[Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1

Arnaud AMELINA amelnaud at gmail.com
Tue Dec 10 13:48:37 UTC 2019


+1 to Caleb as you say it, it's time to find consensus on review policy.

Regard

--
Arnaud

Le ven. 6 déc. 2019 à 15:48, Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>
a écrit :


> Dear Ronald,

>

> So I read where this comment below was attributed to you.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> *>“Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our

> reasonable> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS

> database. Exactly> such unredacted database dumps *are* provided by all of

> the four other> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and

> journalists upon> request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly

> such unredacted> WHOIS database dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our

> requests were rejected> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any

> community-approved policy> was cited as the basis for the denial.”*

> While not taking brief for AFRINIC or any of its staff, I feel you should

> know that AFRINIC’s operation is also being governed by Mauritius data

> protection law.

> Mauritius regulates data protection under the Data Protection Act 2017

> (DPA 2017 or Act), proclaimed through Proclamation No. 3 of 2018, effective

> January 15, 2018. The Act repeals and replaces the Data Protection Act

> 2004, so as to align with the European Union General Data Protection

> Regulation 2016/679 (GDPR).

>

> Even if you are not familiar with Mauritius law, the EU GDPR which is more

> popular should tell you the implication of revealing a WHOIS database to a

> non-state prosecutorial actor like yourself who does not have a court

> warrant to see the redacted sections you seek. Please correct me if I’m

> wrong in my legal analysis of your request.

>

> Perhaps, isn’t it time for the community to revisit the Internet Number

> Resources review policy

> <https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal> which was not

> on the docket for policy at this just-concluded meeting?

> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal

>

> We might be doing something right this time if that policy will allow for

> a diligent review of resources including the legacy ones.

>

> Regards

>

> Caleb Ogundele

>

>

>

> On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 12:17 PM <community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>

> wrote:

>

>> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to

>> community-discuss at afrinic.net

>>

>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

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>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific

>> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."

>>

>>

>> Today's Topics:

>>

>> 1. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)

>> 2. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mike Silber)

>> 3. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Elkins)

>> 4. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Andrew Alston)

>> 5. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)

>> 6. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)

>> 7. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)

>> 8. [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC (Sylvain Baya)

>> 9. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Isabel Odida)

>> 10. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)

>> 11. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)

>> 12. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)

>> 13. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)

>> 14. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)

>> 15. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)

>> 16. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)

>> 17. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)

>> 18. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)

>> 19. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)

>>

>>

>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 1

>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:27:42 +0200

>> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>

>> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net

>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> Message-ID: <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16 at seacom.mu>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>>

>> Completely agree with Sunday.

>>

>> Mark.

>>

>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

>> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>> >

>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how

>> > to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>> >

>> > Thanks.

>> >

>> > Sunday.

>> >

>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following

>> >> news story.

>> >>

>> >>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >>

>> >> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the moment,

>> >> I only

>> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> >> Vermeulen

>> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> >> ? ? Regards,

>> >> rfg

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >>

>>

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>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 2

>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:46:15 +0200

>> From: Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com>

>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> Message-ID: <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3 at gmail.com>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>>

>> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to

>> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

>>

>> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and

>> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

>>

>> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space

>> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then

>> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current

>> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes

>> may not have the desired outcome.

>>

>> Mike

>>

>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:

>> >

>> > Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >

>> > Mark.

>> >

>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>> >>

>> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how

>> to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>> >>

>> >> Thanks.

>> >>

>> >> Sunday.

>> >>

>> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

>> following

>> >>> news story.

>> >>>

>> >>>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> <

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>

>>

>> >>> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment,

>> I only

>> >>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> Vermeulen

>> >>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> >>> Regards,

>> >>> rfg

>> >>>

>> >>>

>> >>> _______________________________________________

>> >>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>

>> >>>

>> >

>> > _______________________________________________

>> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>>

>> -------------- next part --------------

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>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 3

>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:59:57 +0200

>> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>

>> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net

>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> Message-ID: <007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f at posix.co.za>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

>>

>> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to

>> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting

>> of non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.

>>

>> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:

>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears

>> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

>> >

>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

>> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

>> >

>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been

>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of

>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving

>> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.

>> >

>> > Mike

>> >

>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu

>> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:

>> >>

>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >>

>> >> Mark.

>> >>

>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

>> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>> >>>

>> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see

>> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>> >>>

>> >>> Thanks.

>> >>>

>> >>> Sunday.

>> >>>

>> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

>> >>>> following

>> >>>> news story.

>> >>>>

>> >>>>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >>>>

>> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the

>> >>>> moment, I only

>> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> >>>> Vermeulen

>> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> >>>> ? ? Regards,

>> >>>> rfg

>> >>>>

>> >>>>

>> >>>> _______________________________________________

>> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >>>>

>> >>

>> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >

>> >

>> > _______________________________________________

>> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> --

>>

>> Mark James ELKINS? -? Posix Systems - (South) Africa

>> mje at posix.co.za?????? Tel: +27.826010496 <tel:+27826010496>

>> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za

>>

>> Posix SystemsVCARD for MJ Elkins

>>

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>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 4

>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:10:48 +0000

>> From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>

>> To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>,

>> "community-discuss at afrinic.net" <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> Message-ID:

>> <

>> DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0 at DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com

>> >

>>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

>>

>> I would be very curious to hear from a legal perspective what - if any -

>> legal liability AfriNIC has in a situation like this.

