[Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 551, Issue 1

Anthony Ubah ubah.tonyiyke at gmail.com
Tue Dec 10 16:44:39 UTC 2019

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Dear Caleb and Arnaud,

I’m confused about your insinuation on this with respect to the solving the
problem at hand. From the surface value, it looks like a very good policy.
However, I still struggle to decipher with the practicality of implementing
the Internet Number Resource review policy, and the consequences in the
real world.

African is a region of complex and opaque soc-political systems.
Introducing such complex policies will most likely not lead to an abuse of
power, over-policing, and victimization. Introducing a Gestapo style
policing will create a cancerous system which will be unfavorable to the
region’ as a whole.

I was at the at just concluded meeting where this policy was
re-represented, giving the feedback from the community, I hoped to see a
revised version but alas! it was the same.

*Best Regards,*

*ANTHONY *

E-mail: anthony.ubah at goldspine.com <anthony.ubah at gloworld.com>.ng

On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 2:58 PM <community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>
wrote:

> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to

> community-discuss at afrinic.net

>

> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

> community-discuss-request at afrinic.net

>

> You can reach the person managing the list at

> community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net

>

> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific

> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."

>

>

> Today's Topics:

>

> 1. Re: Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1 (Arnaud AMELINA)

> 2. Re: Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1 (Arnaud AMELINA)

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Message: 1

> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:48:37 +0000

> From: Arnaud AMELINA <amelnaud at gmail.com>

> To: Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>

> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547,

> Issue 1

> Message-ID:

> <CAGDMR_cXHVW34SOD40wNBOrhiVOzR1-p+=

> CPTkSvfPCLee3mPw at mail.gmail.com>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>

> +1 to Caleb as you say it, it's time to find consensus on review policy.

>

> Regard

>

> --

> Arnaud

>

> Le ven. 6 d?c. 2019 ? 15:48, Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <

> muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>

> a ?crit :

>

> > Dear Ronald,

> >

> > So I read where this comment below was attributed to you.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > *>?Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our

> > reasonable> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS

> > database. Exactly> such unredacted database dumps *are* provided by all

> of

> > the four other> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and

> > journalists upon> request. When we submitted repeated requests for

> exactly

> > such unredacted> WHOIS database dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our

> > requests were rejected> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any

> > community-approved policy> was cited as the basis for the denial.?*

> > While not taking brief for AFRINIC or any of its staff, I feel you should

> > know that AFRINIC?s operation is also being governed by Mauritius data

> > protection law.

> > Mauritius regulates data protection under the Data Protection Act 2017

> > (DPA 2017 or Act), proclaimed through Proclamation No. 3 of 2018,

> effective

> > January 15, 2018. The Act repeals and replaces the Data Protection Act

> > 2004, so as to align with the European Union General Data Protection

> > Regulation 2016/679 (GDPR).

> >

> > Even if you are not familiar with Mauritius law, the EU GDPR which is

> more

> > popular should tell you the implication of revealing a WHOIS database to

> a

> > non-state prosecutorial actor like yourself who does not have a court

> > warrant to see the redacted sections you seek. Please correct me if I?m

> > wrong in my legal analysis of your request.

> >

> > Perhaps, isn?t it time for the community to revisit the Internet Number

> > Resources review policy

> > <https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal> which was not

> > on the docket for policy at this just-concluded meeting?

> > https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal

> >

> > We might be doing something right this time if that policy will allow for

> > a diligent review of resources including the legacy ones.

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Caleb Ogundele

> >

> >

> >

> > On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 12:17 PM <community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>

> > wrote:

> >

> >> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to

> >> community-discuss at afrinic.net

> >>

> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

> >> community-discuss-request at afrinic.net

> >>

> >> You can reach the person managing the list at

> >> community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net

> >>

> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific

> >> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."

> >>

> >>

> >> Today's Topics:

> >>

> >> 1. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)

> >> 2. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mike Silber)

> >> 3. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Elkins)

> >> 4. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Andrew Alston)

> >> 5. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)

> >> 6. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)

> >> 7. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)

> >> 8. [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC (Sylvain Baya)

> >> 9. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Isabel Odida)

> >> 10. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)

> >> 11. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)

> >> 12. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)

> >> 13. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)

> >> 14. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)

> >> 15. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)

> >> 16. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)

> >> 17. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)

> >> 18. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)

> >> 19. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)

> >>

> >>

> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 1

> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:27:42 +0200

> >> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>

> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16 at seacom.mu>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

> >>

> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

> >>

> >> Mark.

> >>

> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

> >> >

> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how

> >> > to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

> >> >

> >> > Thanks.

> >> >

> >> > Sunday.

> >> >

> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

> >> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

> following

> >> >> news story.

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >>

> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

> >> >>

> >> >> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the moment,

> >> >> I only

> >> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

> >> >> Vermeulen

> >> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

> >> >> ? ? Regards,

> >> >> rfg

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >> _______________________________________________

> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >>

> >>

> >> -------------- next part --------------

> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

> >> URL: <

> >>

> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/7f6aa1b8/attachment-0001.html

> >> >

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 2

> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:46:15 +0200

> >> From: Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com>

> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3 at gmail.com>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> >>

> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to

> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

> >>

> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

> and

> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

> >>

> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space

> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and

> then

> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current

> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those

> processes

> >> may not have the desired outcome.

> >>

> >> Mike

> >>

> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.

> >> >

> >> > Mark.

> >> >

> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

> >> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

> >> >>

> >> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how

> >> to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

> >> >>

> >> >> Thanks.

> >> >>

> >> >> Sunday.

> >> >>

> >> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

> >> >>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

> >> following

> >> >>> news story.

> >> >>>

> >> >>>

> >>

> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

> >> <

> >>

> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

> >

> >>

> >> >>> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment,

> >> I only

> >> >>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

> >> Vermeulen

> >> >>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

> >> >>> Regards,

> >> >>> rfg

> >> >>>

> >> >>>

> >> >>> _______________________________________________

> >> >>> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >

> >> >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>

> >> >>>

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >>

> >> -------------- next part --------------

> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

> >> URL: <

> >>

> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/1d4a9dec/attachment-0001.html

> >> >

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 3

> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:59:57 +0200

> >> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>

> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f at posix.co.za>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

> >>

> >> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to

> >> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting

> >> of non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.

> >>

> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:

> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears

> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

> >> >

> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

> >> >

> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been

> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of

> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving

> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.

> >> >

> >> > Mike

> >> >

> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu

> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:

> >> >>

> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

> >> >>

> >> >> Mark.

> >> >>

> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

> >> >>>

> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see

> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

> >> >>>

> >> >>> Thanks.

> >> >>>

> >> >>> Sunday.

> >> >>>

> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

> >> >>>> following

> >> >>>> news story.

> >> >>>>

> >> >>>>

> >>

> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

> >> >>>>

> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the

> >> >>>> moment, I only

> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

> >> >>>> Vermeulen

> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,

> >> >>>> rfg

> >> >>>>

> >> >>>>

> >> >>>> _______________________________________________

> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >>>>

> >> >>

> >> >> _______________________________________________

> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> --

> >>

> >> Mark James ELKINS? -? Posix Systems - (South) Africa

> >> mje at posix.co.za?????? Tel: +27.826010496 <tel:+27826010496>

> >> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za

> >>

> >> Posix SystemsVCARD for MJ Elkins

> >>

> >> -------------- next part --------------

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> >> >

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 4

> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:10:48 +0000

> >> From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>

> >> To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>,

> >> "community-discuss at afrinic.net" <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID:

> >> <

> >>

> DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0 at DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com

> >> >

> >>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

> >>

> >> I would be very curious to hear from a legal perspective what - if any -

> >> legal liability AfriNIC has in a situation like this.

> >>

> >> The fact is - space has value - and if space is stolen - used for spam

> or

> >> whatever else - and the reputation of said space is damaged - it?s value

> >> decreases. Now I fully realize that space can be hijacked - and at that

> >> point potentially the hijackers may hold the liability. However - when

> the

> >> space seems to have been stolen and sold off by a staff member of the

> >> organization that is meant in effect to the curator of the space - I

> >> question if there is not a liability issue at play if it can be proven

> that

> >> due care was not taken to safe guard against the actions taken.

> >>

> >> I?m no lawyer though so I would really be interested to know the legal

> >> perspective - can an rir be held liable to the actions of its staff if

> it

> >> did not adequately protect against the actions taken.

> >>

> >> Andrew

> >>

> >> Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

> >> ________________________________

> >> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>

> >> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 3:59:57 PM

> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >>

> >>

> >> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to

> >> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case

> (looting of

> >> non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.

> >>

> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:

> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to

> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

> >>

> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

> and

> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

> >>

> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space

> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and

> then

> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current

> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those

> processes

> >> may not have the desired outcome.

> >>

> >> Mike

> >>

> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu<mailto:

> >> mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:

> >>

> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

> >>

> >> Mark.

> >>

> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

> >>

> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to

> >> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

> >>

> >> Thanks.

> >>

> >> Sunday.

> >>

> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following

> >> news story.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

> >> <

> >>

> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

> >> >

> >> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I

> >> only

> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

> Vermeulen

> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

> >> Regards,

> >> rfg

> >>

> >>

> >> _______________________________________________

> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>

> >>

> >>

> >> _______________________________________________

> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> _______________________________________________

> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>

> >>

> >>

> >> --

> >>

> >> Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa

> >> mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za> Tel:

> >> +27.826010496<tel:+27826010496>

> >> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za<

> >> https://ftth.posix.co.za>

> >>

> >> [Posix Systems][VCARD for MJ Elkins]

> >> -------------- next part --------------

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> >> >

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 5

> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:11:04 +0200

> >> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>

> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17 at seacom.mu>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

> >>

> >> I don't disagree with that either.

> >>

> >> I am certain AFRINIC are working on this, and I know there will be no

> >> shortage of queries about this from the field, much to our

> >> already-clogged e-mail boxes. I don't want to do the jobs of others; no

> >> one is doing mine for me.

> >>

> >> My preferred current focus - your last paragraph, below.

> >>

> >> Mark.

> >>

> >> On 5/Dec/19 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:

> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears

> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

> >> >

> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

> >> >

> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been

> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of

> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving

> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.?

> >> >

> >> > Mike

> >> >

> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu

> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:

> >> >>

> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

> >> >>

> >> >> Mark.

> >> >>

> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

> >> >>>

> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see

> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

> >> >>>

> >> >>> Thanks.

> >> >>>

> >> >>> Sunday.

> >> >>>

> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

> >> >>>> following

> >> >>>> news story.

> >> >>>>

> >> >>>>

> >>

> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

> >> >>>>

> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the

> >> >>>> moment, I only

> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

> >> >>>> Vermeulen

> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,

> >> >>>> rfg

> >> >>>>

> >> >>>>

> >> >>>> _______________________________________________

> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >>>>

> >> >>

> >> >> _______________________________________________

> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >>

> >> -------------- next part --------------

> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

> >> URL: <

> >>

> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/c8c491fa/attachment-0001.html

> >> >

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 6

> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:54:21 +0100

> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>

> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"

> >>

> >> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest

> >> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy

> >> space.

> >>

> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal

> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

> >> done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand

> >> accountable for their deeds.

> >>

> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7

> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover

> >> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active

> >> use, why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for

> >> the common good?

> >>

> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal

> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by

> now.

> >>

> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf

> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,

> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should

> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are

> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our

> >> time and intellect.

> >>

> >> Sunday.

> >>

> >> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:

> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears

> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

> >> >

> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

> >> >

> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been

> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of

> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving

> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.

> >> >

> >> > Mike

> >> >

> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu

> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:

> >> >>

> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

> >> >>

> >> >> Mark.

> >> >>

> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

> >> >>>

> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see

> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

> >> >>>

> >> >>> Thanks.

> >> >>>

> >> >>> Sunday.

> >> >>>

> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

> >> >>>> following

> >> >>>> news story.

