>
>> >wait to hear from the CEO<br>
>><br>
>> Have any of us been doing otherwise, for lo these past three months now?<br>
>><br>
>> Have we been afforded any other choice in the matter?<br>
>><br>
>> Can AFRINIC clean its own stables?<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>> rfg<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Subject: Digest Footer<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
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>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1<br>
>> *************************************************<br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> *Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb*<br>
> *<a href="mailto:muyiwacaleb@gmail.com" target="_blank">muyiwacaleb@gmail.com</a> <<a href="mailto:muyiwacaleb@gmail.com" target="_blank">muyiwacaleb@gmail.com</a>>*<br>
> *234 - 8077377378*<br>
> *234 - 07030777969*<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:56:27 +0000<br>
From: Arnaud AMELINA <<a href="mailto:amelnaud@gmail.com" target="_blank">amelnaud@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank">owen@delong.com</a>><br>
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>>,<br>
Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <<a href="mailto:muyiwacaleb@gmail.com" target="_blank">muyiwacaleb@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547,<br>
Issue 1<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAGDMR_cw7qBFFC=jd60noD=<a href="mailto:DPAgiPwY1ozQCaG77Ax29ELZikA@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">DPAgiPwY1ozQCaG77Ax29ELZikA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Hi Community,<br>
<br>
Policy or not, will not prevent AFRINIC from reviewing resources if<br>
complaints provide enough evidences. We just saw allegations/complaints<br>
in press which trigger reviews.<br>
The review policy proposal is intended to provide community approved ways<br>
of reviews for fairness, transparency. Lack of community approved review<br>
policy may have led to media complaint induced review.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
--<br>
Arnaud<br>
<br>
Le dim. 8 d?c. 2019 ? 18:50, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank">owen@delong.com</a>> a ?crit :<br>
<br>
><br>
><br>
> policy or not will not prevent afrinic from reviewing resources if<br>
> complaints provide enough evidences. We just saw allegations/complaints<br>
> in press which trigger reviews.<br>
><br>
> The review policy proposal is intended to provide community approved ways<br>
> of reviews for fairness, transparency. Lack of community approved review<br>
> policy may have led to media complaint induced reviewOn Dec 6, 2019, at<br>
> 07:46 , Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <<a href="mailto:muyiwacaleb@gmail.com" target="_blank">muyiwacaleb@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Dear Ronald,<br>
><br>
> So I read where this comment below was attributed to you.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *>?Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our<br>
> reasonable> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS<br>
> database. Exactly> such unredacted database dumps *are* provided by all of<br>
> the four other> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and<br>
> journalists upon> request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly<br>
> such unredacted> WHOIS database dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our<br>
> requests were rejected> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any<br>
> community-approved policy> was cited as the basis for the denial.?*<br>
> While not taking brief for AFRINIC or any of its staff, I feel you should<br>
> know that AFRINIC?s operation is also being governed by Mauritius data<br>
> protection law.<br>
> Mauritius regulates data protection under the Data Protection Act 2017<br>
> (DPA 2017 or Act), proclaimed through Proclamation No. 3 of 2018, effective<br>
> January 15, 2018. The Act repeals and replaces the Data Protection Act<br>
> 2004, so as to align with the European Union General Data Protection<br>
> Regulation 2016/679 (GDPR).<br>
><br>
> Even if you are not familiar with Mauritius law, the EU GDPR which is more<br>
> popular should tell you the implication of revealing a WHOIS database to a<br>
> non-state prosecutorial actor like yourself who does not have a court<br>
> warrant to see the redacted sections you seek. Please correct me if I?m<br>
> wrong in my legal analysis of your request.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Whois is data that is published generally, so your comments here about DPR<br>
> don?t really apply.<br>
><br>
> Such WHOIS dumps are available from RIPE, so I don?t think it is a GDPR<br>
> issue at all.<br>
><br>
> Perhaps, isn?t it time for the community to revisit the Internet Number<br>
> Resources review policy<br>
> <<a href="https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal</a>> which was not<br>
> on the docket for policy at this just-concluded meeting?<br>
> <a href="https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> No? The resource review policy would do absolutely nothing to help here.<br>
><br>
> We might be doing something right this time if that policy will allow for<br>
> a diligent review of resources including the legacy ones.<br>
><br>
><br>
> That policy does not provide for any review that AfriNIC cannot currently<br>
> do. All it does is provide a vector for a unique form of Denial Of Service<br>
> attack against larger organizations in the form of a complaint-induced<br>
> resource review.<br>
><br>
> Let us please not conflate this issue with an utterly and completely<br>
> unrelated policy effort aimed at weaponizing AfriNIC to allow one subset of<br>
> the membership to attack another.<br>
><br>
> Owen<br>
><br>
><br>
> Regards<br>
><br>
> Caleb Ogundele<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 12:17 PM <<a href="mailto:community-discuss-request@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss-request@afrinic.net</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to<br>
>> <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>><br>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
>> <a href="mailto:community-discuss-request@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss-request@afrinic.net</a><br>
>><br>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
>> <a href="mailto:community-discuss-owner@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss-owner@afrinic.net</a><br>
>><br>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
>> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Today's Topics:<br>
>><br>
>> 1. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)<br>
>> 2. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mike Silber)<br>
>> 3. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Elkins)<br>
>> 4. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Andrew Alston)<br>
>> 5. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)<br>
>> 6. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)<br>
>> 7. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)<br>
>> 8. [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC (Sylvain Baya)<br>
>> 9. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Isabel Odida)<br>
>> 10. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)<br>
>> 11. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)<br>
>> 12. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)<br>
>> 13. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)<br>
>> 14. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)<br>
>> 15. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)<br>
>> 16. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)<br>
>> 17. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)<br>
>> 18. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)<br>
>> 19. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 1<br>
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:27:42 +0200<br>
>> From: Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>><br>
>> To: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16@seacom.mu" target="_blank">9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16@seacom.mu</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
>><br>
>> Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
>><br>
>> Mark.<br>
>><br>
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br>
>> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br>
>> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how<br>
>> > to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Thanks.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Sunday.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br>
>> >> news story.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the moment,<br>
>> >> I only<br>
>> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br>
>> >> Vermeulen<br>
>> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
>> >> ? ? Regards,<br>
>> >> rfg<br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> >> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> >> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> >><br>
>><br>
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>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/7f6aa1b8/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/7f6aa1b8/attachment-0001.html</a><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 2<br>
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:46:15 +0200<br>
>> From: Mike Silber <<a href="mailto:silber.mike@gmail.com" target="_blank">silber.mike@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3@gmail.com" target="_blank">2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
>><br>
>> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to<br>
>> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br>
>><br>
>> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and<br>
>> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
>><br>
>> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space<br>
>> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then<br>
>> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current<br>
>> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes<br>
>> may not have the desired outcome.<br>
>><br>
>> Mike<br>
>><br>
>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>> wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Mark.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
>> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br>
>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br>
>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how<br>
>> to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Thanks.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Sunday.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>> >>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the<br>
>> following<br>
>> >>> news story.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
>> <<br>
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a>><br>
>><br>
>> >>> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment,<br>
>> I only<br>
>> >>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br>
>> Vermeulen<br>
>> >>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
>> >>> Regards,<br>
>> >>> rfg<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> >>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> >>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a> <<br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
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>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/1d4a9dec/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/1d4a9dec/attachment-0001.html</a><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 3<br>
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:59:57 +0200<br>
>> From: Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>><br>