>>

>> The fact is - space has value - and if space is stolen - used for spam or

>> whatever else - and the reputation of said space is damaged - it?s value

>> decreases. Now I fully realize that space can be hijacked - and at that

>> point potentially the hijackers may hold the liability. However - when the

>> space seems to have been stolen and sold off by a staff member of the

>> organization that is meant in effect to the curator of the space - I

>> question if there is not a liability issue at play if it can be proven that

>> due care was not taken to safe guard against the actions taken.

>>

>> I?m no lawyer though so I would really be interested to know the legal

>> perspective - can an rir be held liable to the actions of its staff if it

>> did not adequately protect against the actions taken.

>>

>> Andrew

>>

>> Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

>> ________________________________

>> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>

>> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 3:59:57 PM

>> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>>

>>

>> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to

>> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting of

>> non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.

>>

>> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:

>> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to

>> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

>>

>> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and

>> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

>>

>> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space

>> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then

>> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current

>> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes

>> may not have the desired outcome.

>>

>> Mike

>>

>> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu<mailto:

>> mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:

>>

>> Completely agree with Sunday.

>>

>> Mark.

>>

>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>>

>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to

>> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>>

>> Thanks.

>>

>> Sunday.

>>

>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following

>> news story.

>>

>>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> <

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >

>> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I

>> only

>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen

>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> Regards,

>> rfg

>>

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>

>>

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>

>>

>>

>> --

>>

>> Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa

>> mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za> Tel:

>> +27.826010496<tel:+27826010496>

>> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za<

>> https://ftth.posix.co.za>

>>

>> [Posix Systems][VCARD for MJ Elkins]

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>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 5

>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:11:04 +0200

>> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>

>> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net

>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> Message-ID: <7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17 at seacom.mu>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>>

>> I don't disagree with that either.

>>

>> I am certain AFRINIC are working on this, and I know there will be no

>> shortage of queries about this from the field, much to our

>> already-clogged e-mail boxes. I don't want to do the jobs of others; no

>> one is doing mine for me.

>>

>> My preferred current focus - your last paragraph, below.

>>

>> Mark.

>>

>> On 5/Dec/19 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:

>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears

>> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

>> >

>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

>> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

>> >

>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been

>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of

>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving

>> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.?

>> >

>> > Mike

>> >

>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu

>> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:

>> >>

>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >>

>> >> Mark.

>> >>

>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

>> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>> >>>

>> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see

>> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>> >>>

>> >>> Thanks.

>> >>>

>> >>> Sunday.

>> >>>

>> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

>> >>>> following

>> >>>> news story.

>> >>>>

>> >>>>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >>>>

>> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the

>> >>>> moment, I only

>> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> >>>> Vermeulen

>> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> >>>> ? ? Regards,

>> >>>> rfg

>> >>>>

>> >>>>

>> >>>> _______________________________________________

>> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >>>>

>> >>

>> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >

>>

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>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 6

>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:54:21 +0100

>> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>

>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> Message-ID: <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"

>>

>> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest

>> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy

>> space.

>>

>> The community has been informed that there is already some internal

>> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

>> done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

>> established, the law should take its course and people should stand

>> accountable for their deeds.

>>

>> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

>> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7

>> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover

>> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active

>> use, why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for

>> the common good?

>>

>> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal

>> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.

>>

>> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf

>> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,

>> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should

>> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are

>> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our

>> time and intellect.

>>

>> Sunday.

>>

>> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:

>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears

>> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

>> >

>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

>> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

>> >

>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been

>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of

>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving

>> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.

>> >

>> > Mike

>> >

>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu

>> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:

>> >>

>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >>

>> >> Mark.

>> >>

>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

>> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>> >>>

>> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see

>> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>> >>>

>> >>> Thanks.

>> >>>

>> >>> Sunday.

>> >>>

>> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the

>> >>>> following

>> >>>> news story.

>> >>>>

>> >>>>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >>>>

>> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the

>> >>>> moment, I only

>> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> >>>> Vermeulen

>> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> >>>> ? ? Regards,

>> >>>> rfg

>> >>>>

>> >>>>

>> >>>> _______________________________________________

>> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >>>>

>> >>

>> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >

>> >

>> > _______________________________________________

>> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>>

>> --

>> --------------------------------------------------

>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan

>> Managing Director

>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

>> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com

>> ---------------------------------------------------

>>

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>> >

>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 7

>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:15:59 +0200

>> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>

>> To: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>

>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> Message-ID:

>> <CAG1eoi3w-F2Ui-BfiKmBqYJ=

>> srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw at mail.gmail.com>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>>

>> I have to agree with this. As shocking and disappointing as the

>> revelations

>> might be, this makes the most sense to me.

>>

>> Omo

>>

>> On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, 20:56 Sunday Folayan, <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

>>

>> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest

>> > that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy

>> > space.

>> >

>> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal

>> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

>> done.

>> > I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

>> established,

>> > the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for

>> > their deeds.

>> >

>> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

>> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7

>> > years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover

>> > the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active

>> use,

>> > why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the

>> > common good?

>> >

>> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal

>> > department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by

>> now.

>> >

>> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf

>> of

>> > the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with

>> > the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather

>> > apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for

>> > developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and

>> > intellect.