> >> >>>>

> >> >>>>

> >>

> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

> >> >>>>

> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the

> >> >>>> moment, I only

> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

> >> >>>> Vermeulen

> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,

> >> >>>> rfg

> >> >>>>

> >> >>>>

> >> >>>> _______________________________________________

> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >>>>

> >> >>

> >> >> _______________________________________________

> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >>

> >> --

> >> --------------------------------------------------

> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan

> >> Managing Director

> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com

> >> ---------------------------------------------------

> >>

> >> -------------- next part --------------

> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

> >> URL: <

> >>

> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/118317f5/attachment-0001.html

> >> >

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 7

> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:15:59 +0200

> >> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>

> >> To: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>

> >> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID:

> >> <CAG1eoi3w-F2Ui-BfiKmBqYJ=

> >> srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw at mail.gmail.com>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

> >>

> >> I have to agree with this. As shocking and disappointing as the

> >> revelations

> >> might be, this makes the most sense to me.

> >>

> >> Omo

> >>

> >> On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, 20:56 Sunday Folayan, <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

> >>

> >> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway

> suggest

> >> > that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on

> legacy

> >> > space.

> >> >

> >> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal

> >> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

> >> done.

> >> > I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

> >> established,

> >> > the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for

> >> > their deeds.

> >> >

> >> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

> >> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of

> 7

> >> > years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to

> discover

> >> > the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active

> >> use,

> >> > why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for

> the

> >> > common good?

> >> >

> >> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their

> legal

> >> > department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by

> >> now.

> >> >

> >> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf

> >> of

> >> > the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,

> with

> >> > the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather

> >> > apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for

> >> > developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and

> >> > intellect.

> >> > Sunday.

> >> >

> >> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears

> to

> >> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

> >> >

> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

> >> and

> >> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

> >> >

> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

> space

> >> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and

> >> then

> >> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current

> >> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those

> >> processes

> >> > may not have the desired outcome.

> >> >

> >> > Mike

> >> >

> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.

> >> >

> >> > Mark.

> >> >

> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

> >> >

> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how

> to

> >> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

> >> >

> >> > Thanks.

> >> >

> >> > Sunday.

> >> >

> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

> >> >

> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

> following

> >> > news story.

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >>

> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

> >> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I

> >> > only

> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

> >> Vermeulen

> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

> >> > Regards,

> >> > rfg

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://

> >> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >> > --

> >> > --------------------------------------------------

> >> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan

> >> > Managing Director

> >> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

> >> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

> >> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

> >> > Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com

> >> > ---------------------------------------------------

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >> -------------- next part --------------

> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

> >> URL: <

> >>

> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/582fac38/attachment-0001.html

> >> >

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 8

> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:28:06 +0100

> >> From: Sylvain Baya <abscoco at gmail.com>

> >> To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>,

> >> "community-discuss at afrinic.net" <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: [Community-Discuss] [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID:

> >> <

> >> CAJjTEvE+sHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS+AwyF6Kg at mail.gmail.com>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

> >>

> >> Hi all,

> >>

> >> Le jeudi 5 d?cembre 2019, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za> a ?crit :

> >>

> >> > Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to

> >> > manipulate the non-legacy space -

> >> >

> >>

> >> Dear Mark,

> >> ...i agree !

> >>

> >> yet it happened. In this case (looting of non-legacy space), the RSA has

> >> > meant nothing.

> >> >

> >>

> >> As you say, i take you on words ; then if the RSA (Registration Service

> >> Agreement) could

> >> easily be bypassed, how to deal with our 'emerged' problem ?

> >>

> >> ...perhaps time to seriously reconsider the long life DPP (Draft Policy

> >> Proposal) [1] ?

> >> __

> >> [1]: <https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp>

> >>

> >> Shalom,

> >> --sb.

> >>

> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears

> to

> >> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

> >> >

> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

> >> and

> >> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

> >> >

> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

> space

> >> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and

> >> then

> >> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current

> >> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those

> >> processes

> >> > may not have the desired outcome.

> >> >

> >> > Mike

> >> >

> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.

> >> >

> >> > Mark.

> >> >

> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

> >> >

> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how

> to

> >> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

> >> >

> >> > Thanks.

> >> >

> >> > Sunday.

> >> >

> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

> >> >

> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

> following

> >> > news story.

> >> >

> >> > https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-

> >> >

> >>

> resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

> >> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I

> >> > only

> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

> >> Vermeulen

> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

> >> > Regards,

> >> > rfg

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://

> >> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >> > --

> >> >

> >> > Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa

> >> > mje at posix.co.za Tel: +27.826010496 <+27826010496>

> >> > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za

> >> >

> >> > [image: Posix Systems][image: VCARD for MJ Elkins]

> >> >

> >>

> >>

> >> --

> >>

> >> --

> >> Best Regards !

> >> baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] | <https://www.cmnog.cm> | <

> >> https://survey.cmnog.cm>

> >> Subscribe to Mailing List : <

> >> https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/>

> >> __

> >> #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|?#?Romains15?:33?*Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec

> >> vous tous! ?#?Amen?!*?

> >> ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement?

> >> ?*Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me

> soupire

> >> apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!*? (#Psaumes42:2)

> >> -------------- next part --------------

> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

> >> URL: <

> >>

> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/63b5ef24/attachment-0001.html

> >> >

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 9

> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:43:48 +0100

> >> From: Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com>

> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

> >> Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

> >>

> >> I know what sparked this story. Some people have no chill. How

> convenient

> >> following the last meeting in June. Ok, and then what? What have you

> >> benefited?

> >>

> >> Sent from my iPhone

> >>

> >> > On 4 Dec 2019, at 18:23, Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

> >> wrote:

> >> >

> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

> following

> >> > news story.

> >> >

> >> >

> >>

> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

> >> >

> >> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I

> >> only

> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

> >> Vermeulen

> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > Regards,

> >> > rfg

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 10

> >> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:44:58 -0800

> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <18818.1575585898 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> >>

> >> In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,

> >> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

> >>

> >> >The community has been informed that there is already some internal

> >> >investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

> >> >done.

> >>

> >> Mr. Folayan,

> >>

> >> These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,

> >> 2019, a full three months ago. Since that time there has not been a

> >> single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,

> >> or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague

> assurances

> >> that these matters are being looked into.

> >>

> >> Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns

> >> about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full

> >> three years ago.

> >>

> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html

> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html

> >>

> >> I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again

> >> repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,

> >> albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention

> >> paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any

> >> concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.

> >>

> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html

> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html

> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html

> >>

> >> At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly

> >> in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive

> >> issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to

> >> entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it

> >> were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the

> >> courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za. Neither the board nor

> >> the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any

> >> clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will

> >> either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders

> >> and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive

> >> any of the findings that it may reach. And yet despite having had

> >> either three full months or three full years to look into these

> >> matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and

> >> despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming

> >> from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.

> >>

> >> This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the

> >> community's patience to come to an end? Does the community have any

> >> assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another

> >> three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield

> >> anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the

> >> current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions

> >> of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?

> >>

> >> On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at

> long

> >> last be forthcoming?

> >>

> >> >I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

> >> >established, the law should take its course and people should stand

> >> >accountable for their deeds.

> >>

> >> This assertion on your part begs four further questions:

> >>

> >> 1) Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented

> >> in the MyBroadband.co.za article, the majority of which were drawn from

> >> publicly available sources including open government records, what more

> >> will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and

> intentions

> >> are established"? What parts of the abundant documentary evidence

> already

> >> presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?

> >>

> >> 2) If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za article, it can be

> >> persuasively

> >> demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in

> fact

> >> purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC

> >> itself is one of the aggrieved parties? And if so, would you hope and

> >> expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and

> >> all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?

> >>

> >> 3) Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and

> >> endemic

> >> within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do

> you

> >> have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all

> >> likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?

> >>

> >> 4) What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-

> >> documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from

> >> AFRINIC's own free pool? Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed

> by

> >> AFRINIC? Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever

> they

> >> may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty

> >> on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?

> >>

> >> >I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

> >> >organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7

> >> >years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to

> discover

> >> >the manipulations.

> >>

> >> On this point, you and I are in complete agreement. "The system", such

> >> as it is, is quite self-evidently broken. But this raises the further

> >> question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at

> >> AFRINIC,

> >> while all of this was going on. Is it even plausible that a single bad

> >> actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars

> >> worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a

> >> several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC

> >> staff even noticed any of this?

> >>

> >> >For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal

> >> >department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by

> >> now.

> >>

> >> See above. Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with

> >> respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself. No other

> >> single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much

> >> valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself. And yet we have, as yet, no

> >> clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff

> >> member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone

> >> that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated

> >> by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.

> >>

> >> If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.

> >>

> >> >While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf

> >> >of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,

> >> >with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should

> >> >rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are

> >> >available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of

> our

> >> >time and intellect.

> >>

> >> See above. With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we

> >> may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"? I

> have

> >> so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any

> >> document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of

> >> AFRINIC. In fact, quite the opposite. I see that a purported three

> >> month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly

> >> reporting on so far. I see an attempt to shift the blame for this

> >> colossal

> >> and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders

> >> while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of

> >> AFRINIC itself. I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action

> >> will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a

> >> backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general

> >> disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific

> >> national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.

> >>

> >> For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,

> >> Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.

> >> The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and

> >> to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or

> >> placed

> >> under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to

> all.

> >> AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding

> >> responsibility.

> >>

> >> I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively

> >> remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing

> >> after-effects. I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now

> >> evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the

> carpet

> >> will no longer be considered a vialble option.

> >>

> >>

> >> Regards,

> >> rfg

> >>

> >>

> >> P.S. I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower"

> in

> >> this context Mr. Folayan. That term is usually used in reference to

> some

> >> insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed

> >> first-hand some malfeasance. Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this

> >> description. Rather, we have labored as outsiders only. We have not

> >> been privy to any "inside" information. Quite the opposite in fact. We

> >> have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests

> >> for information by AFRINIC staff.

> >>

> >> Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our

> >> reasonable

> >> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.

> >> Exactly

> >> such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other

> >> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists

> upon

> >> request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such

> unredacted

> >> WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were

> rejected

> >> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved

> policy

> >> was cited as the basis for the denial.

> >>

> >> At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate explanation

> >> for

> >> this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be

> >> granted at long last. Certain portions of my research cannot be

> completed

> >> without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis

> >> for

> >> the rejection of such requests.

> >>

> >>

> >> P.P.S. As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the

> >> numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place. I feel

> >> compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been

> >> double-victimized in at least two specific instances.

> >>

> >> First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4

> >> blocks "liberated" from its free pool. Secondarily and even more

> >> insultingly

> >> however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also

> >> arranged

> >> to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be

> associated

> >> with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other

> >> legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4

> >> allocations.

> >>

> >> I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15

> block,

> >> registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the

> >> non-legacy

> >> 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.

> >> These

> >> blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six

> million

> >> U.S. dollars.

> >>

> >> As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD

> >> mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as

> MEMBER-ONLY,

> >> as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any

> >> actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to

> >> AFRINIC.

> >>

> >> I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this

> >> regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it

> does

> >> appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-

> >> stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years

> >> on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be

> due

> >> on these IPv4 assignments.

> >>

> >> Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further

> >> clarification

> >> with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been

> >> collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for

> >> any year since their allocation to and association with the

> organizations

> >> noted.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 11

> >> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 17:24:26 -0800

> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <19435.1575595466 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> >>

> >> In message <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>,

> >> Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com> wrote:

> >>

> >> >I know what sparked this story.

> >>

> >> If you have something to say, then you have our attention and the floor.

> >> Please proceed.