>> To: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f@posix.co.za" target="_blank">007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f@posix.co.za</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br>
>><br>
>> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to<br>
>> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting<br>
>> of non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.<br>
>><br>
>> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:<br>
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears<br>
>> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem<br>
>> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how<br>
>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been<br>
>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of<br>
>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving<br>
>> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Mike<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a><br>
>> >> <mailto:<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>>> wrote:<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Mark.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
>> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br>
>> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br>
>> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see<br>
>> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Thanks.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Sunday.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the<br>
>> >>>> following<br>
>> >>>> news story.<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the<br>
>> >>>> moment, I only<br>
>> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br>
>> >>>> Vermeulen<br>
>> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
>> >>>> ? ? Regards,<br>
>> >>>> rfg<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> >>>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> >>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> >> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> >> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> --<br>
>><br>
>> Mark James ELKINS? -? Posix Systems - (South) Africa<br>
>> <a href="http://mje@posix.co.za??" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za??</a>?? <<a href="http://mje@posix.co.za/???" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mje@posix.co.za/???</a>?>?? Tel: +27.826010496 <<br>
>> tel:+27826010496 <+27826010496>><br>
>> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a><br>
>><br>
>> Posix SystemsVCARD for MJ Elkins<br>
>><br>
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>> ><br>
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>> ><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 4<br>
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:10:48 +0000<br>
>> From: Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>><br>
>> To: "<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>" <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>>,<br>
>> "<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID:<br>
>> <<br>
>> <a href="mailto:DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0@DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com" target="_blank">DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0@DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com</a><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>
>><br>
>> I would be very curious to hear from a legal perspective what - if any -<br>
>> legal liability AfriNIC has in a situation like this.<br>
>><br>
>> The fact is - space has value - and if space is stolen - used for spam or<br>
>> whatever else - and the reputation of said space is damaged - it?s value<br>
>> decreases. Now I fully realize that space can be hijacked - and at that<br>
>> point potentially the hijackers may hold the liability. However - when the<br>
>> space seems to have been stolen and sold off by a staff member of the<br>
>> organization that is meant in effect to the curator of the space - I<br>
>> question if there is not a liability issue at play if it can be proven that<br>
>> due care was not taken to safe guard against the actions taken.<br>
>><br>
>> I?m no lawyer though so I would really be interested to know the legal<br>
>> perspective - can an rir be held liable to the actions of its staff if it<br>
>> did not adequately protect against the actions taken.<br>
>><br>
>> Andrew<br>
>><br>
>> Get Outlook for iOS<<a href="https://aka.ms/o0ukef" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://aka.ms/o0ukef</a>><br>
>> ________________________________<br>
>> From: Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>><br>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 3:59:57 PM<br>
>> To: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a> <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to<br>
>> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting of<br>
>> non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.<br>
>><br>
>> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:<br>
>> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to<br>
>> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br>
>><br>
>> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and<br>
>> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
>><br>
>> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space<br>
>> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then<br>
>> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current<br>
>> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes<br>
>> may not have the desired outcome.<br>
>><br>
>> Mike<br>
>><br>
>> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a><mailto:<br>
>> <a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
>><br>
>> Mark.<br>
>><br>
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br>
>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br>
>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br>
>><br>
>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to<br>
>> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br>
>><br>
>> Thanks.<br>
>><br>
>> Sunday.<br>
>><br>
>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br>
>> news story.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
>> <<br>
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I<br>
>> only<br>
>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen<br>
>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
>> Regards,<br>
>> rfg<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><<br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><<br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><<br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>><br>
>> Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa<br>
>> <a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>> Tel: +27.826010496<<br>
>> tel:+27826010496 <+27826010496>><br>
>> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a><<br>
>> <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a>><br>
>><br>
>> [Posix Systems][VCARD for MJ Elkins]<br>
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>> ><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 5<br>
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:11:04 +0200<br>
>> From: Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>><br>
>> To: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17@seacom.mu" target="_blank">7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17@seacom.mu</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
>><br>
>> I don't disagree with that either.<br>
>><br>
>> I am certain AFRINIC are working on this, and I know there will be no<br>
>> shortage of queries about this from the field, much to our<br>
>> already-clogged e-mail boxes. I don't want to do the jobs of others; no<br>
>> one is doing mine for me.<br>
>><br>
>> My preferred current focus - your last paragraph, below.<br>
>><br>
>> Mark.<br>
>><br>
>> On 5/Dec/19 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:<br>
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears<br>
>> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem<br>
>> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how<br>
>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been<br>
>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of<br>
>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving<br>
>> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Mike<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a><br>
>> >> <mailto:<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>>> wrote:<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Mark.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
>> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br>
>> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br>
>> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see<br>
>> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Thanks.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Sunday.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the<br>
>> >>>> following<br>
>> >>>> news story.<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the<br>
>> >>>> moment, I only<br>
>> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br>
>> >>>> Vermeulen<br>
>> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
>> >>>> ? ? Regards,<br>
>> >>>> rfg<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> >>>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> >>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> >> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> >> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
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>> ><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 6<br>
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:54:21 +0100<br>
>> From: Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com" target="_blank">4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"<br>
>><br>
>> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest<br>
>> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy<br>
>> space.<br>
>><br>
>> The community has been informed that there is already some internal<br>
>> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things<br>
>> done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are<br>
>> established, the law should take its course and people should stand<br>
>> accountable for their deeds.<br>
>><br>
>> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund<br>
>> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7<br>
>> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover<br>
>> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active<br>
>> use, why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for<br>
>> the common good?<br>
>><br>
>> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal<br>
>> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.<br>
>><br>
>> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf<br>
>> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,<br>
>> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should<br>
>> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are<br>
>> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our<br>
>> time and intellect.<br>
>><br>
>> Sunday.<br>
>><br>
>> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:<br>
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears<br>
>> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem<br>
>> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how<br>
>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been<br>
>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of<br>
>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving<br>
>> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Mike<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a><br>
>> >> <mailto:<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>>> wrote:<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Mark.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
>> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br>
>> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br>
>> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see<br>
>> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Thanks.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Sunday.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the<br>
>> >>>> following<br>
>> >>>> news story.<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the<br>
>> >>>> moment, I only<br>
>> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br>
>> >>>> Vermeulen<br>
>> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
>> >>>> ? ? Regards,<br>
>> >>>> rfg<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> >>>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> >>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> >> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> >> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> --------------------------------------------------<br>
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br>
>> Managing Director<br>
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br>
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br>
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br>
>> Email: <a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br>
>> ---------------------------------------------------<br>
>><br>
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>> ><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 7<br>
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:15:59 +0200<br>
>> From: Omo Oaiya <<a href="mailto:Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net" target="_blank">Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net</a>><br>
>> To: Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID:<br>
>> <CAG1eoi3w-F2Ui-BfiKmBqYJ=<br>
>> <a href="mailto:srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
>><br>
>> I have to agree with this. As shocking and disappointing as the<br>
>> revelations<br>
>> might be, this makes the most sense to me.<br>
>><br>
>> Omo<br>
>><br>
>> On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, 20:56 Sunday Folayan, <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest<br>
>> > that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy<br>
>> > space.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal<br>
>> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things<br>
>> done.<br>
>> > I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are<br>
>> established,<br>
>> > the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for<br>
>> > their deeds.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund<br>
>> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7<br>
>> > years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover<br>
>> > the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active<br>
>> use,<br>
>> > why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the<br>
>> > common good?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal<br>
>> > department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by<br>
>> now.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf<br>
>> of<br>
>> > the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with<br>
>> > the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather<br>
>> > apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for<br>
>> > developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and<br>
>> > intellect.<br>
>> > Sunday.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to<br>
>> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem<br>
>> and<br>
>> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space<br>
>> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and<br>
>> then<br>
>> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current<br>
>> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those<br>
>> processes<br>
>> > may not have the desired outcome.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Mike<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>> wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Mark.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br>
>> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br>
>> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to<br>
>> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Thanks.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Sunday.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br>
>> > news story.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
>> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I<br>
>> > only<br>
>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br>
>> Vermeulen<br>
>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
>> > Regards,<br>
>> > rfg<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss@afrinic.nethttps://<br>
>> <a href="http://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > --<br>
>> > --------------------------------------------------<br>
>> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br>
>> > Managing Director<br>
>> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br>
>> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br>
>> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br>
>> > Email: <a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br>
>> > ---------------------------------------------------<br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> -------------- next part --------------<br>
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
>> URL: <<br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/582fac38/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/582fac38/attachment-0001.html</a><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 8<br>
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:28:06 +0100<br>
>> From: Sylvain Baya <<a href="mailto:abscoco@gmail.com" target="_blank">abscoco@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> To: "<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>" <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>>,<br>
>> "<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: [Community-Discuss] [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID:<br>
>> <<br>
>> <a href="mailto:CAJjTEvE%2BsHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS%2BAwyF6Kg@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CAJjTEvE+sHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS+AwyF6Kg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
>><br>
>> Hi all,<br>
>><br>
>> Le jeudi 5 d?cembre 2019, Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>> a ?crit :<br>
>><br>
>> > Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to<br>
>> > manipulate the non-legacy space -<br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>> Dear Mark,<br>
>> ...i agree !<br>
>><br>
>> yet it happened. In this case (looting of non-legacy space), the RSA has<br>
>> > meant nothing.<br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>> As you say, i take you on words ; then if the RSA (Registration Service<br>
>> Agreement) could<br>
>> easily be bypassed, how to deal with our 'emerged' problem ?<br>
>><br>
>> ...perhaps time to seriously reconsider the long life DPP (Draft Policy<br>
>> Proposal) [1] ?<br>
>> __<br>
>> [1]: <<a href="https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp</a>><br>
>><br>
>> Shalom,<br>
>> --sb.<br>
>><br>
>> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to<br>
>> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem<br>
>> and<br>
>> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space<br>
>> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and<br>
>> then<br>
>> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current<br>
>> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those<br>
>> processes<br>
>> > may not have the desired outcome.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Mike<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>> wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Mark.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br>
>> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br>
>> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to<br>
>> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Thanks.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Sunday.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br>
>> > news story.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html<br>
>> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I<br>
>> > only<br>
>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br>
>> Vermeulen<br>
>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
>> > Regards,<br>
>> > rfg<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss@afrinic.nethttps://<br>
>> <a href="http://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > --<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a> Tel: +27.826010496 <+27826010496><br>
>> > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > [image: Posix Systems][image: VCARD for MJ Elkins]<br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Best Regards !<br>
>> baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] | <<a href="https://www.cmnog.cm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.cmnog.cm</a>> | <<br>
>> <a href="https://survey.cmnog.cm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://survey.cmnog.cm</a>><br>
>> Subscribe to Mailing List : <<br>
>> <a href="https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/</a>><br>
>> __<br>
>> #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|?#?Romains15?:33?*Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec<br>
>> vous tous! ?#?Amen?!*?<br>
>> ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement?<br>
>> ?*Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire<br>
>> apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!*? (#Psaumes42:2)<br>
>> -------------- next part --------------<br>
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
>> URL: <<br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/63b5ef24/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/63b5ef24/attachment-0001.html</a><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 9<br>
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:43:48 +0100<br>
>> From: Isabel Odida <<a href="mailto:isabel.odida@gmail.com" target="_blank">isabel.odida@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
>> Cc: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D@gmail.com" target="_blank">6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
>><br>
>> I know what sparked this story. Some people have no chill. How convenient<br>
>> following the last meeting in June. Ok, and then what? What have you<br>
>> benefited?<br>
>><br>
>> Sent from my iPhone<br>
>><br>
>> > On 4 Dec 2019, at 18:23, Ronald F. Guilmette <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br>
>> > news story.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I<br>
>> only<br>
>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan<br>
>> Vermeulen<br>
>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > Regards,<br>
>> > rfg<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 10<br>
>> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:44:58 -0800<br>
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:18818.1575585898@segfault.tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">18818.1575585898@segfault.tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
>><br>
>> In message <<a href="mailto:4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com" target="_blank">4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com</a>>,<br>
>> Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> >The community has been informed that there is already some internal<br>
>> >investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things<br>
>> >done.<br>
>><br>
>> Mr. Folayan,<br>
>><br>
>> These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,<br>
>> 2019, a full three months ago. Since that time there has not been a<br>
>> single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,<br>
>> or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague assurances<br>
>> that these matters are being looked into.<br>