>> > Sunday.

>> >

>> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:

>> >

>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to

>> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

>> >

>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

>> and

>> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

>> >

>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space

>> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and

>> then

>> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current

>> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those

>> processes

>> > may not have the desired outcome.

>> >

>> > Mike

>> >

>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:

>> >

>> > Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >

>> > Mark.

>> >

>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >

>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

>> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>> >

>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to

>> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>> >

>> > Thanks.

>> >

>> > Sunday.

>> >

>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >

>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following

>> > news story.

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I

>> > only

>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> Vermeulen

>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> > Regards,

>> > rfg

>> >

>> >

>> > _______________________________________________

>> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >

>> >

>> > _______________________________________________

>> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > _______________________________________________

>> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://

>> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >

>> > --

>> > --------------------------------------------------

>> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan

>> > Managing Director

>> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

>> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

>> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

>> > Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com

>> > ---------------------------------------------------

>> >

>> > _______________________________________________

>> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >

>> -------------- next part --------------

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>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/582fac38/attachment-0001.html

>> >

>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 8

>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:28:06 +0100

>> From: Sylvain Baya <abscoco at gmail.com>

>> To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>,

>> "community-discuss at afrinic.net" <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> Subject: [Community-Discuss] [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> Message-ID:

>> <

>> CAJjTEvE+sHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS+AwyF6Kg at mail.gmail.com>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>>

>> Hi all,

>>

>> Le jeudi 5 d?cembre 2019, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za> a ?crit :

>>

>> > Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to

>> > manipulate the non-legacy space -

>> >

>>

>> Dear Mark,

>> ...i agree !

>>

>> yet it happened. In this case (looting of non-legacy space), the RSA has

>> > meant nothing.

>> >

>>

>> As you say, i take you on words ; then if the RSA (Registration Service

>> Agreement) could

>> easily be bypassed, how to deal with our 'emerged' problem ?

>>

>> ...perhaps time to seriously reconsider the long life DPP (Draft Policy

>> Proposal) [1] ?

>> __

>> [1]: <https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp>

>>

>> Shalom,

>> --sb.

>>

>> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:

>> >

>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to

>> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

>> >

>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem

>> and

>> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

>> >

>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space

>> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and

>> then

>> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current

>> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those

>> processes

>> > may not have the desired outcome.

>> >

>> > Mike

>> >

>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:

>> >

>> > Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >

>> > Mark.

>> >

>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >

>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

>> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>> >

>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to

>> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>> >

>> > Thanks.

>> >

>> > Sunday.

>> >

>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >

>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following

>> > news story.

>> >

>> > https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-

>> >

>> resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I

>> > only

>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> Vermeulen

>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> > Regards,

>> > rfg

>> >

>> >

>> > _______________________________________________

>> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >

>> >

>> > _______________________________________________

>> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > _______________________________________________

>> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://

>> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >

>> > --

>> >

>> > Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa

>> > mje at posix.co.za Tel: +27.826010496 <+27826010496>

>> > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za

>> >

>> > [image: Posix Systems][image: VCARD for MJ Elkins]

>> >

>>

>>

>> --

>>

>> --

>> Best Regards !

>> baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] | <https://www.cmnog.cm> | <

>> https://survey.cmnog.cm>

>> Subscribe to Mailing List : <

>> https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/>

>> __

>> #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|?#?Romains15?:33?*Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec

>> vous tous! ?#?Amen?!*?

>> ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement?

>> ?*Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire

>> apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!*? (#Psaumes42:2)

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>> >

>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 9

>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:43:48 +0100

>> From: Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com>

>> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

>> Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net

>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> Message-ID: <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

>>

>> I know what sparked this story. Some people have no chill. How convenient

>> following the last meeting in June. Ok, and then what? What have you

>> benefited?

>>

>> Sent from my iPhone

>>

>> > On 4 Dec 2019, at 18:23, Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

>> wrote:

>> >

>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following

>> > news story.

>> >

>> >

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >

>> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I

>> only

>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan

>> Vermeulen

>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> >

>> >

>> > Regards,

>> > rfg

>> >

>> >

>> > _______________________________________________

>> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>>

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 10

>> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:44:58 -0800

>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> Message-ID: <18818.1575585898 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>>

>> In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,

>> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

>>

>> >The community has been informed that there is already some internal

>> >investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

>> >done.

>>

>> Mr. Folayan,

>>

>> These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,

>> 2019, a full three months ago. Since that time there has not been a

>> single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,

>> or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague assurances

>> that these matters are being looked into.

>>

>> Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns

>> about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full

>> three years ago.

>>

>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html

>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html

>>

>> I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again

>> repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,

>> albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention

>> paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any

>> concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.

>>

>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html

>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html

>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html

>>

>> At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly

>> in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive

>> issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to

>> entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it

>> were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the

>> courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za. Neither the board nor

>> the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any

>> clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will

>> either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders

>> and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive

>> any of the findings that it may reach. And yet despite having had

>> either three full months or three full years to look into these

>> matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and

>> despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming

>> from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.

>>

>> This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the

>> community's patience to come to an end? Does the community have any

>> assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another

>> three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield

>> anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the

>> current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions

>> of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?

>>

>> On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at long

>> last be forthcoming?

>>

>> >I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

>> >established, the law should take its course and people should stand

>> >accountable for their deeds.

