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<p>Good points Jordi, and thanks for the throwback on the very many
amazing sacrifices we all made, to grow the Internet in Africa. <br>
</p>
<p>I will resist asking Ernest to defend himself here, We are not
constituted as a competent jury, neither do we want to compromise
the ongoing investigations. <br>
</p>
<p>Questions are appropriate, so will be his own admissions or
rebuttals, when the investigations are completed.<br>
</p>
<p>I may be wrong, but that is my own expectations and position.<br>
</p>
<p>Sunday.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 06/12/2019 10:04, JORDI PALET
MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Hi Sunday, all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">I’ve been in “internal conflict” myself, since
I read the article. Let me tell why.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I
recall correctly. My first AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in
Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly after, during an ITU meeting
in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could contribute to the
AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and joining
Ernest in his trips to do the Registration Services training
so I do IPv6 trainings.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Sunday for sure can remember that when going
for a training to Lagos, I was deported back to my country,
because a mess created by the Madrid Nigerian consulate and
thanks to the quick reaction from Sunday, I could resolve
that on the next day and flight again to do the training.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">My immediate response was, of course, I will be
very happy doing that, and since them I lost tract in how
many African countries, I’ve been doing those trainings and
how many thousands of brothers have been able to take
advantage of that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">The relevance of that is clear. I’d a close
relation with Ernest (as well as with many other staff from
all the RIRs). Traveling so much together, you get to know
people, and we are talking here about almost 15 years. Of
course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a
hidden face. As humans, we all have positive and negative
things. But I’m really shocked, I still resist to believe
it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put
yourself in the position of a smart guy that want to do
something bad. Do you think you will use your own name for
registering companies, or instead you will bribe someone,
may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name
to appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly and
non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which
doesn’t mean he is still guilty “in vigilando” because he
trusted anyone else, or something similar.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Do we believe in “presumption of innocence”? I
do, despite documents. If you don’t know the complete
background, documents may not be enough.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">So, I will like to request to Ernest, to
provide a clear explanation, and may be publicly recognize
what (if any) have been his mistakes and involvement an all
this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Note that I’m not here defending anyone. I’ve
no any personal interest. My only interest is to know the *<b>real
true</b>* and I’m sure everybody agrees on that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Note also that I’ve no doubts that the
documents may be authentic, so no doubt about the good work
and investigation done by Ronald and very thankful for that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="ES-TRAD">Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="ES-TRAD">@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="ES-TRAD"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="ES-TRAD"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="ES-TRAD"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">El 5/12/19
20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <<a
href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>>
escribió:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">It is a shame that the system was
exploited. I did not in anyway suggest that the malfeasance be
ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy space.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">The community has been informed
that there is already some internal investigations ongoing. We
should give AFRINIC the time to get things done. I equally
expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
established, the law should take its course and people should
stand accountable for their deeds.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">I query the suitability of a
system, where existing or moribund organizations' IP resources
are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7 years, and it took
this level of cross-border investigations to discover the
manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in
active use, why would or should they not have been returned to
the Registry for the common good?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">For those whose resources were
stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal department will be
pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">While appreciating the whistle
blower(s) for a job well done on behalf of the entire
community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with
the assurance that justice will be served, the community
should rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP
resources are available for developing the continent. That
will be a better use of our time and intellect.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Sunday. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">On 05/12/2019
1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Be that as it
may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy
space. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">I just want
to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space
issue.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">It terms
of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on
how space that should have been subject to the RSA has
been mis-appropriated and then turn to the more
difficult question of legacy space. If the current
processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space
under those processes may not have the desired outcome. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Mike<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">On 5
Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <<a
href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu"
moz-do-not-send="true">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Completely agree with
Sunday.<br>
<br>
Mark.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">On
5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Isn't
it time to address Legacy space issues,
specifically ancient squatters on spaces meant
to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
Services and bringing legacy spaces under some
form of RSA? <br>
<br>
I urge the community to think beyond the
sensation and let us see how to help and
empower the people doing useful work for
Africa. <br>
<br>
Thanks. <br>
<br>
Sunday. <br>
<br>
On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette
wrote: <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt">I
hope you all will take the time to read and
think about the following <br>
news story. <br>
<br>
<a
href="https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html</a>
<br>
I will have more to say about this in due
course. For the moment, I only <br>
wish to say that the investigation
undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen <br>
is ongoing, and that many others are
provably involved. <br>
Regards, <br>
rfg <br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________ <br>
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href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>
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moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">_______________________________________________<br>
Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Community-Discuss mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">--------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Sunday Adekunle Folayan<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Managing Director<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Email: <a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng" moz-do-not-send="true">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">sfolayan@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">---------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
--------------------------------------------------
Sunday Adekunle Folayan
Managing Director
General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com.ng">sfolayan@skannet.com.ng</a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sfolayan@gmail.com">sfolayan@gmail.com</a>
---------------------------------------------------</pre>
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