>><br>
>> Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns<br>
>> about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full<br>
>> three years ago.<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html</a><br>
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html</a><br>
>><br>
>> I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again<br>
>> repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,<br>
>> albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention<br>
>> paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any<br>
>> concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html</a><br>
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html</a><br>
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html</a><br>
>><br>
>> At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly<br>
>> in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive<br>
>> issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to<br>
>> entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it<br>
>> were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the<br>
>> courageous reporting of <a href="http://MyBroadband.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">MyBroadband.co.za</a> <<a href="http://mybroadband.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mybroadband.co.za/</a>>.<br>
>> Neither the board nor<br>
>> the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any<br>
>> clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will<br>
>> either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders<br>
>> and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive<br>
>> any of the findings that it may reach. And yet despite having had<br>
>> either three full months or three full years to look into these<br>
>> matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and<br>
>> despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming<br>
>> from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.<br>
>><br>
>> This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the<br>
>> community's patience to come to an end? Does the community have any<br>
>> assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another<br>
>> three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield<br>
>> anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the<br>
>> current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions<br>
>> of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?<br>
>><br>
>> On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at long<br>
>> last be forthcoming?<br>
>><br>
>> >I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are<br>
>> >established, the law should take its course and people should stand<br>
>> >accountable for their deeds.<br>
>><br>
>> This assertion on your part begs four further questions:<br>
>><br>
>> 1) Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented<br>
>> in the <a href="http://MyBroadband.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">MyBroadband.co.za</a> <<a href="http://mybroadband.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mybroadband.co.za/</a>> article, the<br>
>> majority of which were drawn from<br>
>> publicly available sources including open government records, what more<br>
>> will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and intentions<br>
>> are established"? What parts of the abundant documentary evidence already<br>
>> presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?<br>
>><br>
>> 2) If, as asserted in the <a href="http://MyBroadband.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">MyBroadband.co.za</a> <<a href="http://mybroadband.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mybroadband.co.za/</a>><br>
>> article, it can be persuasively<br>
>> demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in fact<br>
>> purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC<br>
>> itself is one of the aggrieved parties? And if so, would you hope and<br>
>> expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and<br>
>> all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?<br>
>><br>
>> 3) Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and<br>
>> endemic<br>
>> within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do you<br>
>> have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all<br>
>> likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?<br>
>><br>
>> 4) What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-<br>
>> documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from<br>
>> AFRINIC's own free pool? Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed by<br>
>> AFRINIC? Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever they<br>
>> may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty<br>
>> on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?<br>
>><br>
>> >I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund<br>
>> >organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7<br>
>> >years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover<br>
>> >the manipulations.<br>
>><br>
>> On this point, you and I are in complete agreement. "The system", such<br>
>> as it is, is quite self-evidently broken. But this raises the further<br>
>> question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at<br>
>> AFRINIC,<br>
>> while all of this was going on. Is it even plausible that a single bad<br>
>> actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars<br>
>> worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a<br>
>> several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC<br>
>> staff even noticed any of this?<br>
>><br>
>> >For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal<br>
>> >department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by<br>
>> now.<br>
>><br>
>> See above. Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with<br>
>> respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself. No other<br>
>> single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much<br>
>> valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself. And yet we have, as yet, no<br>
>> clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff<br>
>> member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone<br>
>> that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated<br>
>> by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.<br>
>><br>
>> If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.<br>
>><br>
>> >While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf<br>
>> >of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,<br>
>> >with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should<br>
>> >rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are<br>
>> >available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our<br>
>> >time and intellect.<br>
>><br>
>> See above. With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we<br>
>> may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"? I have<br>
>> so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any<br>
>> document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of<br>
>> AFRINIC. In fact, quite the opposite. I see that a purported three<br>
>> month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly<br>
>> reporting on so far. I see an attempt to shift the blame for this<br>
>> colossal<br>
>> and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders<br>
>> while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of<br>
>> AFRINIC itself. I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action<br>
>> will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a<br>
>> backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general<br>
>> disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific<br>
>> national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.<br>
>><br>
>> For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,<br>
>> Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.<br>
>> The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and<br>
>> to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or<br>
>> placed<br>
>> under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to all.<br>
>> AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding<br>
>> responsibility.<br>
>><br>
>> I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively<br>
>> remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing<br>
>> after-effects. I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now<br>
>> evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the carpet<br>
>> will no longer be considered a vialble option.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>> rfg<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> P.S. I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower" in<br>
>> this context Mr. Folayan. That term is usually used in reference to some<br>
>> insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed<br>
>> first-hand some malfeasance. Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this<br>
>> description. Rather, we have labored as outsiders only. We have not<br>
>> been privy to any "inside" information. Quite the opposite in fact. We<br>
>> have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests<br>
>> for information by AFRINIC staff.<br>
>><br>
>> Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our<br>
>> reasonable<br>
>> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.<br>
>> Exactly<br>
>> such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other<br>
>> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists upon<br>
>> request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such unredacted<br>
>> WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were rejected<br>
>> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved policy<br>
>> was cited as the basis for the denial.<br>
>><br>
>> At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate explanation<br>
>> for<br>
>> this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be<br>
>> granted at long last. Certain portions of my research cannot be completed<br>
>> without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis<br>
>> for<br>
>> the rejection of such requests.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> P.P.S. As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the<br>
>> numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place. I feel<br>
>> compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been<br>
>> double-victimized in at least two specific instances.<br>
>><br>
>> First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4<br>
>> blocks "liberated" from its free pool. Secondarily and even more<br>
>> insultingly<br>
>> however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also<br>
>> arranged<br>
>> to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be associated<br>
>> with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other<br>
>> legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4<br>
>> allocations.<br>
>><br>
>> I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy <a href="http://168.80.0.0/15" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">168.80.0.0/15</a> block,<br>
>> registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the<br>
>> non-legacy<br>
>> <a href="http://196.16.0.0/14" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">196.16.0.0/14</a> block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.<br>
>> These<br>
>> blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six million<br>
>> U.S. dollars.<br>
>><br>
>> As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD<br>
>> mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as MEMBER-ONLY,<br>
>> as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any<br>
>> actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to<br>
>> AFRINIC.<br>
>><br>
>> I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this<br>
>> regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it does<br>
>> appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-<br>
>> stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years<br>
>> on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be due<br>
>> on these IPv4 assignments.<br>
>><br>
>> Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further<br>
>> clarification<br>
>> with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been<br>
>> collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for<br>
>> any year since their allocation to and association with the organizations<br>
>> noted.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 11<br>
>> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 17:24:26 -0800<br>
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
>> To: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:19435.1575595466@segfault.tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">19435.1575595466@segfault.tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
>><br>
>> In message <<a href="mailto:6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D@gmail.com" target="_blank">6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D@gmail.com</a>>,<br>
>> Isabel Odida <<a href="mailto:isabel.odida@gmail.com" target="_blank">isabel.odida@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> >I know what sparked this story.<br>
>><br>
>> If you have something to say, then you have our attention and the floor.<br>
>> Please proceed.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>> rfg<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 12<br>
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 10:04:06 +0100<br>
>> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>><br>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es" target="_blank">79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
>><br>
>> Hi Sunday, all,<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let me<br>
>> tell why.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My first<br>
>> AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly after,<br>
>> during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could contribute to<br>
>> the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and joining Ernest in his<br>
>> trips to do the Registration Services training so I do IPv6 trainings.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos, I<br>
>> was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the Madrid<br>
>> Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from Sunday, I could<br>
>> resolve that on the next day and flight again to do the training.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,<br>
>> and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been doing<br>
>> those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been able to take<br>
>> advantage of that.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as well<br>
>> as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much together,<br>
>> you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost 15 years. Of<br>
>> course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a hidden face. As<br>
>> humans, we all have positive and negative things. But I?m really shocked, I<br>
>> still resist to believe it.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the position<br>
>> of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use<br>
>> your own name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe<br>
>> someone,? may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to<br>
>> appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly and<br>
>> non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean he is<br>
>> still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or something<br>
>> similar.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents. If<br>
>> you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and<br>
>> may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and<br>
>> involvement an all this.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal interest.<br>
>> My only interest is to know the *real true* and I?m sure everybody agrees<br>
>> on that.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so no<br>
>> doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very<br>
>> thankful for that.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>><br>
>> Jordi<br>
>><br>
>> @jordipalet<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> escribi?:<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest<br>
>> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy<br>
>> space.<br>
>><br>
>> The community has been informed that there is already some internal<br>
>> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things done.<br>
>> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are established,<br>
>> the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for<br>
>> their deeds.<br>
>><br>
>> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund<br>
>> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7<br>
>> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover<br>
>> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active use,<br>
>> why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the<br>
>> common good?<br>
>><br>
>> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal<br>
>> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.<br>
>><br>
>> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf of<br>
>> the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with<br>
>> the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather<br>
>> apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for<br>
>> developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and<br>
>> intellect.<br>
>><br>
>> Sunday.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to<br>
>> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and<br>
>> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space<br>
>> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then<br>
>> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current<br>
>> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes<br>
>> may not have the desired outcome.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Mike<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
>><br>
>> Mark.<br>
>><br>
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient<br>
>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC<br>
>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?<br>
>><br>
>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to<br>
>> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.<br>
>><br>
>> Thanks.<br>
>><br>
>> Sunday.<br>
>><br>
>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following<br>
>> news story.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
>> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I<br>
>> only<br>
>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen<br>
>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
>> Regards,<br>
>> rfg<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> --<br>
>> --------------------------------------------------<br>
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br>
>> Managing Director<br>
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br>
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br>
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br>
>> Email: <a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br>
>> ---------------------------------------------------<br>
>> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing<br>
>> list <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> **********************************************<br>
>> IPv4 is over<br>
>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
>> <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
>> The IPv6 Company<br>
>><br>
>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or<br>
>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of<br>
>> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized<br>
>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this<br>
>> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly<br>
>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the<br>
>> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or<br>
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>> ><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 13<br>
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:16:03 +0100<br>
>> From: Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>>, General Discussions<br>
>> of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com" target="_blank">4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed<br>
>><br>
>> Dear Mr Guilmette,<br>
>><br>
>> Regrettably, I do not monitor the press, but selected channels such as<br>
>> this list. It seems I got your attention, or you got my attention, or we<br>
>> both got each other's attention. Let us therefore maximize the possession.<br>
>><br>
>> Important and interesting questions, that you have raised in this email.<br>
>> Let us put some punch in it. Kindly change the TO: field to<br>
>> <a href="mailto:ceo@afrinic.net" target="_blank">ceo@afrinic.net</a>, and cc the Community just to make sure it is not<br>
>> ignored, then resend it. I am sure the CEO will answer all the questions<br>
>> you here posed to me. Pity he has to start his tenure with these hard<br>
>> nuts and curveballs, but he is capable. He speaks for the Company, not me.<br>
>><br>
>> I am equally sure that the Community appreciates the great work done,<br>
>> and no one supports the exposed fraud. You are a stakeholder, and not<br>
>> some casual bystander so please note this. What you conveniently<br>
>> ignored, is that the #1 accused company insider is the eye of the<br>
>> company on the policy lists, where you raised the issues.<br>
>><br>
>> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should<br>
>> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more<br>
>> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.<br>
>> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.<br>
>><br>
>> My use of the term "Whistleblowers" is appropriate, as I looked at one<br>
>> of your reference links, and indeed, someone confirmed to you privately<br>
>> that your hunch is right. If you do not claim the honour, they should,<br>
>> because you rightly built on their work!<br>
>><br>
>> Great job you are doing.<br>
>><br>
>> Have a great day.<br>
>><br>
>> Sunday.<br>
>><br>
>> On 05/12/2019 23:44, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>> > In message <<a href="mailto:4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com" target="_blank">4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com</a>>,<br>
>> > Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal<br>
>> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things<br>
>> >> done.<br>
>> > Mr. Folayan,<br>
>> ><br>
>> > These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,<br>
>> > 2019, a full three months ago. Since that time there has not been a<br>
>> > single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,<br>
>> > or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague<br>
>> assurances<br>
>> > that these matters are being looked into.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns<br>
>> > about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full<br>
>> > three years ago.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again<br>
>> > repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,<br>
>> > albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention<br>
>> > paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any<br>
>> > concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly<br>
>> > in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive<br>
>> > issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to<br>
>> > entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it<br>
>> > were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the<br>
>> > courageous reporting of <a href="http://MyBroadband.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">MyBroadband.co.za</a> <<a href="http://mybroadband.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mybroadband.co.za/</a>>.<br>