> >>

> >>

> >> Regards,

> >> rfg

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 12

> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 10:04:06 +0100

> >> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>

> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

> >>

> >> Hi Sunday, all,

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let

> me

> >> tell why.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My first

> >> AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly after,

> >> during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could contribute to

> >> the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and joining Ernest in

> his

> >> trips to do the Registration Services training so I do IPv6 trainings.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos, I

> >> was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the Madrid

> >> Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from Sunday, I could

> >> resolve that on the next day and flight again to do the training.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,

> >> and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been

> doing

> >> those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been able to

> take

> >> advantage of that.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as

> well

> >> as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much together,

> >> you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost 15 years.

> Of

> >> course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a hidden face.

> As

> >> humans, we all have positive and negative things. But I?m really

> shocked, I

> >> still resist to believe it.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the position

> >> of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use

> >> your own name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe

> >> someone,? may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to

> >> appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly and

> >> non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean he is

> >> still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or something

> >> similar.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents. If

> >> you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,

> and

> >> may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and

> >> involvement an all this.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal interest.

> >> My only interest is to know the *real true* and I?m sure everybody

> agrees

> >> on that.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so no

> >> doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very

> >> thankful for that.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Regards,

> >>

> >> Jordi

> >>

> >> @jordipalet

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com> escribi?:

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest

> >> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy

> >> space.

> >>

> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal

> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

> done.

> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

> established,

> >> the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for

> >> their deeds.

> >>

> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7

> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover

> >> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active

> use,

> >> why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the

> >> common good?

> >>

> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal

> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by

> now.

> >>

> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf

> of

> >> the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with

> >> the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather

> >> apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for

> >> developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and

> >> intellect.

> >>

> >> Sunday.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:

> >>

> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to

> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

> and

> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space

> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and

> then

> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current

> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those

> processes

> >> may not have the desired outcome.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Mike

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

> >>

> >> Mark.

> >>

> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

> >>

> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

> >>

> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to

> >> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

> >>

> >> Thanks.

> >>

> >> Sunday.

> >>

> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

> >>

> >>

> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following

> >> news story.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

> >> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I

> >> only

> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

> Vermeulen

> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

> >> Regards,

> >> rfg

> >>

> >>

> >> _______________________________________________

> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> _______________________________________________

> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> _______________________________________________

> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> --

> >> --------------------------------------------------

> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan

> >> Managing Director

> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com

> >> ---------------------------------------------------

> >> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss

> mailing

> >> list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> **********************************************

> >> IPv4 is over

> >> Are you ready for the new Internet ?

> >> http://www.theipv6company.com

> >> The IPv6 Company

> >>

> >> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or

> >> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of

> >> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized

> >> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this

> >> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly

> >> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the

> >> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution

> or

> >> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including

> >> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal

> >> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this

> >> communication and delete it.

> >>

> >> -------------- next part --------------

> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

> >> URL: <

> >>

> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/e007b6dd/attachment-0001.html

> >> >

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 13

> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:16:03 +0100

> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>

> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>, General Discussions

> >> of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

> >>

> >> Dear Mr Guilmette,

> >>

> >> Regrettably, I do not monitor the press, but selected channels such as

> >> this list. It seems I got your attention, or you got my attention, or we

> >> both got each other's attention. Let us therefore maximize the

> possession.

> >>

> >> Important and interesting questions, that you have raised in this email.

> >> Let us put some punch in it. Kindly change the TO: field to

> >> ceo at afrinic.net, and cc the Community just to make sure it is not

> >> ignored, then resend it. I am sure the CEO will answer all the questions

> >> you here posed to me. Pity he has to start his tenure with these hard

> >> nuts and curveballs, but he is capable. He speaks for the Company, not

> me.

> >>

> >> I am equally sure that the Community appreciates the great work done,

> >> and no one supports the exposed fraud. You are a stakeholder, and not

> >> some casual bystander so please note this. What you conveniently

> >> ignored, is that the #1 accused company insider is the eye of the

> >> company on the policy lists, where you raised the issues.

> >>

> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should

> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more

> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.

> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.

> >>

> >> My use of the term "Whistleblowers" is appropriate, as I looked at one

> >> of your reference links, and indeed, someone confirmed to you privately

> >> that your hunch is right. If you do not claim the honour, they should,

> >> because you rightly built on their work!

> >>

> >> Great job you are doing.

> >>

> >> Have a great day.

> >>

> >> Sunday.

> >>

> >> On 05/12/2019 23:44, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

> >> > In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,

> >> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

> >> >

> >> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal

> >> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

> >> >> done.

> >> > Mr. Folayan,

> >> >

> >> > These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,

> >> > 2019, a full three months ago. Since that time there has not been a

> >> > single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,

> >> > or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague

> >> assurances

> >> > that these matters are being looked into.

> >> >

> >> > Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns

> >> > about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full

> >> > three years ago.

> >> >

> >> >

> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html

> >> >

> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html

> >> >

> >> > I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again

> >> > repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,

> >> > albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention

> >> > paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any

> >> > concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.

> >> >

> >> >

> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html

> >> >

> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html

> >> >

> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html

> >> >

> >> > At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly

> >> > in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive

> >> > issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to

> >> > entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it

> >> > were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the

> >> > courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za. Neither the board nor

> >> > the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any

> >> > clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will

> >> > either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders

> >> > and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive

> >> > any of the findings that it may reach. And yet despite having had

> >> > either three full months or three full years to look into these

> >> > matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and

> >> > despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming

> >> > from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel

> patience.

> >> >

> >> > This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the

> >> > community's patience to come to an end? Does the community have any

> >> > assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another

> >> > three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield

> >> > anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the

> >> > current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions

> >> > of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?

> >> >

> >> > On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at

> >> long

> >> > last be forthcoming?

> >> >

> >> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

> >> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand

> >> >> accountable for their deeds.

> >> > This assertion on your part begs four further questions:

> >> >

> >> > 1) Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been

> presented

> >> > in the MyBroadband.co.za article, the majority of which were drawn

> from

> >> > publicly available sources including open government records, what

> more

> >> > will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and

> >> intentions

> >> > are established"? What parts of the abundant documentary evidence

> >> already

> >> > presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?

> >> >

> >> > 2) If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za article, it can be

> >> persuasively

> >> > demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in

> >> fact

> >> > purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that

> AFRINIC

> >> > itself is one of the aggrieved parties? And if so, would you hope and

> >> > expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and

> >> > all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?

> >> >

> >> > 3) Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and

> >> endemic

> >> > within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do

> >> you

> >> > have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all

> >> > likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?

> >> >

> >> > 4) What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-

> >> > documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks

> from

> >> > AFRINIC's own free pool? Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed

> >> by

> >> > AFRINIC? Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever

> >> they

> >> > may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten

> booty

> >> > on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?

> >> >

> >> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

> >> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards

> of 7

> >> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to

> >> discover

> >> >> the manipulations.

> >> > On this point, you and I are in complete agreement. "The system",

> such

> >> > as it is, is quite self-evidently broken. But this raises the further

> >> > question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at

> >> AFRINIC,

> >> > while all of this was going on. Is it even plausible that a single

> bad

> >> > actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars

> >> > worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a

> >> > several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC

> >> > staff even noticed any of this?

> >> >

> >> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their

> legal

> >> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by

> >> now.

> >> > See above. Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced

> with

> >> > respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself. No other

> >> > single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much

> >> > valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself. And yet we have, as yet, no

> >> > clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any

> staff

> >> > member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone

> >> > that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated

> >> > by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.

> >> >

> >> > If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new

> dictionary.

> >> >

> >> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on

> behalf

> >> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system

> here,

> >> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should

> >> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are

> >> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of

> >> our

> >> >> time and intellect.

> >> > See above. With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we

> >> > may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"? I

> >> have

> >> > so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any

> >> > document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member

> of

> >> > AFRINIC. In fact, quite the opposite. I see that a purported three

> >> > month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth

> publicly

> >> > reporting on so far. I see an attempt to shift the blame for this

> >> colossal

> >> > and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders

> >> > while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of

> >> > AFRINIC itself. I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action

> >> > will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a

> >> > backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a

> general

> >> > disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific

> >> > national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.

> >> >

> >> > For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances

> misplaced,

> >> > Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.

> >> > The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and

> >> > to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or

> >> placed

> >> > under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to

> >> all.

> >> > AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding

> >> responsibility.

> >> >

> >> > I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and

> effectively

> >> > remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still

> ongoing

> >> > after-effects. I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now

> >> > evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the

> >> carpet

> >> > will no longer be considered a vialble option.

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > Regards,

> >> > rfg

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > P.S. I must strenuously object to your use of the word

> "whistleblower"

> >> in

> >> > this context Mr. Folayan. That term is usually used in reference to

> >> some

> >> > insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed

> >> > first-hand some malfeasance. Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this

> >> > description. Rather, we have labored as outsiders only. We have not

> >> > been privy to any "inside" information. Quite the opposite in fact.

> We

> >> > have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable

> requests

> >> > for information by AFRINIC staff.

> >> >

> >> > Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our

> >> reasonable

> >> > requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.

> >> Exactly

> >> > such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four

> other

> >> > Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists

> >> upon

> >> > request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such

> >> unredacted

> >> > WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were

> >> rejected

> >> > out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved

> >> policy

> >> > was cited as the basis for the denial.

> >> >

> >> > At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate

> >> explanation for

> >> > this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to

> be

> >> > granted at long last. Certain portions of my research cannot be

> >> completed

> >> > without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved

> basis

> >> for

> >> > the rejection of such requests.

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > P.P.S. As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the

> >> > numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place. I feel

> >> > compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively

> been

> >> > double-victimized in at least two specific instances.

> >> >

> >> > First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large

> IPv4

> >> > blocks "liberated" from its free pool. Secondarily and even more

> >> insultingly

> >> > however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also

> >> arranged

> >> > to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be

> >> associated

> >> > with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other

> >> > legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired

> IPv4

> >> > allocations.

> >> >

> >> > I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15

> >> block,

> >> > registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the

> >> non-legacy

> >> > 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.

> >> These

> >> > blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six

> >> million

> >> > U.S. dollars.

> >> >

> >> > As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD

> >> > mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as

> >> MEMBER-ONLY,

> >> > as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold

> any

> >> > actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees

> to

> >> > AFRINIC.

> >> >

> >> > I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in

> this

> >> > regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it

> >> does

> >> > appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have

> -both-

> >> > stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for

> years

> >> > on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be

> >> due

> >> > on these IPv4 assignments.

> >> >

> >> > Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further

> >> clarification

> >> > with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have

> been

> >> > collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned,

> for

> >> > any year since their allocation to and association with the

> >> organizations

> >> > noted.

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >>

> >> --

> >> --------------------------------------------------

> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan

> >> Managing Director

> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com

> >> ---------------------------------------------------

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 14

> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:07:01 -0800

> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <21084.1575626821 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> >>

> >> Mr. Folayan,

> >>

> >> Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful

> response.

> >>

> >> At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond

> >> what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.

> >>

> >>

> >> In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,

> >> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

> >>

> >> >I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should

> >> >conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more

> >> >honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking

> stakeholder.

> >> >It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.

> >>

> >> Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.

> >>

> >> Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see

> >> the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC. That is quite certainly not a

> >> goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as

> >> you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder

> >> should wish for. AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global

> >> Internet governance. I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.

> >> No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a

> >> few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second. And to use an

> >> even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing

> >> smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than

> >> I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.

> >>

> >> If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being

> >> formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested

> >> that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already

> >> sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being

> >> preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere. Now I may stand on the comfortable

> >> shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but

> >> I do not question the utility of the journey.

> >>

> >> The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters

> >> of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose. Time will

> >> tell if that is an accurate assesment.

> >>

> >>

> >> Regards,

> >> rfg

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 15

> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:14:31 +0100

> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>

> >> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>, General

> >> Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed at gmail.com>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

> >>

> >> Good points Jordi, and thanks for the throwback on the very many amazing

> >> sacrifices we all made, to grow the Internet in Africa.