>>

>> This assertion on your part begs four further questions:

>>

>> 1) Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented

>> in the MyBroadband.co.za article, the majority of which were drawn from

>> publicly available sources including open government records, what more

>> will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and intentions

>> are established"? What parts of the abundant documentary evidence already

>> presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?

>>

>> 2) If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za article, it can be

>> persuasively

>> demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in fact

>> purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC

>> itself is one of the aggrieved parties? And if so, would you hope and

>> expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and

>> all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?

>>

>> 3) Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and

>> endemic

>> within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do you

>> have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all

>> likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?

>>

>> 4) What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-

>> documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from

>> AFRINIC's own free pool? Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed by

>> AFRINIC? Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever they

>> may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty

>> on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?

>>

>> >I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

>> >organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7

>> >years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover

>> >the manipulations.

>>

>> On this point, you and I are in complete agreement. "The system", such

>> as it is, is quite self-evidently broken. But this raises the further

>> question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at

>> AFRINIC,

>> while all of this was going on. Is it even plausible that a single bad

>> actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars

>> worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a

>> several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC

>> staff even noticed any of this?

>>

>> >For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal

>> >department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by

>> now.

>>

>> See above. Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with

>> respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself. No other

>> single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much

>> valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself. And yet we have, as yet, no

>> clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff

>> member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone

>> that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated

>> by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.

>>

>> If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.

>>

>> >While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf

>> >of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,

>> >with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should

>> >rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are

>> >available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our

>> >time and intellect.

>>

>> See above. With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we

>> may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"? I have

>> so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any

>> document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of

>> AFRINIC. In fact, quite the opposite. I see that a purported three

>> month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly

>> reporting on so far. I see an attempt to shift the blame for this

>> colossal

>> and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders

>> while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of

>> AFRINIC itself. I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action

>> will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a

>> backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general

>> disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific

>> national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.

>>

>> For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,

>> Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.

>> The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and

>> to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or

>> placed

>> under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to all.

>> AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding

>> responsibility.

>>

>> I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively

>> remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing

>> after-effects. I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now

>> evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the carpet

>> will no longer be considered a vialble option.

>>

>>

>> Regards,

>> rfg

>>

>>

>> P.S. I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower" in

>> this context Mr. Folayan. That term is usually used in reference to some

>> insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed

>> first-hand some malfeasance. Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this

>> description. Rather, we have labored as outsiders only. We have not

>> been privy to any "inside" information. Quite the opposite in fact. We

>> have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests

>> for information by AFRINIC staff.

>>

>> Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our

>> reasonable

>> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.

>> Exactly

>> such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other

>> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists upon

>> request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such unredacted

>> WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were rejected

>> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved policy

>> was cited as the basis for the denial.

>>

>> At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate explanation

>> for

>> this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be

>> granted at long last. Certain portions of my research cannot be completed

>> without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis

>> for

>> the rejection of such requests.

>>

>>

>> P.P.S. As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the

>> numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place. I feel

>> compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been

>> double-victimized in at least two specific instances.

>>

>> First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4

>> blocks "liberated" from its free pool. Secondarily and even more

>> insultingly

>> however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also

>> arranged

>> to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be associated

>> with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other

>> legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4

>> allocations.

>>

>> I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15 block,

>> registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the

>> non-legacy

>> 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.

>> These

>> blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six million

>> U.S. dollars.

>>

>> As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD

>> mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as MEMBER-ONLY,

>> as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any

>> actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to

>> AFRINIC.

>>

>> I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this

>> regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it does

>> appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-

>> stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years

>> on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be due

>> on these IPv4 assignments.

>>

>> Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further

>> clarification

>> with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been

>> collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for

>> any year since their allocation to and association with the organizations

>> noted.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 11

>> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 17:24:26 -0800

>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

>> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net

>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> Message-ID: <19435.1575595466 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>>

>> In message <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>,

>> Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com> wrote:

>>

>> >I know what sparked this story.

>>

>> If you have something to say, then you have our attention and the floor.

>> Please proceed.

>>

>>

>> Regards,

>> rfg

>>

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 12

>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 10:04:06 +0100

>> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>

>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> Message-ID: <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>>

>> Hi Sunday, all,

>>

>>

>>

>> I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let me

>> tell why.

>>

>>

>>

>> I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My first

>> AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly after,

>> during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could contribute to

>> the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and joining Ernest in his

>> trips to do the Registration Services training so I do IPv6 trainings.

>>

>>

>>

>> Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos, I

>> was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the Madrid

>> Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from Sunday, I could

>> resolve that on the next day and flight again to do the training.

>>

>>

>>

>> My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,

>> and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been doing

>> those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been able to take

>> advantage of that.

>>

>>

>>

>> The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as well

>> as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much together,

>> you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost 15 years. Of

>> course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a hidden face. As

>> humans, we all have positive and negative things. But I?m really shocked, I

>> still resist to believe it.

>>

>>

>>

>> I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the position

>> of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use

>> your own name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe

>> someone,? may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to

>> appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly and

>> non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean he is

>> still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or something

>> similar.

>>

>>

>>

>> Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents. If

>> you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.

>>

>>

>>

>> So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and

>> may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and

>> involvement an all this.

>>

>>

>>

>> Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal interest.