>> Neither the board nor<br>
>> > the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any<br>
>> > clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will<br>
>> > either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders<br>
>> > and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive<br>
>> > any of the findings that it may reach. And yet despite having had<br>
>> > either three full months or three full years to look into these<br>
>> > matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and<br>
>> > despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming<br>
>> > from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the<br>
>> > community's patience to come to an end? Does the community have any<br>
>> > assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another<br>
>> > three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield<br>
>> > anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the<br>
>> > current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions<br>
>> > of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at<br>
>> long<br>
>> > last be forthcoming?<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are<br>
>> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand<br>
>> >> accountable for their deeds.<br>
>> > This assertion on your part begs four further questions:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > 1) Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented<br>
>> > in the <a href="http://MyBroadband.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">MyBroadband.co.za</a> <<a href="http://mybroadband.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mybroadband.co.za/</a>> article, the<br>
>> majority of which were drawn from<br>
>> > publicly available sources including open government records, what more<br>
>> > will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and<br>
>> intentions<br>
>> > are established"? What parts of the abundant documentary evidence<br>
>> already<br>
>> > presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > 2) If, as asserted in the <a href="http://MyBroadband.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">MyBroadband.co.za</a><br>
>> <<a href="http://mybroadband.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mybroadband.co.za/</a>> article, it can be persuasively<br>
>> > demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in<br>
>> fact<br>
>> > purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC<br>
>> > itself is one of the aggrieved parties? And if so, would you hope and<br>
>> > expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and<br>
>> > all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > 3) Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and<br>
>> endemic<br>
>> > within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do<br>
>> you<br>
>> > have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all<br>
>> > likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > 4) What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-<br>
>> > documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from<br>
>> > AFRINIC's own free pool? Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed<br>
>> by<br>
>> > AFRINIC? Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever<br>
>> they<br>
>> > may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty<br>
>> > on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund<br>
>> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7<br>
>> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to<br>
>> discover<br>
>> >> the manipulations.<br>
>> > On this point, you and I are in complete agreement. "The system", such<br>
>> > as it is, is quite self-evidently broken. But this raises the further<br>
>> > question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at<br>
>> AFRINIC,<br>
>> > while all of this was going on. Is it even plausible that a single bad<br>
>> > actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars<br>
>> > worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a<br>
>> > several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC<br>
>> > staff even noticed any of this?<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal<br>
>> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by<br>
>> now.<br>
>> > See above. Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with<br>
>> > respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself. No other<br>
>> > single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much<br>
>> > valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself. And yet we have, as yet, no<br>
>> > clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff<br>
>> > member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone<br>
>> > that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated<br>
>> > by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf<br>
>> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,<br>
>> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should<br>
>> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are<br>
>> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of<br>
>> our<br>
>> >> time and intellect.<br>
>> > See above. With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we<br>
>> > may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"? I<br>
>> have<br>
>> > so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any<br>
>> > document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of<br>
>> > AFRINIC. In fact, quite the opposite. I see that a purported three<br>
>> > month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly<br>
>> > reporting on so far. I see an attempt to shift the blame for this<br>
>> colossal<br>
>> > and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders<br>
>> > while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of<br>
>> > AFRINIC itself. I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action<br>
>> > will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a<br>
>> > backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general<br>
>> > disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific<br>
>> > national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,<br>
>> > Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.<br>
>> > The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and<br>
>> > to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or<br>
>> placed<br>
>> > under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to<br>
>> all.<br>
>> > AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding<br>
>> responsibility.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively<br>
>> > remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing<br>
>> > after-effects. I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now<br>
>> > evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the<br>
>> carpet<br>
>> > will no longer be considered a vialble option.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > Regards,<br>
>> > rfg<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > P.S. I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower"<br>
>> in<br>
>> > this context Mr. Folayan. That term is usually used in reference to<br>
>> some<br>
>> > insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed<br>
>> > first-hand some malfeasance. Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this<br>
>> > description. Rather, we have labored as outsiders only. We have not<br>
>> > been privy to any "inside" information. Quite the opposite in fact. We<br>
>> > have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests<br>
>> > for information by AFRINIC staff.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our<br>
>> reasonable<br>
>> > requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.<br>
>> Exactly<br>
>> > such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other<br>
>> > Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists<br>
>> upon<br>
>> > request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such<br>
>> unredacted<br>
>> > WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were<br>
>> rejected<br>
>> > out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved<br>
>> policy<br>
>> > was cited as the basis for the denial.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate<br>
>> explanation for<br>
>> > this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be<br>
>> > granted at long last. Certain portions of my research cannot be<br>
>> completed<br>
>> > without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis<br>
>> for<br>
>> > the rejection of such requests.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > P.P.S. As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the<br>
>> > numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place. I feel<br>
>> > compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been<br>
>> > double-victimized in at least two specific instances.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4<br>
>> > blocks "liberated" from its free pool. Secondarily and even more<br>
>> insultingly<br>
>> > however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also<br>
>> arranged<br>
>> > to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be<br>
>> associated<br>
>> > with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other<br>
>> > legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4<br>
>> > allocations.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy <a href="http://168.80.0.0/15" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">168.80.0.0/15</a><br>
>> block,<br>
>> > registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the<br>
>> non-legacy<br>
>> > <a href="http://196.16.0.0/14" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">196.16.0.0/14</a> block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.<br>
>> These<br>
>> > blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six<br>
>> million<br>
>> > U.S. dollars.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD<br>
>> > mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as<br>
>> MEMBER-ONLY,<br>
>> > as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any<br>
>> > actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to<br>
>> > AFRINIC.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this<br>
>> > regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it<br>
>> does<br>
>> > appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-<br>
>> > stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years<br>
>> > on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be<br>
>> due<br>
>> > on these IPv4 assignments.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further<br>
>> clarification<br>
>> > with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been<br>
>> > collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for<br>
>> > any year since their allocation to and association with the<br>
>> organizations<br>
>> > noted.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> --------------------------------------------------<br>
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br>
>> Managing Director<br>
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br>
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br>
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br>
>> Email: <a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br>
>> ---------------------------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 14<br>
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:07:01 -0800<br>
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:21084.1575626821@segfault.tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">21084.1575626821@segfault.tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
>><br>
>> Mr. Folayan,<br>
>><br>
>> Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful response.<br>
>><br>
>> At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond<br>