> >>

> >> I will resist asking Ernest to defend himself here, We are not

> >> constituted as a competent jury, neither do we want to compromise the

> >> ongoing investigations.

> >>

> >> Questions are appropriate, so will be his own admissions or rebuttals,

> >> when the investigations are completed.

> >>

> >> I may be wrong, but that is my own expectations and position.

> >>

> >> Sunday.

> >>

> >> On 06/12/2019 10:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Hi Sunday, all,

> >> >

> >> > I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let

> >> > me tell why.

> >> >

> >> > I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My

> >> > first AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly

> >> > after, during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could

> >> > contribute to the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and

> >> > joining Ernest in his trips to do the Registration Services training

> >> > so I do IPv6 trainings.

> >> >

> >> > Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos,

> >> > I was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the

> >> > Madrid Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from

> >> > Sunday, I could resolve that on the next day and flight again to do

> >> > the training.

> >> >

> >> > My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,

> >> > and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been

> >> > doing those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been

> >> > able to take advantage of that.

> >> >

> >> > The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as

> >> > well as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much

> >> > together, you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost

> >> > 15 years. Of course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a

> >> > hidden face. As humans, we all have positive and negative things. But

> >> > I?m really shocked, I still resist to believe it.

> >> >

> >> > I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the

> >> > position of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think

> >> > you will use your own name for registering companies, or instead you

> >> > will bribe someone, may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your

> >> > family name to appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly

> >> > and non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean

> >> > he is still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or

> >> > something similar.

> >> >

> >> > Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents.

> >> > If you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be

> enough.

> >> >

> >> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,

> >> > and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and

> >> > involvement an all this.

> >> >

> >> > Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal

> >> > interest. My only interest is to know the **real true** and I?m sure

> >> > everybody agrees on that.

> >> >

> >> > Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so

> >> > no doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very

> >> > thankful for that.

> >> >

> >> > Regards,

> >> >

> >> > Jordi

> >> >

> >> > @jordipalet

> >> >

> >> > El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com

> >> > <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> escribi?:

> >> >

> >> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway

> >> > suggest that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only

> >> > on legacy space.

> >> >

> >> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal

> >> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

> >> > done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

> >> > established, the law should take its course and people should stand

> >> > accountable for their deeds.

> >> >

> >> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

> >> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of

> >> > 7 years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to

> >> > discover the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or

> >> > in active use, why would or should they not have been returned to the

> >> > Registry for the common good?

> >> >

> >> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their

> >> > legal department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with

> >> > gusto by now.

> >> >

> >> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf

> >> > of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,

> >> > with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should

> >> > rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are

> >> > available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of

> >> > our time and intellect.

> >> >

> >> > Sunday.

> >> >

> >> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there

> >> > appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy

> >> > space.

> >> >

> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the

> >> > problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space

> issue.

> >> >

> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been

> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of

> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then

> >> > moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired

> >> > outcome.

> >> >

> >> > Mike

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu

> >> > <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.

> >> >

> >> > Mark.

> >> >

> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically

> >> > ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet

> >> > in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces

> >> > under some form of RSA?

> >> >

> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let

> >> > us see how to help and empower the people doing useful

> >> > work for Africa.

> >> >

> >> > Thanks.

> >> >

> >> > Sunday.

> >> >

> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

> >> >

> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think

> >> > about the following

> >> > news story.

> >> >

> >> >

> >>

> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

> >> >

> >> > ? I will have more to say about this in due course.?

> >> > For the moment, I only

> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by

> >> > myself and Jan Vermeulen

> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably

> involved.

> >> > ? ? Regards,

> >> > rfg

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> >

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> >

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> >

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:

> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> >

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >> > --

> >> > --------------------------------------------------

> >> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan

> >> > Managing Director

> >> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

> >> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

> >> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

> >> > Email:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>,

> >> sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>

> >> > ---------------------------------------------------

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss

> >> > mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > **********************************************

> >> > IPv4 is over

> >> > Are you ready for the new Internet ?

> >> > http://www.theipv6company.com

> >> > The IPv6 Company

> >> >

> >> > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged

> >> > or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive

> >> > use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty

> >> > authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of

> >> > this information, even if partially, including attached files, is

> >> > strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you

> >> > are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,

> >> > distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if

> >> > partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be

> >> > considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original

> >> > sender to inform about this communication and delete it.

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >>

> >> --

> >> --------------------------------------------------

> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan

> >> Managing Director

> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com

> >> ---------------------------------------------------

> >>

> >> -------------- next part --------------

> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

> >> URL: <

> >>

> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/8c6c63d5/attachment-0001.html

> >> >

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 16

> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 12:17:52 +0200

> >> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>

> >> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>

> >> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> > On 6 Dec 2019, at 11:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <

> >> community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote:

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,

> >> and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and

> >> involvement an all this.

> >> >

> >>

> >>

> >> :-) Might as well setup a confession booth and provide absolution of

> >> souls. On a serious note, we need a proper investigation. Let?s wait

> to

> >> hear from the CEO

> >>

> >> Omo

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> -------------- next part --------------

> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

> >> URL: <

> >>

> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/4e0f75fc/attachment-0001.html

> >> >

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 17

> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:21:40 +0100

> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>

> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>, General Discussions

> >> of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10 at gmail.com>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

> >>

> >> Dear Mr Guilmette,

> >>

> >> On 06/12/2019 11:07, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

> >> > Mr. Folayan,

> >> >

> >> > Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful

> >> response.

> >> >

> >> > At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and

> beyond

> >> > what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,

> >> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

> >> >

> >> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we

> should

> >> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much

> more

> >> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking

> >> stakeholder.

> >> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.

> >> > Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.

> >> >

> >> > Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to

> see

> >> > the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC. That is quite certainly not a

> >> > goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as

> >> > you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder

> >> > should wish for. AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global

> >> > Internet governance. I cannot even envision things as being

> otherwise.

> >> > No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a

> >> > few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second. And to use an

> >> > even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing

> >> > smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more

> than

> >> > I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the

> plains.

> >> >

> >> > If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was

> being

> >> > formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested

> >> > that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already

> >> > sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it,

> being

> >> > preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere. Now I may stand on the comfortable

> >> > shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but

> >> > I do not question the utility of the journey.

> >> >

> >> > The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think,

> matters

> >> > of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose. Time will

> >> > tell if that is an accurate assesment.

> >>

> >>

> >> This is most assuring and comforting at the same time.

> >>

> >> If I have sounded off-key, please accept my sincere apologies, and thank

> >> you very much for the good job you have done for the community so far.

> >> History will never forget your role and progressive disposition at this

> >> point in time.

> >>

> >> When AfriNIC was being formed, the challenges of today, were not

> >> envisioned in the very many ways that they now present themselves.

> >> Africa has come a long way. Unfortunately, there are still many more

> >> oceans to cross, but we will all band together as a purposeful fleet.

> >> That is how we can all weather the storms that may come, but sure they

> >> will come.

> >>

> >> With kind Regards ...

> >>

> >> Sunday.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 18

> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:58:27 -0800

> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <21283.1575629907 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> >>

> >> In message <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>,

> >> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:

> >>

> >> >I also believe that he is a smart guy.

> >>

> >> I would not dispute that characterization in the slightest.

> >>

> >> >So, put yourself in the position of

> >> >a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use

> >> your o

> >> >wn name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe

> >> someone,=C2=A0

> >> > may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear

> in

> >> an

> >> >y documents? I feel this is really silly and non-understandable.

> >>

> >> And yet it seemed to work, for years on end, with no one raising so much

> >> as an eyebrow because nobody seriously investigated or seriously looked

> >> at all of the relevant corporate documents and WHOIS records and, in

> >> particular, the historical WHOIS records, including but not limited to

> >> these ones:

> >>

> >> ORG-AI2-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD

> >> ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB

> >> ORG-IA41-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP

> >> ORG-ZZ139-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW

> >> ORG-ZZ23-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N

> >>

> >> I have been chasing down miscreants on the Internet for more than 20

> years

> >> now. One of the lessons I have learned in that time is that none of

> them

> >> are ten feet tall, and the majority of them absolutely suck at OPSEC.

> It

> >> is almost as if some part of them is deluding their own brains into the

> >> false belief that what they are doing is not really wrong, in some

> >> sense, and that they are somehow actually entitled to the stuff they are

> >> stealing, and that thus, at some level, they don't actually need to hide

> >> what they are doing all that throughly, because just as White House

> Chief

> >> of Staff Mick Mulvaney did not long ago... much to the shock of

> >> everyone...

> >> if they are ever caught and confronted they assume that they will just

> say

> >> "Yea. So? We do that all of the time. Get over it!"

> >>

> >> >So maybe

> >> >somebody used him, which doesn=E2=80=99t mean he is still guilty

> >> =E2=80=9Cin

> >> >vigilando=E2=80=9D because he trusted anyone else, or something

> similar.

> >>

> >> It's a nice thought, and you are a generous person to allow this

> >> possibility

> >> Jordi. All I can say is that other information, not yet made public,

> >> appears to rule out the possibility that Mr. Byaruhanga was either an

> >> unwitting stooge or a convenient fall guy.

> >>

> >> >Do we believe in =E2=80=9Cpresumption of innocence=E2=80=9D? I do,

> >> despite

> >> >documents. If you don=E2=80=99t know the complete background, documents

> >> may

> >> >not be enough.

> >>

> >> I agree.

> >>

> >> That having been said, I hope that you will, as I have, spend some time

> >> carefully scrutinizing both the current and historical WHOIS records

> >> associated with the ORGanizations and the IPv4 blocks listed in the two

> >> tables in Jan's article. If you do that, I think that you will be, as

> >> I was, hard pressed to explain all of the quite glaring anomalies in

> >> any way that does not involve a great deal of very deliberate malfesance

> >> on somebody's part. Once you are convinced of that, then the question

> >> becomes: Who is responsible? And it is at that point that the various

> >> official governmental corporate registration records would seem to

> become

> >> very relevant.

> >>

> >> >So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,

> and

> >> >may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and

> >> involvement

> >> >an all this.

> >>

> >> I would like to echo that sentiment.

> >>

> >> Jan Vermeulen and myself have tried, repeatedly, and over some

> significant

> >> time now to reach him, both via voice, at a number of different phone

> >> numbers

> >> that we have identified as being associated with him, and also via

> email,

> >> at various of his known email addresses, and we have been utterly unable

> >> to

> >> do so. We both very much look forward to speaking with him and getting

> >> his

> >> side of the story, if he has one.

> >>

> >> That having been said, we cannot be blamed, I think, for reaching

> certain

> >> reasonable conclusions when Jan's industry sources informed him, less

> than

> >> a day after I had attempted to confront Ernest, via email, with the

> facts

> >> arrayed against him, that he had abruptly resigned his position at

> AFRINIC

> >> after 15 years on the job.

> >>

> >> His abrupt resignation was and remains his only apparent response to our

> >> inquiries.

> >>

> >>

> >> Regards,

> >> rfg

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 19

> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 03:16:57 -0800

> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <21648.1575631017 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> >>

> >> In message <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>,

> >> Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> wrote:

> >>

> >> >On a serious note, we need a proper investigation. Let's

> >> >wait to hear from the CEO

> >>

> >> Have any of us been doing otherwise, for lo these past three months now?

> >>

> >> Have we been afforded any other choice in the matter?

> >>

> >> Can AFRINIC clean its own stables?

> >>

> >>

> >> Regards,

> >> rfg

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Subject: Digest Footer

> >>

> >> _______________________________________________

> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >>

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1

> >> *************************************************

> >>

> >

> >

> > --

> > *Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb*

> > *muyiwacaleb at gmail.com <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>*

> > *234 - 8077377378*

> > *234 - 07030777969*

> > _______________________________________________

> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >

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> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191210/5dbbab9c/attachment-0001.html

> >

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 2

> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:56:27 +0000

> From: Arnaud AMELINA <amelnaud at gmail.com>

> To: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>

> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>,

> Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>

> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547,

> Issue 1

> Message-ID:

> <CAGDMR_cw7qBFFC=jd60noD=

> DPAgiPwY1ozQCaG77Ax29ELZikA at mail.gmail.com>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>

> Hi Community,

>

> Policy or not, will not prevent AFRINIC from reviewing resources if

> complaints provide enough evidences. We just saw allegations/complaints

> in press which trigger reviews.