>> My only interest is to know the *real true* and I?m sure everybody agrees

>> on that.

>>

>>

>>

>> Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so no

>> doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very

>> thankful for that.

>>

>>

>>

>> Regards,

>>

>> Jordi

>>

>> @jordipalet

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com> escribi?:

>>

>>

>>

>> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest

>> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy

>> space.

>>

>> The community has been informed that there is already some internal

>> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things done.

>> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are established,

>> the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for

>> their deeds.

>>

>> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

>> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7

>> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover

>> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active use,

>> why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the

>> common good?

>>

>> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal

>> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.

>>

>> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf of

>> the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with

>> the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather

>> apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for

>> developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and

>> intellect.

>>

>> Sunday.

>>

>>

>>

>> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:

>>

>> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to

>> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

>>

>>

>>

>> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and

>> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

>>

>>

>>

>> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space

>> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then

>> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current

>> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes

>> may not have the desired outcome.

>>

>>

>>

>> Mike

>>

>>

>>

>> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:

>>

>>

>>

>> Completely agree with Sunday.

>>

>> Mark.

>>

>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>>

>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient

>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC

>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

>>

>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to

>> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

>>

>> Thanks.

>>

>> Sunday.

>>

>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>>

>>

>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following

>> news story.

>>

>>

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I

>> only

>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen

>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> Regards,

>> rfg

>>

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>>

>>

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> --

>> --------------------------------------------------

>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan

>> Managing Director

>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

>> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com

>> ---------------------------------------------------

>> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing

>> list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>>

>>

>>

>> **********************************************

>> IPv4 is over

>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?

>> http://www.theipv6company.com

>> The IPv6 Company

>>

>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or

>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of

>> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized

>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this

>> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly

>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the

>> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or

>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including

>> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal

>> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this

>> communication and delete it.

>>

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>> >

>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 13

>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:16:03 +0100

>> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>

>> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>, General Discussions

>> of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> Message-ID: <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

>>

>> Dear Mr Guilmette,

>>

>> Regrettably, I do not monitor the press, but selected channels such as

>> this list. It seems I got your attention, or you got my attention, or we

>> both got each other's attention. Let us therefore maximize the possession.

>>

>> Important and interesting questions, that you have raised in this email.

>> Let us put some punch in it. Kindly change the TO: field to

>> ceo at afrinic.net, and cc the Community just to make sure it is not

>> ignored, then resend it. I am sure the CEO will answer all the questions

>> you here posed to me. Pity he has to start his tenure with these hard

>> nuts and curveballs, but he is capable. He speaks for the Company, not me.

>>

>> I am equally sure that the Community appreciates the great work done,

>> and no one supports the exposed fraud. You are a stakeholder, and not

>> some casual bystander so please note this. What you conveniently

>> ignored, is that the #1 accused company insider is the eye of the

>> company on the policy lists, where you raised the issues.

>>

>> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should

>> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more

>> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.

>> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.

>>

>> My use of the term "Whistleblowers" is appropriate, as I looked at one

>> of your reference links, and indeed, someone confirmed to you privately

>> that your hunch is right. If you do not claim the honour, they should,

>> because you rightly built on their work!

>>

>> Great job you are doing.

>>

>> Have a great day.

>>

>> Sunday.

>>

>> On 05/12/2019 23:44, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> > In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,

>> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

>> >

>> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal

>> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

>> >> done.

>> > Mr. Folayan,

>> >

>> > These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,

>> > 2019, a full three months ago. Since that time there has not been a

>> > single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,

>> > or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague

>> assurances

>> > that these matters are being looked into.

>> >

>> > Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns

>> > about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full

>> > three years ago.

>> >

>> >

>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html

>> >

>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html

>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html

>> >

>> > I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again

>> > repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,

>> > albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention

>> > paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any

>> > concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.

>> >

>> > https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html

>> > https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html

>> > https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html

>> >

>> > At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly

>> > in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive

>> > issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to

>> > entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it

>> > were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the

>> > courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za. Neither the board nor

>> > the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any

>> > clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will

>> > either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders

>> > and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive

>> > any of the findings that it may reach. And yet despite having had

>> > either three full months or three full years to look into these

>> > matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and

>> > despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming

>> > from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.

>> >

>> > This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the

>> > community's patience to come to an end? Does the community have any

>> > assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another

>> > three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield

>> > anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the

>> > current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions

>> > of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?

>> >

>> > On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at

>> long

>> > last be forthcoming?

>> >

>> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

>> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand

>> >> accountable for their deeds.

>> > This assertion on your part begs four further questions:

>> >

>> > 1) Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented

>> > in the MyBroadband.co.za article, the majority of which were drawn from

>> > publicly available sources including open government records, what more

>> > will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and

>> intentions

>> > are established"? What parts of the abundant documentary evidence

>> already

>> > presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?

>> >

>> > 2) If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za article, it can be

>> persuasively

>> > demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in

>> fact

>> > purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC

>> > itself is one of the aggrieved parties? And if so, would you hope and

>> > expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and

>> > all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?

>> >

>> > 3) Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and

>> endemic

>> > within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do

>> you

>> > have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all

>> > likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?

>> >

>> > 4) What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-

>> > documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from

>> > AFRINIC's own free pool? Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed

>> by

>> > AFRINIC? Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever

>> they

>> > may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty

>> > on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?