>> what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> In message <<a href="mailto:4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com" target="_blank">4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com</a>>,<br>
>> Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> >I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should<br>
>> >conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more<br>
>> >honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.<br>
>> >It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.<br>
>><br>
>> Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.<br>
>><br>
>> Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see<br>
>> the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC. That is quite certainly not a<br>
>> goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as<br>
>> you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder<br>
>> should wish for. AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global<br>
>> Internet governance. I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.<br>
>> No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a<br>
>> few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second. And to use an<br>
>> even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing<br>
>> smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than<br>
>> I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.<br>
>><br>
>> If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being<br>
>> formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested<br>
>> that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already<br>
>> sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being<br>
>> preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere. Now I may stand on the comfortable<br>
>> shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but<br>
>> I do not question the utility of the journey.<br>
>><br>
>> The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters<br>
>> of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose. Time will<br>
>> tell if that is an accurate assesment.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>> rfg<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 15<br>
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:14:31 +0100<br>
>> From: Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>>, General<br>
>> Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed@gmail.com" target="_blank">8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br>
>><br>
>> Good points Jordi, and thanks for the throwback on the very many amazing<br>
>> sacrifices we all made, to grow the Internet in Africa.<br>
>><br>
>> I will resist asking Ernest to defend himself here, We are not<br>
>> constituted as a competent jury, neither do we want to compromise the<br>
>> ongoing investigations.<br>
>><br>
>> Questions are appropriate, so will be his own admissions or rebuttals,<br>
>> when the investigations are completed.<br>
>><br>
>> I may be wrong, but that is my own expectations and position.<br>
>><br>
>> Sunday.<br>
>><br>
>> On 06/12/2019 10:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Hi Sunday, all,<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let<br>
>> > me tell why.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My<br>
>> > first AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly<br>
>> > after, during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could<br>
>> > contribute to the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and<br>
>> > joining Ernest in his trips to do the Registration Services training<br>
>> > so I do IPv6 trainings.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos,<br>
>> > I was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the<br>
>> > Madrid Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from<br>
>> > Sunday, I could resolve that on the next day and flight again to do<br>
>> > the training.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,<br>
>> > and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been<br>
>> > doing those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been<br>
>> > able to take advantage of that.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as<br>
>> > well as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much<br>
>> > together, you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost<br>
>> > 15 years. Of course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a<br>
>> > hidden face. As humans, we all have positive and negative things. But<br>
>> > I?m really shocked, I still resist to believe it.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the<br>
>> > position of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think<br>
>> > you will use your own name for registering companies, or instead you<br>
>> > will bribe someone, may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your<br>
>> > family name to appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly<br>
>> > and non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean<br>
>> > he is still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or<br>
>> > something similar.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents.<br>
>> > If you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,<br>
>> > and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and<br>
>> > involvement an all this.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal<br>
>> > interest. My only interest is to know the **real true** and I?m sure<br>
>> > everybody agrees on that.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so<br>
>> > no doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very<br>
>> > thankful for that.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Regards,<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Jordi<br>
>> ><br>
>> > @jordipalet<br>
>> ><br>
>> > El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br>
>> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>>> escribi?:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway<br>
>> > suggest that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only<br>
>> > on legacy space.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal<br>
>> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things<br>
>> > done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are<br>
>> > established, the law should take its course and people should stand<br>
>> > accountable for their deeds.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund<br>
>> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of<br>
>> > 7 years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to<br>
>> > discover the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or<br>
>> > in active use, why would or should they not have been returned to the<br>
>> > Registry for the common good?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their<br>
>> > legal department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with<br>
>> > gusto by now.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf<br>
>> > of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,<br>
>> > with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should<br>
>> > rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are<br>
>> > available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of<br>
>> > our time and intellect.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Sunday.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there<br>
>> > appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy<br>
>> > space.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the<br>
>> > problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how<br>
>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been<br>
>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of<br>
>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then<br>
>> > moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired<br>
>> > outcome.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Mike<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a><br>
>> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>>> wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Completely agree with Sunday.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Mark.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically<br>
>> > ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet<br>
>> > in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces<br>
>> > under some form of RSA?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let<br>
>> > us see how to help and empower the people doing useful<br>
>> > work for Africa.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Thanks.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Sunday.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think<br>
>> > about the following<br>
>> > news story.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> <a href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > ? I will have more to say about this in due course.?<br>
>> > For the moment, I only<br>
>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by<br>
>> > myself and Jan Vermeulen<br>
>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.<br>
>> > ? ? Regards,<br>
>> > rfg<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> ><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> ><br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> ><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > --<br>
>> > --------------------------------------------------<br>
>> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br>
>> > Managing Director<br>
>> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br>
>> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br>
>> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Email%3Asfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank">Email:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>>,<br>
>> <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> > ---------------------------------------------------<br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss<br>
>> > mailing list <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > **********************************************<br>
>> > IPv4 is over<br>
>> > Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
>> > <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
>> > The IPv6 Company<br>
>> ><br>
>> > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged<br>
>> > or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive<br>
>> > use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty<br>
>> > authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of<br>
>> > this information, even if partially, including attached files, is<br>
>> > strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you<br>
>> > are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,<br>
>> > distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if<br>
>> > partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be<br>
>> > considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original<br>
>> > sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> --------------------------------------------------<br>
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan<br>
>> Managing Director<br>
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<br>
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<br>
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<br>
>> Email: <a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" target="_blank">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><br>
>> ---------------------------------------------------<br>
>><br>
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>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/8c6c63d5/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/8c6c63d5/attachment-0001.html</a><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 16<br>
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 12:17:52 +0200<br>