> The review policy proposal is intended to provide community approved ways

> of reviews for fairness, transparency. Lack of community approved review

> policy may have led to media complaint induced review.

>

> Regards

>

> --

> Arnaud

>

> Le dim. 8 d?c. 2019 ? 18:50, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> a ?crit :

>

> >

> >

> > policy or not will not prevent afrinic from reviewing resources if

> > complaints provide enough evidences. We just saw

> allegations/complaints

> > in press which trigger reviews.

> >

> > The review policy proposal is intended to provide community approved ways

> > of reviews for fairness, transparency. Lack of community approved review

> > policy may have led to media complaint induced reviewOn Dec 6, 2019, at

> > 07:46 , Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Ronald,

> >

> > So I read where this comment below was attributed to you.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > *>?Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our

> > reasonable> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS

> > database. Exactly> such unredacted database dumps *are* provided by all

> of

> > the four other> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and

> > journalists upon> request. When we submitted repeated requests for

> exactly

> > such unredacted> WHOIS database dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our

> > requests were rejected> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any

> > community-approved policy> was cited as the basis for the denial.?*

> > While not taking brief for AFRINIC or any of its staff, I feel you should

> > know that AFRINIC?s operation is also being governed by Mauritius data

> > protection law.

> > Mauritius regulates data protection under the Data Protection Act 2017

> > (DPA 2017 or Act), proclaimed through Proclamation No. 3 of 2018,

> effective

> > January 15, 2018. The Act repeals and replaces the Data Protection Act

> > 2004, so as to align with the European Union General Data Protection

> > Regulation 2016/679 (GDPR).

> >

> > Even if you are not familiar with Mauritius law, the EU GDPR which is

> more

> > popular should tell you the implication of revealing a WHOIS database to

> a

> > non-state prosecutorial actor like yourself who does not have a court

> > warrant to see the redacted sections you seek. Please correct me if I?m

> > wrong in my legal analysis of your request.

> >

> >

> > Whois is data that is published generally, so your comments here about

> DPR

> > don?t really apply.

> >

> > Such WHOIS dumps are available from RIPE, so I don?t think it is a GDPR

> > issue at all.

> >

> > Perhaps, isn?t it time for the community to revisit the Internet Number

> > Resources review policy

> > <https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal> which was not

> > on the docket for policy at this just-concluded meeting?

> > https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal

> >

> >

> > No? The resource review policy would do absolutely nothing to help here.

> >

> > We might be doing something right this time if that policy will allow for

> > a diligent review of resources including the legacy ones.

> >

> >

> > That policy does not provide for any review that AfriNIC cannot currently

> > do. All it does is provide a vector for a unique form of Denial Of

> Service

> > attack against larger organizations in the form of a complaint-induced

> > resource review.

> >

> > Let us please not conflate this issue with an utterly and completely

> > unrelated policy effort aimed at weaponizing AfriNIC to allow one subset

> of

> > the membership to attack another.

> >

> > Owen

> >

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Caleb Ogundele

> >

> >

> >

> > On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 12:17 PM <community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>

> > wrote:

> >

> >> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to

> >> community-discuss at afrinic.net

> >>

> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

> >> community-discuss-request at afrinic.net

> >>

> >> You can reach the person managing the list at

> >> community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net

> >>

> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific

> >> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."

> >>

> >>

> >> Today's Topics:

> >>

> >> 1. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)

> >> 2. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mike Silber)

> >> 3. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Elkins)

> >> 4. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Andrew Alston)

> >> 5. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)

> >> 6. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)

> >> 7. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)

> >> 8. [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC (Sylvain Baya)

> >> 9. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Isabel Odida)

> >> 10. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)

> >> 11. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)

> >> 12. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)

> >> 13. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)

> >> 14. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)

> >> 15. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)

> >> 16. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)

> >> 17. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)

> >> 18. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)

> >> 19. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)

> >>

> >>

> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 1

> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:27:42 +0200

> >> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>

> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16 at seacom.mu>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

> >>

> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

> >>

> >> Mark.

> >>

> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

> >> >

> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how

> >> > to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

> >> >

> >> > Thanks.

> >> >

> >> > Sunday.

> >> >

> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

> >> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

> following

> >> >> news story.

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >>

> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

> >> >>

> >> >> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the moment,

> >> >> I only

> >> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

> >> >> Vermeulen

> >> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

> >> >> ? ? Regards,

> >> >> rfg

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >> _______________________________________________

> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >>

> >>

> >> -------------- next part --------------

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> >> >

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 2

> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:46:15 +0200

> >> From: Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com>

> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3 at gmail.com>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> >>

> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to

> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

> >>

> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

> and

> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

> >>

> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space

> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and

> then

> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current

> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those

> processes

> >> may not have the desired outcome.

> >>

> >> Mike

> >>

> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.

> >> >

> >> > Mark.

> >> >

> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

> >> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

> >> >>

> >> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how

> >> to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

> >> >>

> >> >> Thanks.

> >> >>

> >> >> Sunday.

> >> >>

> >> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

> >> >>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

> >> following

> >> >>> news story.

> >> >>>

> >> >>>

> >>

> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

> >> <

> >>

> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

> >

> >>

> >> >>> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment,

> >> I only

> >> >>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

> >> Vermeulen

> >> >>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

> >> >>> Regards,

> >> >>> rfg

> >> >>>

> >> >>>

> >> >>> _______________________________________________

> >> >>> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >

> >> >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>

> >> >>>

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >>

> >> -------------- next part --------------

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> >> >

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 3

> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:59:57 +0200

> >> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>

> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f at posix.co.za>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

> >>

> >> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to

> >> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting

> >> of non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.

> >>

> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:

> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears

> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

> >> >

> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

> >> >

> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been

> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of

> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving

> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.

> >> >

> >> > Mike

> >> >

> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu

> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:

> >> >>

> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

> >> >>

> >> >> Mark.

> >> >>

> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

> >> >>>

> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see

> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

> >> >>>

> >> >>> Thanks.

> >> >>>

> >> >>> Sunday.

> >> >>>

> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

> >> >>>> following

> >> >>>> news story.

> >> >>>>

> >> >>>>

> >>

> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

> >> >>>>

> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the

> >> >>>> moment, I only

> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

> >> >>>> Vermeulen

> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,

> >> >>>> rfg

> >> >>>>

> >> >>>>

> >> >>>> _______________________________________________

> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >>>>

> >> >>

> >> >> _______________________________________________

> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> --

> >>

> >> Mark James ELKINS? -? Posix Systems - (South) Africa

> >> mje at posix.co.za???? <http://mje@posix.co.za/????>?? Tel: +27.826010496

> <

> >> tel:+27826010496 <+27826010496>>

> >> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za

> >>

> >> Posix SystemsVCARD for MJ Elkins

> >>

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> >>

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> >> >

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 4

> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:10:48 +0000

> >> From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>

> >> To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>,

> >> "community-discuss at afrinic.net" <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID:

> >> <

> >>

> DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0 at DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com

> >> >

> >>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

> >>

> >> I would be very curious to hear from a legal perspective what - if any -

> >> legal liability AfriNIC has in a situation like this.

> >>

> >> The fact is - space has value - and if space is stolen - used for spam

> or

> >> whatever else - and the reputation of said space is damaged - it?s value

> >> decreases. Now I fully realize that space can be hijacked - and at that

> >> point potentially the hijackers may hold the liability. However - when

> the

> >> space seems to have been stolen and sold off by a staff member of the

> >> organization that is meant in effect to the curator of the space - I

> >> question if there is not a liability issue at play if it can be proven

> that

> >> due care was not taken to safe guard against the actions taken.

> >>

> >> I?m no lawyer though so I would really be interested to know the legal

> >> perspective - can an rir be held liable to the actions of its staff if

> it

> >> did not adequately protect against the actions taken.

> >>

> >> Andrew

> >>

> >> Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

> >> ________________________________

> >> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>

> >> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 3:59:57 PM

> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >>

> >>

> >> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to

> >> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case

> (looting of

> >> non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.

> >>

> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:

> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to

> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

> >>

> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

> and

> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

> >>

> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space

> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and

> then

> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current

> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those

> processes

> >> may not have the desired outcome.

> >>

> >> Mike

> >>

> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu<mailto:

> >> mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:

> >>

> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

> >>

> >> Mark.

> >>

> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

> >>

> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to

> >> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

> >>

> >> Thanks.

> >>

> >> Sunday.

> >>

> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following

> >> news story.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

> >> <

> >>

> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

> >> >

> >> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I

> >> only

> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

> Vermeulen

> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

> >> Regards,

> >> rfg

> >>

> >>

> >> _______________________________________________

> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>

> >>

> >>

> >> _______________________________________________

> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> _______________________________________________

> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>

> >>

> >>

> >> --

> >>

> >> Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa

> >> mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za> Tel: +27.826010496<

> >> tel:+27826010496 <+27826010496>>

> >> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za<

> >> https://ftth.posix.co.za>

> >>

> >> [Posix Systems][VCARD for MJ Elkins]

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> >> >

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 5

> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:11:04 +0200

> >> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>

> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17 at seacom.mu>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

> >>

> >> I don't disagree with that either.

> >>

> >> I am certain AFRINIC are working on this, and I know there will be no

> >> shortage of queries about this from the field, much to our

> >> already-clogged e-mail boxes. I don't want to do the jobs of others; no

> >> one is doing mine for me.

> >>

> >> My preferred current focus - your last paragraph, below.

> >>

> >> Mark.

> >>

> >> On 5/Dec/19 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:

> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears

> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

> >> >

> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

> >> >

> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been

> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of

> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving

> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.?

> >> >

> >> > Mike

> >> >

> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu

> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:

> >> >>

> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

> >> >>

> >> >> Mark.

> >> >>

> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

> >> >>>

> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see

> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

> >> >>>

> >> >>> Thanks.

> >> >>>

> >> >>> Sunday.

> >> >>>

> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

> >> >>>> following

> >> >>>> news story.

> >> >>>>

> >> >>>>

> >>

> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

> >> >>>>

> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the

> >> >>>> moment, I only

> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

> >> >>>> Vermeulen

> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,

> >> >>>> rfg

> >> >>>>

> >> >>>>

> >> >>>> _______________________________________________

> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >>>>

> >> >>

> >> >> _______________________________________________

> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >>

> >> -------------- next part --------------

> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

> >> URL: <

> >>

> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/c8c491fa/attachment-0001.html

> >> >

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 6

> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:54:21 +0100

> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>

> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"

> >>

> >> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest

> >> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy

> >> space.

> >>

> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal

> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

> >> done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand

> >> accountable for their deeds.

> >>

> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7

> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover

> >> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active

> >> use, why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for

> >> the common good?

> >>

> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal

> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by

> now.

> >>

> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf

> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,

> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should

> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are

> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our

> >> time and intellect.

> >>

> >> Sunday.

> >>

> >> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:

> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears

> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

> >> >

> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

> >> >

> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been

> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of

> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving

> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.

> >> >

> >> > Mike

> >> >

> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu

> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:

> >> >>

> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

> >> >>

> >> >> Mark.

> >> >>

> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

> >> >>>

> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see

> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

> >> >>>

> >> >>> Thanks.

> >> >>>

> >> >>> Sunday.

> >> >>>

> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

> >> >>>> following

> >> >>>> news story.