>> >

>> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

>> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7

>> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to

>> discover

>> >> the manipulations.

>> > On this point, you and I are in complete agreement. "The system", such

>> > as it is, is quite self-evidently broken. But this raises the further

>> > question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at

>> AFRINIC,

>> > while all of this was going on. Is it even plausible that a single bad

>> > actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars

>> > worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a

>> > several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC

>> > staff even noticed any of this?

>> >

>> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal

>> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by

>> now.

>> > See above. Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with

>> > respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself. No other

>> > single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much

>> > valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself. And yet we have, as yet, no

>> > clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff

>> > member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone

>> > that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated

>> > by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.

>> >

>> > If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.

>> >

>> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf

>> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,

>> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should

>> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are

>> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of

>> our

>> >> time and intellect.

>> > See above. With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we

>> > may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"? I

>> have

>> > so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any

>> > document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of

>> > AFRINIC. In fact, quite the opposite. I see that a purported three

>> > month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly

>> > reporting on so far. I see an attempt to shift the blame for this

>> colossal

>> > and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders

>> > while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of

>> > AFRINIC itself. I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action

>> > will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a

>> > backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general

>> > disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific

>> > national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.

>> >

>> > For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,

>> > Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.

>> > The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and

>> > to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or

>> placed

>> > under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to

>> all.

>> > AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding

>> responsibility.

>> >

>> > I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively

>> > remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing

>> > after-effects. I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now

>> > evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the

>> carpet

>> > will no longer be considered a vialble option.

>> >

>> >

>> > Regards,

>> > rfg

>> >

>> >

>> > P.S. I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower"

>> in

>> > this context Mr. Folayan. That term is usually used in reference to

>> some

>> > insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed

>> > first-hand some malfeasance. Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this

>> > description. Rather, we have labored as outsiders only. We have not

>> > been privy to any "inside" information. Quite the opposite in fact. We

>> > have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests

>> > for information by AFRINIC staff.

>> >

>> > Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our

>> reasonable

>> > requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.

>> Exactly

>> > such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other

>> > Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists

>> upon

>> > request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such

>> unredacted

>> > WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were

>> rejected

>> > out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved

>> policy

>> > was cited as the basis for the denial.

>> >

>> > At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate

>> explanation for

>> > this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be

>> > granted at long last. Certain portions of my research cannot be

>> completed

>> > without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis

>> for

>> > the rejection of such requests.

>> >

>> >

>> > P.P.S. As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the

>> > numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place. I feel

>> > compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been

>> > double-victimized in at least two specific instances.

>> >

>> > First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4

>> > blocks "liberated" from its free pool. Secondarily and even more

>> insultingly

>> > however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also

>> arranged

>> > to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be

>> associated

>> > with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other

>> > legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4

>> > allocations.

>> >

>> > I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15

>> block,

>> > registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the

>> non-legacy

>> > 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.

>> These

>> > blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six

>> million

>> > U.S. dollars.

>> >

>> > As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD

>> > mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as

>> MEMBER-ONLY,

>> > as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any

>> > actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to

>> > AFRINIC.

>> >

>> > I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this

>> > regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it

>> does

>> > appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-

>> > stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years

>> > on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be

>> due

>> > on these IPv4 assignments.

>> >

>> > Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further

>> clarification

>> > with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been

>> > collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for

>> > any year since their allocation to and association with the

>> organizations

>> > noted.

>> >

>> >

>> > _______________________________________________

>> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>>

>> --

>> --------------------------------------------------

>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan

>> Managing Director

>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

>> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com

>> ---------------------------------------------------

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 14

>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:07:01 -0800

>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> Message-ID: <21084.1575626821 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>>

>> Mr. Folayan,

>>

>> Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful response.

>>

>> At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond

>> what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.

>>

>>

>> In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,

>> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

>>

>> >I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should

>> >conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more

>> >honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.

>> >It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.

>>

>> Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.

>>

>> Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see

>> the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC. That is quite certainly not a

>> goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as

>> you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder

>> should wish for. AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global

>> Internet governance. I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.

>> No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a

>> few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second. And to use an

>> even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing

>> smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than

>> I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.

>>

>> If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being

>> formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested

>> that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already

>> sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being

>> preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere. Now I may stand on the comfortable

>> shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but

>> I do not question the utility of the journey.

>>

>> The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters

>> of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose. Time will

>> tell if that is an accurate assesment.

>>

>>

>> Regards,

>> rfg

>>

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 15

>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:14:31 +0100

>> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>

>> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>, General

>> Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> Message-ID: <8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed at gmail.com>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

>>

>> Good points Jordi, and thanks for the throwback on the very many amazing

>> sacrifices we all made, to grow the Internet in Africa.

>>

>> I will resist asking Ernest to defend himself here, We are not

>> constituted as a competent jury, neither do we want to compromise the

>> ongoing investigations.

>>

>> Questions are appropriate, so will be his own admissions or rebuttals,

>> when the investigations are completed.

>>

>> I may be wrong, but that is my own expectations and position.

>>

>> Sunday.

>>

>> On 06/12/2019 10:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:

>> >

>> > Hi Sunday, all,

>> >

>> > I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let

>> > me tell why.