>> From: Omo Oaiya <<a href="mailto:Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net" target="_blank">Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net</a>><br>
>> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>><br>
>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88@wacren.net" target="_blank">14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88@wacren.net</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> > On 6 Dec 2019, at 11:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <<br>
>> <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,<br>
>> and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and<br>
>> involvement an all this.<br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> :-) Might as well setup a confession booth and provide absolution of<br>
>> souls. On a serious note, we need a proper investigation. Let?s wait to<br>
>> hear from the CEO<br>
>><br>
>> Omo<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> -------------- next part --------------<br>
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>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/4e0f75fc/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/4e0f75fc/attachment-0001.html</a><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 17<br>
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:21:40 +0100<br>
>> From: Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>>, General Discussions<br>
>> of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10@gmail.com" target="_blank">c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed<br>
>><br>
>> Dear Mr Guilmette,<br>
>><br>
>> On 06/12/2019 11:07, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:<br>
>> > Mr. Folayan,<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful<br>
>> response.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond<br>
>> > what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > In message <<a href="mailto:4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com" target="_blank">4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com</a>>,<br>
>> > Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should<br>
>> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more<br>
>> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking<br>
>> stakeholder.<br>
>> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.<br>
>> > Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see<br>
>> > the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC. That is quite certainly not a<br>
>> > goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as<br>
>> > you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder<br>
>> > should wish for. AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global<br>
>> > Internet governance. I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.<br>
>> > No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a<br>
>> > few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second. And to use an<br>
>> > even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing<br>
>> > smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than<br>
>> > I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being<br>
>> > formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested<br>
>> > that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already<br>
>> > sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being<br>
>> > preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere. Now I may stand on the comfortable<br>
>> > shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but<br>
>> > I do not question the utility of the journey.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters<br>
>> > of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose. Time will<br>
>> > tell if that is an accurate assesment.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> This is most assuring and comforting at the same time.<br>
>><br>
>> If I have sounded off-key, please accept my sincere apologies, and thank<br>
>> you very much for the good job you have done for the community so far.<br>
>> History will never forget your role and progressive disposition at this<br>
>> point in time.<br>
>><br>
>> When AfriNIC was being formed, the challenges of today, were not<br>
>> envisioned in the very many ways that they now present themselves.<br>
>> Africa has come a long way. Unfortunately, there are still many more<br>
>> oceans to cross, but we will all band together as a purposeful fleet.<br>
>> That is how we can all weather the storms that may come, but sure they<br>
>> will come.<br>
>><br>
>> With kind Regards ...<br>
>><br>
>> Sunday.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 18<br>
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:58:27 -0800<br>
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:21283.1575629907@segfault.tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">21283.1575629907@segfault.tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
>><br>
>> In message <<a href="mailto:79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es" target="_blank">79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es</a>>,<br>
>> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> >I also believe that he is a smart guy.<br>
>><br>
>> I would not dispute that characterization in the slightest.<br>
>><br>
>> >So, put yourself in the position of<br>
>> >a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use<br>
>> your o<br>
>> >wn name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe<br>
>> someone,=C2=A0<br>
>> > may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear in<br>
>> an<br>
>> >y documents? I feel this is really silly and non-understandable.<br>
>><br>
>> And yet it seemed to work, for years on end, with no one raising so much<br>
>> as an eyebrow because nobody seriously investigated or seriously looked<br>
>> at all of the relevant corporate documents and WHOIS records and, in<br>
>> particular, the historical WHOIS records, including but not limited to<br>
>> these ones:<br>
>><br>
>> ORG-AI2-AFRINIC <a href="https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD</a><br>
>> ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC <a href="https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB</a><br>
>> ORG-IA41-AFRINIC <a href="https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP</a><br>
>> ORG-ZZ139-AFRINIC <a href="https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW</a><br>
>> ORG-ZZ23-AFRINIC <a href="https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N</a><br>
>><br>
>> I have been chasing down miscreants on the Internet for more than 20 years<br>
>> now. One of the lessons I have learned in that time is that none of them<br>
>> are ten feet tall, and the majority of them absolutely suck at OPSEC. It<br>
>> is almost as if some part of them is deluding their own brains into the<br>
>> false belief that what they are doing is not really wrong, in some<br>
>> sense, and that they are somehow actually entitled to the stuff they are<br>
>> stealing, and that thus, at some level, they don't actually need to hide<br>
>> what they are doing all that throughly, because just as White House Chief<br>
>> of Staff Mick Mulvaney did not long ago... much to the shock of<br>
>> everyone...<br>
>> if they are ever caught and confronted they assume that they will just say<br>
>> "Yea. So? We do that all of the time. Get over it!"<br>
>><br>
>> >So maybe<br>
>> >somebody used him, which doesn=E2=80=99t mean he is still guilty<br>
>> =E2=80=9Cin<br>
>> >vigilando=E2=80=9D because he trusted anyone else, or something similar.<br>
>><br>
>> It's a nice thought, and you are a generous person to allow this<br>
>> possibility<br>
>> Jordi. All I can say is that other information, not yet made public,<br>
>> appears to rule out the possibility that Mr. Byaruhanga was either an<br>
>> unwitting stooge or a convenient fall guy.<br>
>><br>
>> >Do we believe in =E2=80=9Cpresumption of innocence=E2=80=9D? I do,<br>
>> despite<br>
>> >documents. If you don=E2=80=99t know the complete background, documents<br>
>> may<br>
>> >not be enough.<br>
>><br>
>> I agree.<br>
>><br>
>> That having been said, I hope that you will, as I have, spend some time<br>
>> carefully scrutinizing both the current and historical WHOIS records<br>
>> associated with the ORGanizations and the IPv4 blocks listed in the two<br>
>> tables in Jan's article. If you do that, I think that you will be, as<br>
>> I was, hard pressed to explain all of the quite glaring anomalies in<br>
>> any way that does not involve a great deal of very deliberate malfesance<br>
>> on somebody's part. Once you are convinced of that, then the question<br>
>> becomes: Who is responsible? And it is at that point that the various<br>
>> official governmental corporate registration records would seem to become<br>
>> very relevant.<br>
>><br>
>> >So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and<br>
>> >may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and<br>
>> involvement<br>
>> >an all this.<br>
>><br>
>> I would like to echo that sentiment.<br>
>><br>
>> Jan Vermeulen and myself have tried, repeatedly, and over some significant<br>
>> time now to reach him, both via voice, at a number of different phone<br>
>> numbers<br>
>> that we have identified as being associated with him, and also via email,<br>
>> at various of his known email addresses, and we have been utterly unable<br>
>> to<br>
>> do so. We both very much look forward to speaking with him and getting<br>
>> his<br>
>> side of the story, if he has one.<br>
>><br>
>> That having been said, we cannot be blamed, I think, for reaching certain<br>
>> reasonable conclusions when Jan's industry sources informed him, less than<br>
>> a day after I had attempted to confront Ernest, via email, with the facts<br>
>> arrayed against him, that he had abruptly resigned his position at AFRINIC<br>
>> after 15 years on the job.<br>
>><br>
>> His abrupt resignation was and remains his only apparent response to our<br>
>> inquiries.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>> rfg<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 19<br>
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 03:16:57 -0800<br>
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:21648.1575631017@segfault.tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">21648.1575631017@segfault.tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
>><br>
>> In message <<a href="mailto:14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88@wacren.net" target="_blank">14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88@wacren.net</a>>,<br>
>> Omo Oaiya <<a href="mailto:Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net" target="_blank">Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> >On a serious note, we need a proper investigation. Let's<br>
>> >wait to hear from the CEO<br>
>><br>
>> Have any of us been doing otherwise, for lo these past three months now?<br>
>><br>
>> Have we been afforded any other choice in the matter?<br>
>><br>
>> Can AFRINIC clean its own stables?<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>> rfg<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Subject: Digest Footer<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1<br>
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>><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> *Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb*<br>
> *<a href="mailto:muyiwacaleb@gmail.com" target="_blank">muyiwacaleb@gmail.com</a> <<a href="mailto:muyiwacaleb@gmail.com" target="_blank">muyiwacaleb@gmail.com</a>>*<br>
> *234 - 8077377378*<br>
> *234 - 07030777969*<br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><b><font size="4" color="#33ccff">Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb</font></b><div><font color="#993300"><i><b><a href="mailto:muyiwacaleb@gmail.com" target="_blank">muyiwacaleb@gmail.com</a></b></i></font></div><div><i><b><font color="#666666">234 - 8077377378</font></b></i></div><div><i><b><font color="#666666">234 - 07030777969</font></b></i></div></div></div>