> >> >>>>

> >> >>>>

> >>

> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

> >> >>>>

> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the

> >> >>>> moment, I only

> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

> >> >>>> Vermeulen

> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,

> >> >>>> rfg

> >> >>>>

> >> >>>>

> >> >>>> _______________________________________________

> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >>>>

> >> >>

> >> >> _______________________________________________

> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >>

> >> --

> >> --------------------------------------------------

> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan

> >> Managing Director

> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com

> >> ---------------------------------------------------

> >>

> >> -------------- next part --------------

> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

> >> URL: <

> >>

> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/118317f5/attachment-0001.html

> >> >

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 7

> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:15:59 +0200

> >> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>

> >> To: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>

> >> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID:

> >> <CAG1eoi3w-F2Ui-BfiKmBqYJ=

> >> srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw at mail.gmail.com>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

> >>

> >> I have to agree with this. As shocking and disappointing as the

> >> revelations

> >> might be, this makes the most sense to me.

> >>

> >> Omo

> >>

> >> On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, 20:56 Sunday Folayan, <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

> >>

> >> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway

> suggest

> >> > that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on

> legacy

> >> > space.

> >> >

> >> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal

> >> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

> >> done.

> >> > I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

> >> established,

> >> > the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for

> >> > their deeds.

> >> >

> >> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

> >> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of

> 7

> >> > years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to

> discover

> >> > the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active

> >> use,

> >> > why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for

> the

> >> > common good?

> >> >

> >> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their

> legal

> >> > department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by

> >> now.

> >> >

> >> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf

> >> of

> >> > the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,

> with

> >> > the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather

> >> > apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for

> >> > developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and

> >> > intellect.

> >> > Sunday.

> >> >

> >> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears

> to

> >> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

> >> >

> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

> >> and

> >> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

> >> >

> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

> space

> >> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and

> >> then

> >> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current

> >> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those

> >> processes

> >> > may not have the desired outcome.

> >> >

> >> > Mike

> >> >

> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.

> >> >

> >> > Mark.

> >> >

> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

> >> >

> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how

> to

> >> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

> >> >

> >> > Thanks.

> >> >

> >> > Sunday.

> >> >

> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

> >> >

> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

> following

> >> > news story.

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >>

> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

> >> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I

> >> > only

> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

> >> Vermeulen

> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

> >> > Regards,

> >> > rfg

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://

> >> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >> > --

> >> > --------------------------------------------------

> >> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan

> >> > Managing Director

> >> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

> >> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

> >> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

> >> > Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com

> >> > ---------------------------------------------------

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >> -------------- next part --------------

> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

> >> URL: <

> >>

> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/582fac38/attachment-0001.html

> >> >

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 8

> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:28:06 +0100

> >> From: Sylvain Baya <abscoco at gmail.com>

> >> To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>,

> >> "community-discuss at afrinic.net" <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: [Community-Discuss] [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID:

> >> <

> >> CAJjTEvE+sHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS+AwyF6Kg at mail.gmail.com>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

> >>

> >> Hi all,

> >>

> >> Le jeudi 5 d?cembre 2019, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za> a ?crit :

> >>

> >> > Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to

> >> > manipulate the non-legacy space -

> >> >

> >>

> >> Dear Mark,

> >> ...i agree !

> >>

> >> yet it happened. In this case (looting of non-legacy space), the RSA has

> >> > meant nothing.

> >> >

> >>

> >> As you say, i take you on words ; then if the RSA (Registration Service

> >> Agreement) could

> >> easily be bypassed, how to deal with our 'emerged' problem ?

> >>

> >> ...perhaps time to seriously reconsider the long life DPP (Draft Policy

> >> Proposal) [1] ?

> >> __

> >> [1]: <https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp>

> >>

> >> Shalom,

> >> --sb.

> >>

> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears

> to

> >> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

> >> >

> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

> >> and

> >> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

> >> >

> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

> space

> >> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and

> >> then

> >> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current

> >> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those

> >> processes

> >> > may not have the desired outcome.

> >> >

> >> > Mike

> >> >

> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.

> >> >

> >> > Mark.

> >> >

> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

> >> >

> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how

> to

> >> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

> >> >

> >> > Thanks.

> >> >

> >> > Sunday.

> >> >

> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

> >> >

> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

> following

> >> > news story.

> >> >

> >> > https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-

> >> >

> >>

> resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

> >> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I

> >> > only

> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

> >> Vermeulen

> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

> >> > Regards,

> >> > rfg

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://

> >> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >> > --

> >> >

> >> > Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa

> >> > mje at posix.co.za Tel: +27.826010496 <+27826010496>

> >> > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za

> >> >

> >> > [image: Posix Systems][image: VCARD for MJ Elkins]

> >> >

> >>

> >>

> >> --

> >>

> >> --

> >> Best Regards !

> >> baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] | <https://www.cmnog.cm> | <

> >> https://survey.cmnog.cm>

> >> Subscribe to Mailing List : <

> >> https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/>

> >> __

> >> #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|?#?Romains15?:33?*Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec

> >> vous tous! ?#?Amen?!*?

> >> ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement?

> >> ?*Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me

> soupire

> >> apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!*? (#Psaumes42:2)

> >> -------------- next part --------------

> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

> >> URL: <

> >>

> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/63b5ef24/attachment-0001.html

> >> >

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 9

> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:43:48 +0100

> >> From: Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com>

> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

> >> Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

> >>

> >> I know what sparked this story. Some people have no chill. How

> convenient

> >> following the last meeting in June. Ok, and then what? What have you

> >> benefited?

> >>

> >> Sent from my iPhone

> >>

> >> > On 4 Dec 2019, at 18:23, Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

> >> wrote:

> >> >

> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

> following

> >> > news story.

> >> >

> >> >

> >>

> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

> >> >

> >> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I

> >> only

> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

> >> Vermeulen

> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > Regards,

> >> > rfg

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 10

> >> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:44:58 -0800

> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <18818.1575585898 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> >>

> >> In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,

> >> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

> >>

> >> >The community has been informed that there is already some internal

> >> >investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

> >> >done.

> >>

> >> Mr. Folayan,

> >>

> >> These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,

> >> 2019, a full three months ago. Since that time there has not been a

> >> single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,

> >> or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague

> assurances

> >> that these matters are being looked into.

> >>

> >> Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns

> >> about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full

> >> three years ago.

> >>

> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html

> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html

> >>

> >> I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again

> >> repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,

> >> albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention

> >> paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any

> >> concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.

> >>

> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html

> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html

> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html

> >>

> >> At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly

> >> in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive

> >> issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to

> >> entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it

> >> were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the

> >> courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/>.

> >> Neither the board nor

> >> the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any

> >> clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will

> >> either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders

> >> and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive

> >> any of the findings that it may reach. And yet despite having had

> >> either three full months or three full years to look into these

> >> matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and

> >> despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming

> >> from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.

> >>

> >> This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the

> >> community's patience to come to an end? Does the community have any

> >> assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another

> >> three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield

> >> anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the

> >> current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions

> >> of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?

> >>

> >> On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at

> long

> >> last be forthcoming?

> >>

> >> >I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

> >> >established, the law should take its course and people should stand

> >> >accountable for their deeds.

> >>

> >> This assertion on your part begs four further questions:

> >>

> >> 1) Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented

> >> in the MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/> article, the

> >> majority of which were drawn from

> >> publicly available sources including open government records, what more

> >> will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and

> intentions

> >> are established"? What parts of the abundant documentary evidence

> already

> >> presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?

> >>

> >> 2) If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/

> >

> >> article, it can be persuasively

> >> demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in

> fact

> >> purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC

> >> itself is one of the aggrieved parties? And if so, would you hope and

> >> expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and

> >> all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?

> >>

> >> 3) Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and

> >> endemic

> >> within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do

> you

> >> have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all

> >> likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?

> >>

> >> 4) What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-

> >> documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from

> >> AFRINIC's own free pool? Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed

> by

> >> AFRINIC? Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever

> they

> >> may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty

> >> on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?

> >>

> >> >I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

> >> >organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7

> >> >years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to

> discover

> >> >the manipulations.

> >>

> >> On this point, you and I are in complete agreement. "The system", such

> >> as it is, is quite self-evidently broken. But this raises the further

> >> question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at

> >> AFRINIC,

> >> while all of this was going on. Is it even plausible that a single bad

> >> actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars

> >> worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a

> >> several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC

> >> staff even noticed any of this?

> >>

> >> >For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal

> >> >department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by

> >> now.

> >>

> >> See above. Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with

> >> respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself. No other

> >> single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much

> >> valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself. And yet we have, as yet, no

> >> clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff

> >> member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone

> >> that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated

> >> by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.

> >>

> >> If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.

> >>

> >> >While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf

> >> >of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,

> >> >with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should

> >> >rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are

> >> >available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of

> our

> >> >time and intellect.

> >>

> >> See above. With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we

> >> may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"? I

> have

> >> so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any

> >> document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of

> >> AFRINIC. In fact, quite the opposite. I see that a purported three

> >> month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly

> >> reporting on so far. I see an attempt to shift the blame for this

> >> colossal

> >> and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders

> >> while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of

> >> AFRINIC itself. I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action

> >> will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a

> >> backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general

> >> disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific

> >> national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.

> >>

> >> For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,

> >> Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.

> >> The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and

> >> to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or

> >> placed

> >> under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to

> all.

> >> AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding

> >> responsibility.

> >>

> >> I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively

> >> remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing

> >> after-effects. I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now

> >> evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the

> carpet

> >> will no longer be considered a vialble option.

> >>

> >>

> >> Regards,

> >> rfg

> >>

> >>

> >> P.S. I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower"

> in

> >> this context Mr. Folayan. That term is usually used in reference to

> some

> >> insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed

> >> first-hand some malfeasance. Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this

> >> description. Rather, we have labored as outsiders only. We have not

> >> been privy to any "inside" information. Quite the opposite in fact. We

> >> have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests

> >> for information by AFRINIC staff.

> >>

> >> Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our

> >> reasonable

> >> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.

> >> Exactly

> >> such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other

> >> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists

> upon

> >> request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such

> unredacted

> >> WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were

> rejected

> >> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved

> policy

> >> was cited as the basis for the denial.

> >>

> >> At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate explanation

> >> for

> >> this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be

> >> granted at long last. Certain portions of my research cannot be

> completed

> >> without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis

> >> for

> >> the rejection of such requests.

> >>

> >>

> >> P.P.S. As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the

> >> numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place. I feel

> >> compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been

> >> double-victimized in at least two specific instances.

> >>

> >> First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4

> >> blocks "liberated" from its free pool. Secondarily and even more

> >> insultingly

> >> however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also

> >> arranged

> >> to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be

> associated

> >> with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other

> >> legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4

> >> allocations.

> >>

> >> I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15

> block,

> >> registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the

> >> non-legacy

> >> 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.

> >> These

> >> blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six

> million

> >> U.S. dollars.

> >>

> >> As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD

> >> mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as

> MEMBER-ONLY,

> >> as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any

> >> actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to

> >> AFRINIC.

> >>

> >> I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this

> >> regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it

> does

> >> appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-

> >> stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years

> >> on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be

> due

> >> on these IPv4 assignments.

> >>

> >> Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further

> >> clarification

> >> with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been

> >> collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for

> >> any year since their allocation to and association with the

> organizations

> >> noted.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 11

> >> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 17:24:26 -0800

> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <19435.1575595466 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> >>

> >> In message <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>,

> >> Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com> wrote:

> >>

> >> >I know what sparked this story.

> >>

> >> If you have something to say, then you have our attention and the floor.

> >> Please proceed.

> >>

> >>

> >> Regards,

> >> rfg

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 12

> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 10:04:06 +0100

> >> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>

> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

> >>

> >> Hi Sunday, all,

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let

> me

> >> tell why.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My first

> >> AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly after,

> >> during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could contribute to

> >> the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and joining Ernest in

> his

> >> trips to do the Registration Services training so I do IPv6 trainings.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos, I

> >> was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the Madrid

> >> Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from Sunday, I could

> >> resolve that on the next day and flight again to do the training.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,

> >> and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been

> doing

> >> those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been able to

> take

> >> advantage of that.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as

> well

> >> as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much together,

> >> you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost 15 years.