>> >

>> > I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My

>> > first AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly

>> > after, during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could

>> > contribute to the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and

>> > joining Ernest in his trips to do the Registration Services training

>> > so I do IPv6 trainings.

>> >

>> > Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos,

>> > I was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the

>> > Madrid Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from

>> > Sunday, I could resolve that on the next day and flight again to do

>> > the training.

>> >

>> > My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,

>> > and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been

>> > doing those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been

>> > able to take advantage of that.

>> >

>> > The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as

>> > well as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much

>> > together, you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost

>> > 15 years. Of course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a

>> > hidden face. As humans, we all have positive and negative things. But

>> > I?m really shocked, I still resist to believe it.

>> >

>> > I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the

>> > position of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think

>> > you will use your own name for registering companies, or instead you

>> > will bribe someone, may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your

>> > family name to appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly

>> > and non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean

>> > he is still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or

>> > something similar.

>> >

>> > Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents.

>> > If you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.

>> >

>> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,

>> > and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and

>> > involvement an all this.

>> >

>> > Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal

>> > interest. My only interest is to know the **real true** and I?m sure

>> > everybody agrees on that.

>> >

>> > Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so

>> > no doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very

>> > thankful for that.

>> >

>> > Regards,

>> >

>> > Jordi

>> >

>> > @jordipalet

>> >

>> > El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com

>> > <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> escribi?:

>> >

>> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway

>> > suggest that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only

>> > on legacy space.

>> >

>> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal

>> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things

>> > done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are

>> > established, the law should take its course and people should stand

>> > accountable for their deeds.

>> >

>> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund

>> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of

>> > 7 years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to

>> > discover the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or

>> > in active use, why would or should they not have been returned to the

>> > Registry for the common good?

>> >

>> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their

>> > legal department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with

>> > gusto by now.

>> >

>> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf

>> > of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,

>> > with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should

>> > rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are

>> > available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of

>> > our time and intellect.

>> >

>> > Sunday.

>> >

>> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:

>> >

>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there

>> > appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy

>> > space.

>> >

>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the

>> > problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

>> >

>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how

>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been

>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of

>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then

>> > moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired

>> > outcome.

>> >

>> > Mike

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu

>> > <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:

>> >

>> > Completely agree with Sunday.

>> >

>> > Mark.

>> >

>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

>> >

>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically

>> > ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet

>> > in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces

>> > under some form of RSA?

>> >

>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let

>> > us see how to help and empower the people doing useful

>> > work for Africa.

>> >

>> > Thanks.

>> >

>> > Sunday.

>> >

>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> >

>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think

>> > about the following

>> > news story.

>> >

>> >

>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html

>> >

>> > ? I will have more to say about this in due course.?

>> > For the moment, I only

>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by

>> > myself and Jan Vermeulen

>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.

>> > ? ? Regards,

>> > rfg

>> >

>> >

>> > _______________________________________________

>> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> > <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >

>> >

>> > _______________________________________________

>> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> > <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > _______________________________________________

>> >

>> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >

>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:

>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

>> >

>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >

>> > --

>> > --------------------------------------------------

>> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan

>> > Managing Director

>> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

>> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

>> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

>> > Email:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>,

>> sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>

>> > ---------------------------------------------------

>> >

>> > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss

>> > mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >

>> >

>> > **********************************************

>> > IPv4 is over

>> > Are you ready for the new Internet ?

>> > http://www.theipv6company.com

>> > The IPv6 Company

>> >

>> > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged

>> > or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive

>> > use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty

>> > authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of

>> > this information, even if partially, including attached files, is

>> > strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you

>> > are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,

>> > distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if

>> > partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be

>> > considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original

>> > sender to inform about this communication and delete it.

>> >

>> >

>> > _______________________________________________

>> > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>>

>> --

>> --------------------------------------------------

>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan

>> Managing Director

>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)

>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria

>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523

>> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com

>> ---------------------------------------------------

>>

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>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 16

>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 12:17:52 +0200

>> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>

>> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>

>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> Message-ID: <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>>

>>

>>

>> > On 6 Dec 2019, at 11:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <

>> community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote:

>> >

>> >

>> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,

>> and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and

>> involvement an all this.

>> >

>>

>>

>> :-) Might as well setup a confession booth and provide absolution of

>> souls. On a serious note, we need a proper investigation. Let?s wait to

>> hear from the CEO

>>

>> Omo

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

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>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 17

>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:21:40 +0100

>> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>

>> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>, General Discussions

>> of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> Message-ID: <c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10 at gmail.com>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

>>

>> Dear Mr Guilmette,

>>

>> On 06/12/2019 11:07, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

>> > Mr. Folayan,

>> >

>> > Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful

>> response.

>> >

>> > At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond

>> > what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.

>> >

>> >

>> > In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,

>> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

>> >

>> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should

>> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more

>> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking

>> stakeholder.

>> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.

>> > Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.

>> >

>> > Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see

>> > the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC. That is quite certainly not a

>> > goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as

>> > you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder

>> > should wish for. AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global

>> > Internet governance. I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.

>> > No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a

>> > few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second. And to use an

>> > even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing

>> > smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than

>> > I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.

>> >

>> > If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being

>> > formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested

>> > that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already

>> > sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being

>> > preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere. Now I may stand on the comfortable

>> > shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but

>> > I do not question the utility of the journey.

>> >

>> > The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters

>> > of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose. Time will

>> > tell if that is an accurate assesment.

>>

>>

>> This is most assuring and comforting at the same time.

>>

>> If I have sounded off-key, please accept my sincere apologies, and thank

>> you very much for the good job you have done for the community so far.

>> History will never forget your role and progressive disposition at this

>> point in time.

>>

>> When AfriNIC was being formed, the challenges of today, were not

>> envisioned in the very many ways that they now present themselves.

>> Africa has come a long way. Unfortunately, there are still many more

>> oceans to cross, but we will all band together as a purposeful fleet.

>> That is how we can all weather the storms that may come, but sure they

>> will come.

>>

>> With kind Regards ...

>>

>> Sunday.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 18

>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:58:27 -0800

>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> Message-ID: <21283.1575629907 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>>

>> In message <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>,

>> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:

>>

>> >I also believe that he is a smart guy.

>>

>> I would not dispute that characterization in the slightest.

>>

>> >So, put yourself in the position of

>> >a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use

>> your o

>> >wn name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe

>> someone,=C2=A0

>> > may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear in

>> an

>> >y documents? I feel this is really silly and non-understandable.

>>

>> And yet it seemed to work, for years on end, with no one raising so much

>> as an eyebrow because nobody seriously investigated or seriously looked

>> at all of the relevant corporate documents and WHOIS records and, in

>> particular, the historical WHOIS records, including but not limited to

>> these ones:

>>

>> ORG-AI2-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD

>> ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB

>> ORG-IA41-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP

>> ORG-ZZ139-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW

>> ORG-ZZ23-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N

>>

>> I have been chasing down miscreants on the Internet for more than 20 years

>> now. One of the lessons I have learned in that time is that none of them

>> are ten feet tall, and the majority of them absolutely suck at OPSEC. It

>> is almost as if some part of them is deluding their own brains into the

>> false belief that what they are doing is not really wrong, in some

>> sense, and that they are somehow actually entitled to the stuff they are

>> stealing, and that thus, at some level, they don't actually need to hide

>> what they are doing all that throughly, because just as White House Chief

>> of Staff Mick Mulvaney did not long ago... much to the shock of

>> everyone...

>> if they are ever caught and confronted they assume that they will just say

>> "Yea. So? We do that all of the time. Get over it!"

>>

>> >So maybe

>> >somebody used him, which doesn=E2=80=99t mean he is still guilty

>> =E2=80=9Cin

>> >vigilando=E2=80=9D because he trusted anyone else, or something similar.

>>

>> It's a nice thought, and you are a generous person to allow this

>> possibility

>> Jordi. All I can say is that other information, not yet made public,

>> appears to rule out the possibility that Mr. Byaruhanga was either an

>> unwitting stooge or a convenient fall guy.

>>

>> >Do we believe in =E2=80=9Cpresumption of innocence=E2=80=9D? I do,

>> despite

>> >documents. If you don=E2=80=99t know the complete background, documents

>> may

>> >not be enough.

>>

>> I agree.

>>

>> That having been said, I hope that you will, as I have, spend some time

>> carefully scrutinizing both the current and historical WHOIS records

>> associated with the ORGanizations and the IPv4 blocks listed in the two

>> tables in Jan's article. If you do that, I think that you will be, as

>> I was, hard pressed to explain all of the quite glaring anomalies in

>> any way that does not involve a great deal of very deliberate malfesance

>> on somebody's part. Once you are convinced of that, then the question

>> becomes: Who is responsible? And it is at that point that the various

>> official governmental corporate registration records would seem to become

>> very relevant.

>>

>> >So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and

>> >may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and

>> involvement

>> >an all this.

>>

>> I would like to echo that sentiment.

>>

>> Jan Vermeulen and myself have tried, repeatedly, and over some significant

>> time now to reach him, both via voice, at a number of different phone

>> numbers

>> that we have identified as being associated with him, and also via email,

>> at various of his known email addresses, and we have been utterly unable

>> to

>> do so. We both very much look forward to speaking with him and getting

>> his

>> side of the story, if he has one.

>>

>> That having been said, we cannot be blamed, I think, for reaching certain

>> reasonable conclusions when Jan's industry sources informed him, less than

>> a day after I had attempted to confront Ernest, via email, with the facts

>> arrayed against him, that he had abruptly resigned his position at AFRINIC

>> after 15 years on the job.

>>

>> His abrupt resignation was and remains his only apparent response to our

>> inquiries.

>>

>>

>> Regards,

>> rfg

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 19

>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 03:16:57 -0800

>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

>> Message-ID: <21648.1575631017 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>>

>> In message <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>,

>> Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> wrote:

>>

>> >On a serious note, we need a proper investigation. Let's

>> >wait to hear from the CEO

>>

>> Have any of us been doing otherwise, for lo these past three months now?

>>

>> Have we been afforded any other choice in the matter?

>>

>> Can AFRINIC clean its own stables?

>>

>>

>> Regards,

>> rfg

>>

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Subject: Digest Footer

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1

>> *************************************************

>>

>

>

> --

> *Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb*

> *muyiwacaleb at gmail.com <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>*

> *234 - 8077377378*

> *234 - 07030777969*

> _______________________________________________

> Community-Discuss mailing list

> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>

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