> Of

> >> course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a hidden face.

> As

> >> humans, we all have positive and negative things. But I?m really

> shocked, I

> >> still resist to believe it.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the position

> >> of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use

> >> your own name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe

> >> someone,? may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to

> >> appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly and

> >> non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean he is

> >> still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or something

> >> similar.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents. If

> >> you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,

> and

> >> may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and

> >> involvement an all this.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal interest.

> >> My only interest is to know the *real true* and I?m sure everybody

> agrees

> >> on that.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so no

> >> doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very

> >> thankful for that.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Regards,

> >>

> >> Jordi

> >>

> >> @jordipalet

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com> escribi?:

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest

> >> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy

> >> space.

> >>

> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal

> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

> done.

> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

> established,

> >> the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for

> >> their deeds.

> >>

> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7

> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover

> >> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active

> use,

> >> why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the

> >> common good?

> >>

> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal

> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by

> now.

> >>

> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf

> of

> >> the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with

> >> the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather

> >> apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for

> >> developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and

> >> intellect.

> >>

> >> Sunday.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:

> >>

> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to

> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

> and

> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space

> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and

> then

> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current

> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those

> processes

> >> may not have the desired outcome.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Mike

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

> >>

> >> Mark.

> >>

> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

> >>

> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

> >>

> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to

> >> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

> >>

> >> Thanks.

> >>

> >> Sunday.

> >>

> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

> >>

> >>

> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following

> >> news story.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

> >> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I

> >> only

> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

> Vermeulen

> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

> >> Regards,

> >> rfg

> >>

> >>

> >> _______________________________________________

> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> _______________________________________________

> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> _______________________________________________

> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> --

> >> --------------------------------------------------

> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan

> >> Managing Director

> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com

> >> ---------------------------------------------------

> >> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss

> mailing

> >> list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> **********************************************

> >> IPv4 is over

> >> Are you ready for the new Internet ?

> >> http://www.theipv6company.com

> >> The IPv6 Company

> >>

> >> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or

> >> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of

> >> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized

> >> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this

> >> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly

> >> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the

> >> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution

> or

> >> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including

> >> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal

> >> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this

> >> communication and delete it.

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> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/e007b6dd/attachment-0001.html

> >> >

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 13

> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:16:03 +0100

> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>

> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>, General Discussions

> >> of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

> >>

> >> Dear Mr Guilmette,

> >>

> >> Regrettably, I do not monitor the press, but selected channels such as

> >> this list. It seems I got your attention, or you got my attention, or we

> >> both got each other's attention. Let us therefore maximize the

> possession.

> >>

> >> Important and interesting questions, that you have raised in this email.

> >> Let us put some punch in it. Kindly change the TO: field to

> >> ceo at afrinic.net, and cc the Community just to make sure it is not

> >> ignored, then resend it. I am sure the CEO will answer all the questions

> >> you here posed to me. Pity he has to start his tenure with these hard

> >> nuts and curveballs, but he is capable. He speaks for the Company, not

> me.

> >>

> >> I am equally sure that the Community appreciates the great work done,

> >> and no one supports the exposed fraud. You are a stakeholder, and not

> >> some casual bystander so please note this. What you conveniently

> >> ignored, is that the #1 accused company insider is the eye of the

> >> company on the policy lists, where you raised the issues.

> >>

> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should

> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more

> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.

> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.

> >>

> >> My use of the term "Whistleblowers" is appropriate, as I looked at one

> >> of your reference links, and indeed, someone confirmed to you privately

> >> that your hunch is right. If you do not claim the honour, they should,

> >> because you rightly built on their work!

> >>

> >> Great job you are doing.

> >>

> >> Have a great day.

> >>

> >> Sunday.

> >>

> >> On 05/12/2019 23:44, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

> >> > In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,

> >> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

> >> >

> >> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal

> >> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

> >> >> done.

> >> > Mr. Folayan,

> >> >

> >> > These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,

> >> > 2019, a full three months ago. Since that time there has not been a

> >> > single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,

> >> > or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague

> >> assurances

> >> > that these matters are being looked into.

> >> >

> >> > Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns

> >> > about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full

> >> > three years ago.

> >> >

> >> >

> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html

> >> >

> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html

> >> >

> >> > I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again

> >> > repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,

> >> > albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention

> >> > paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any

> >> > concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.

> >> >

> >> >

> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html

> >> >

> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html

> >> >

> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html

> >> >

> >> > At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly

> >> > in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive

> >> > issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to

> >> > entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it

> >> > were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the

> >> > courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/

> >.

> >> Neither the board nor

> >> > the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any

> >> > clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will

> >> > either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders

> >> > and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive

> >> > any of the findings that it may reach. And yet despite having had

> >> > either three full months or three full years to look into these

> >> > matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and

> >> > despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming

> >> > from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel

> patience.

> >> >

> >> > This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the

> >> > community's patience to come to an end? Does the community have any

> >> > assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another

> >> > three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield

> >> > anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the

> >> > current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions

> >> > of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?

> >> >

> >> > On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at

> >> long

> >> > last be forthcoming?

> >> >

> >> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

> >> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand

> >> >> accountable for their deeds.

> >> > This assertion on your part begs four further questions:

> >> >

> >> > 1) Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been

> presented

> >> > in the MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/> article, the

> >> majority of which were drawn from

> >> > publicly available sources including open government records, what

> more

> >> > will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and

> >> intentions

> >> > are established"? What parts of the abundant documentary evidence

> >> already

> >> > presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?

> >> >

> >> > 2) If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za

> >> <http://mybroadband.co.za/> article, it can be persuasively

> >> > demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in

> >> fact

> >> > purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that

> AFRINIC

> >> > itself is one of the aggrieved parties? And if so, would you hope and

> >> > expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and

> >> > all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?

> >> >

> >> > 3) Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and

> >> endemic

> >> > within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do

> >> you

> >> > have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all

> >> > likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?

> >> >

> >> > 4) What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-

> >> > documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks

> from

> >> > AFRINIC's own free pool? Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed

> >> by

> >> > AFRINIC? Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever

> >> they

> >> > may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten

> booty

> >> > on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?

> >> >

> >> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

> >> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards

> of 7

> >> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to

> >> discover

> >> >> the manipulations.

> >> > On this point, you and I are in complete agreement. "The system",

> such

> >> > as it is, is quite self-evidently broken. But this raises the further

> >> > question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at

> >> AFRINIC,

> >> > while all of this was going on. Is it even plausible that a single

> bad

> >> > actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars

> >> > worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a

> >> > several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC

> >> > staff even noticed any of this?

> >> >

> >> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their

> legal

> >> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by

> >> now.

> >> > See above. Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced

> with

> >> > respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself. No other

> >> > single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much

> >> > valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself. And yet we have, as yet, no

> >> > clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any

> staff

> >> > member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone

> >> > that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated

> >> > by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.

> >> >

> >> > If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new

> dictionary.

> >> >

> >> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on

> behalf

> >> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system

> here,

> >> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should

> >> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are

> >> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of

> >> our

> >> >> time and intellect.

> >> > See above. With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we

> >> > may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"? I

> >> have

> >> > so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any

> >> > document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member

> of

> >> > AFRINIC. In fact, quite the opposite. I see that a purported three

> >> > month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth

> publicly

> >> > reporting on so far. I see an attempt to shift the blame for this

> >> colossal

> >> > and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders

> >> > while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of

> >> > AFRINIC itself. I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action

> >> > will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a

> >> > backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a

> general

> >> > disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific

> >> > national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.

> >> >

> >> > For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances

> misplaced,

> >> > Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.

> >> > The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and

> >> > to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or

> >> placed

> >> > under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to

> >> all.

> >> > AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding

> >> responsibility.

> >> >

> >> > I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and

> effectively

> >> > remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still

> ongoing

> >> > after-effects. I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now

> >> > evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the

> >> carpet

> >> > will no longer be considered a vialble option.

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > Regards,

> >> > rfg

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > P.S. I must strenuously object to your use of the word

> "whistleblower"

> >> in

> >> > this context Mr. Folayan. That term is usually used in reference to

> >> some

> >> > insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed

> >> > first-hand some malfeasance. Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this

> >> > description. Rather, we have labored as outsiders only. We have not

> >> > been privy to any "inside" information. Quite the opposite in fact.

> We

> >> > have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable

> requests

> >> > for information by AFRINIC staff.

> >> >

> >> > Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our

> >> reasonable

> >> > requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.

> >> Exactly

> >> > such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four

> other

> >> > Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists

> >> upon

> >> > request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such

> >> unredacted

> >> > WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were

> >> rejected

> >> > out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved

> >> policy

> >> > was cited as the basis for the denial.

> >> >

> >> > At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate

> >> explanation for

> >> > this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to

> be

> >> > granted at long last. Certain portions of my research cannot be

> >> completed

> >> > without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved

> basis

> >> for

> >> > the rejection of such requests.

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > P.P.S. As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the

> >> > numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place. I feel

> >> > compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively

> been

> >> > double-victimized in at least two specific instances.

> >> >

> >> > First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large

> IPv4

> >> > blocks "liberated" from its free pool. Secondarily and even more

> >> insultingly

> >> > however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also

> >> arranged

> >> > to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be

> >> associated

> >> > with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other

> >> > legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired

> IPv4

> >> > allocations.

> >> >

> >> > I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15

> >> block,

> >> > registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the

> >> non-legacy

> >> > 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.

> >> These

> >> > blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six

> >> million

> >> > U.S. dollars.

> >> >

> >> > As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD

> >> > mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as

> >> MEMBER-ONLY,

> >> > as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold

> any

> >> > actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees

> to

> >> > AFRINIC.

> >> >

> >> > I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in

> this

> >> > regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it

> >> does

> >> > appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have

> -both-

> >> > stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for

> years

> >> > on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be

> >> due

> >> > on these IPv4 assignments.

> >> >

> >> > Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further

> >> clarification

> >> > with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have

> been

> >> > collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned,

> for

> >> > any year since their allocation to and association with the

> >> organizations

> >> > noted.

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >>

> >> --

> >> --------------------------------------------------

> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan

> >> Managing Director

> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com

> >> ---------------------------------------------------

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 14

> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:07:01 -0800

> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <21084.1575626821 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> >>

> >> Mr. Folayan,

> >>

> >> Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful

> response.

> >>

> >> At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond

> >> what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.

> >>

> >>

> >> In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,

> >> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

> >>

> >> >I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should

> >> >conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more

> >> >honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking

> stakeholder.

> >> >It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.

> >>

> >> Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.

> >>

> >> Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see

> >> the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC. That is quite certainly not a

> >> goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as

> >> you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder

> >> should wish for. AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global

> >> Internet governance. I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.

> >> No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a

> >> few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second. And to use an

> >> even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing

> >> smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than

> >> I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.

> >>

> >> If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being

> >> formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested

> >> that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already

> >> sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being

> >> preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere. Now I may stand on the comfortable

> >> shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but

> >> I do not question the utility of the journey.

> >>

> >> The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters

> >> of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose. Time will

> >> tell if that is an accurate assesment.

> >>

> >>

> >> Regards,

> >> rfg

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 15

> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:14:31 +0100

> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>

> >> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>, General

> >> Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed at gmail.com>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

> >>

> >> Good points Jordi, and thanks for the throwback on the very many amazing

> >> sacrifices we all made, to grow the Internet in Africa.

> >>

> >> I will resist asking Ernest to defend himself here, We are not

> >> constituted as a competent jury, neither do we want to compromise the

> >> ongoing investigations.

> >>

> >> Questions are appropriate, so will be his own admissions or rebuttals,

> >> when the investigations are completed.

> >>

> >> I may be wrong, but that is my own expectations and position.

> >>

> >> Sunday.

> >>

> >> On 06/12/2019 10:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Hi Sunday, all,

> >> >

> >> > I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let

> >> > me tell why.

> >> >

> >> > I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My

> >> > first AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly

> >> > after, during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could

> >> > contribute to the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and

> >> > joining Ernest in his trips to do the Registration Services training

> >> > so I do IPv6 trainings.

> >> >

> >> > Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos,

> >> > I was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the

> >> > Madrid Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from

> >> > Sunday, I could resolve that on the next day and flight again to do

> >> > the training.

> >> >

> >> > My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,

> >> > and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been

> >> > doing those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been

> >> > able to take advantage of that.

> >> >

> >> > The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as

> >> > well as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much

> >> > together, you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost

> >> > 15 years. Of course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a

> >> > hidden face. As humans, we all have positive and negative things. But

> >> > I?m really shocked, I still resist to believe it.

> >> >

> >> > I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the

> >> > position of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think

> >> > you will use your own name for registering companies, or instead you

> >> > will bribe someone, may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your

> >> > family name to appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly

> >> > and non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean

> >> > he is still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or

> >> > something similar.

> >> >

> >> > Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents.

> >> > If you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be

> enough.

> >> >

> >> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,

> >> > and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and

> >> > involvement an all this.

> >> >

> >> > Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal

> >> > interest. My only interest is to know the **real true** and I?m sure

> >> > everybody agrees on that.

> >> >

> >> > Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so

> >> > no doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very

> >> > thankful for that.

> >> >

> >> > Regards,

> >> >

> >> > Jordi

> >> >

> >> > @jordipalet

> >> >

> >> > El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com

> >> > <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> escribi?:

> >> >

> >> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway

> >> > suggest that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only

> >> > on legacy space.

> >> >

> >> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal

> >> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

> >> > done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

> >> > established, the law should take its course and people should stand

> >> > accountable for their deeds.

> >> >

> >> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

> >> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of

> >> > 7 years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to

> >> > discover the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or

> >> > in active use, why would or should they not have been returned to the

> >> > Registry for the common good?

> >> >

> >> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their

> >> > legal department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with

> >> > gusto by now.

> >> >

> >> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf

> >> > of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,

> >> > with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should

> >> > rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are

> >> > available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of

> >> > our time and intellect.

> >> >

> >> > Sunday.

> >> >

> >> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there

> >> > appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy

> >> > space.

> >> >

> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the

> >> > problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space

> issue.

> >> >

> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been

> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of

> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then

> >> > moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired

> >> > outcome.

> >> >

> >> > Mike

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu

> >> > <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.

> >> >

> >> > Mark.

> >> >

> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically

> >> > ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet

> >> > in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces

> >> > under some form of RSA?

> >> >

> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let

> >> > us see how to help and empower the people doing useful

> >> > work for Africa.

> >> >

> >> > Thanks.

> >> >

> >> > Sunday.

> >> >

> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

> >> >

> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think

> >> > about the following

> >> > news story.

> >> >

> >> >

> >>

> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

> >> >

> >> > ? I will have more to say about this in due course.?

> >> > For the moment, I only

> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by

> >> > myself and Jan Vermeulen

> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably

> involved.

> >> > ? ? Regards,

> >> > rfg

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> >

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> >

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> >

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:

> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> >

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >> > --

> >> > --------------------------------------------------

> >> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan

> >> > Managing Director

> >> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

> >> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

> >> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

> >> > Email:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>,

> >> sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>

> >> > ---------------------------------------------------

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss

> >> > mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > **********************************************

> >> > IPv4 is over

> >> > Are you ready for the new Internet ?

> >> > http://www.theipv6company.com

> >> > The IPv6 Company

> >> >

> >> > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged

> >> > or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive

> >> > use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty

> >> > authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of

> >> > this information, even if partially, including attached files, is

> >> > strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you

> >> > are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,

> >> > distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if

> >> > partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be

> >> > considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original

> >> > sender to inform about this communication and delete it.

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >>

> >> --

> >> --------------------------------------------------

> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan

> >> Managing Director

> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com

> >> ---------------------------------------------------

> >>

> >> -------------- next part --------------

> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

> >> URL: <

> >>

> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/8c6c63d5/attachment-0001.html

> >> >

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 16

> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 12:17:52 +0200

> >> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>

> >> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>

> >> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> > On 6 Dec 2019, at 11:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <

> >> community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote:

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,

> >> and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and

> >> involvement an all this.

> >> >

> >>

> >>

> >> :-) Might as well setup a confession booth and provide absolution of

> >> souls. On a serious note, we need a proper investigation. Let?s wait

> to

> >> hear from the CEO

> >>

> >> Omo

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> -------------- next part --------------

> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

> >> URL: <

> >>

> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/4e0f75fc/attachment-0001.html

> >> >

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 17

> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:21:40 +0100

> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>

> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>, General Discussions

> >> of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10 at gmail.com>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

> >>

> >> Dear Mr Guilmette,

> >>

> >> On 06/12/2019 11:07, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

> >> > Mr. Folayan,

> >> >

> >> > Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful

> >> response.

> >> >

> >> > At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and

> beyond

> >> > what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,

> >> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

> >> >

> >> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we

> should

> >> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much

> more

> >> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking

> >> stakeholder.

> >> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.

> >> > Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.

> >> >

> >> > Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to

> see

> >> > the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC. That is quite certainly not a

> >> > goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as

> >> > you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder

> >> > should wish for. AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global

> >> > Internet governance. I cannot even envision things as being

> otherwise.

> >> > No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a

> >> > few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second. And to use an

> >> > even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing

> >> > smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more

> than

> >> > I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the

> plains.

> >> >

> >> > If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was

> being

> >> > formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested

> >> > that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already

> >> > sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it,

> being

> >> > preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere. Now I may stand on the comfortable

> >> > shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but

> >> > I do not question the utility of the journey.

> >> >

> >> > The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think,

> matters

> >> > of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose. Time will

> >> > tell if that is an accurate assesment.

> >>

> >>

> >> This is most assuring and comforting at the same time.

> >>

> >> If I have sounded off-key, please accept my sincere apologies, and thank

> >> you very much for the good job you have done for the community so far.

> >> History will never forget your role and progressive disposition at this

> >> point in time.

> >>

> >> When AfriNIC was being formed, the challenges of today, were not

> >> envisioned in the very many ways that they now present themselves.

> >> Africa has come a long way. Unfortunately, there are still many more

> >> oceans to cross, but we will all band together as a purposeful fleet.

> >> That is how we can all weather the storms that may come, but sure they

> >> will come.

> >>

> >> With kind Regards ...

> >>

> >> Sunday.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 18

> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:58:27 -0800

> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <21283.1575629907 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> >>

> >> In message <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>,

> >> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:

> >>

> >> >I also believe that he is a smart guy.

> >>

> >> I would not dispute that characterization in the slightest.

> >>

> >> >So, put yourself in the position of

> >> >a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use

> >> your o

> >> >wn name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe

> >> someone,=C2=A0

> >> > may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear

> in

> >> an

> >> >y documents? I feel this is really silly and non-understandable.

> >>

> >> And yet it seemed to work, for years on end, with no one raising so much

> >> as an eyebrow because nobody seriously investigated or seriously looked

> >> at all of the relevant corporate documents and WHOIS records and, in

> >> particular, the historical WHOIS records, including but not limited to

> >> these ones:

> >>

> >> ORG-AI2-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD

> >> ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB

> >> ORG-IA41-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP

> >> ORG-ZZ139-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW

> >> ORG-ZZ23-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N

> >>

> >> I have been chasing down miscreants on the Internet for more than 20

> years

> >> now. One of the lessons I have learned in that time is that none of

> them

> >> are ten feet tall, and the majority of them absolutely suck at OPSEC.

> It

> >> is almost as if some part of them is deluding their own brains into the

> >> false belief that what they are doing is not really wrong, in some

> >> sense, and that they are somehow actually entitled to the stuff they are

> >> stealing, and that thus, at some level, they don't actually need to hide

> >> what they are doing all that throughly, because just as White House

> Chief

> >> of Staff Mick Mulvaney did not long ago... much to the shock of

> >> everyone...

> >> if they are ever caught and confronted they assume that they will just

> say

> >> "Yea. So? We do that all of the time. Get over it!"

> >>

> >> >So maybe

> >> >somebody used him, which doesn=E2=80=99t mean he is still guilty

> >> =E2=80=9Cin

> >> >vigilando=E2=80=9D because he trusted anyone else, or something

> similar.

> >>

> >> It's a nice thought, and you are a generous person to allow this

> >> possibility

> >> Jordi. All I can say is that other information, not yet made public,

> >> appears to rule out the possibility that Mr. Byaruhanga was either an

> >> unwitting stooge or a convenient fall guy.

> >>

> >> >Do we believe in =E2=80=9Cpresumption of innocence=E2=80=9D? I do,

> >> despite

> >> >documents. If you don=E2=80=99t know the complete background, documents

> >> may

> >> >not be enough.

> >>

> >> I agree.

> >>

> >> That having been said, I hope that you will, as I have, spend some time

> >> carefully scrutinizing both the current and historical WHOIS records

> >> associated with the ORGanizations and the IPv4 blocks listed in the two

> >> tables in Jan's article. If you do that, I think that you will be, as

> >> I was, hard pressed to explain all of the quite glaring anomalies in

> >> any way that does not involve a great deal of very deliberate malfesance

> >> on somebody's part. Once you are convinced of that, then the question

> >> becomes: Who is responsible? And it is at that point that the various

> >> official governmental corporate registration records would seem to

> become

> >> very relevant.

> >>

> >> >So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,

> and

> >> >may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and

> >> involvement

> >> >an all this.

> >>

> >> I would like to echo that sentiment.

> >>

> >> Jan Vermeulen and myself have tried, repeatedly, and over some

> significant

> >> time now to reach him, both via voice, at a number of different phone

> >> numbers

> >> that we have identified as being associated with him, and also via

> email,

> >> at various of his known email addresses, and we have been utterly unable

> >> to

> >> do so. We both very much look forward to speaking with him and getting

> >> his

> >> side of the story, if he has one.

> >>

> >> That having been said, we cannot be blamed, I think, for reaching

> certain

> >> reasonable conclusions when Jan's industry sources informed him, less

> than

> >> a day after I had attempted to confront Ernest, via email, with the

> facts

> >> arrayed against him, that he had abruptly resigned his position at

> AFRINIC

> >> after 15 years on the job.

> >>

> >> His abrupt resignation was and remains his only apparent response to our

> >> inquiries.

> >>

> >>

> >> Regards,

> >> rfg

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Message: 19

> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 03:16:57 -0800

> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

> >> Message-ID: <21648.1575631017 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>

> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> >>

> >> In message <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>,

> >> Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> wrote:

> >>

> >> >On a serious note, we need a proper investigation. Let's

> >> >wait to hear from the CEO

> >>

> >> Have any of us been doing otherwise, for lo these past three months now?

> >>

> >> Have we been afforded any other choice in the matter?

> >>

> >> Can AFRINIC clean its own stables?

> >>

> >>

> >> Regards,

> >> rfg

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> Subject: Digest Footer

> >>

> >> _______________________________________________

> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >>

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>

> >> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1

> >> *************************************************

> >>

> >

> >

> > --

> > *Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb*

> > *muyiwacaleb at gmail.com <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>*

> > *234 - 8077377378*

> > *234 - 07030777969*

> > _______________________________________________

> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >

> >

> > _______________________________________________

> > Community-Discuss mailing list

> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

> >

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>

> ------------------------------

>

> Subject: Digest Footer

>

> _______________________________________________

> Community-Discuss mailing list

> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 551, Issue 1

> *************************************************

>

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