[Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1
Arnaud AMELINA
amelnaud at gmail.com
Tue Dec 10 13:48:37 UTC 2019
+1 to Caleb as you say it, it's time to find consensus on review policy.
Regard
--
Arnaud
Le ven. 6 déc. 2019 à 15:48, Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>
a écrit :
> Dear Ronald,
>
> So I read where this comment below was attributed to you.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *>“Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
> reasonable> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS
> database. Exactly> such unredacted database dumps *are* provided by all of
> the four other> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and
> journalists upon> request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly
> such unredacted> WHOIS database dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our
> requests were rejected> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any
> community-approved policy> was cited as the basis for the denial.”*
> While not taking brief for AFRINIC or any of its staff, I feel you should
> know that AFRINIC’s operation is also being governed by Mauritius data
> protection law.
> Mauritius regulates data protection under the Data Protection Act 2017
> (DPA 2017 or Act), proclaimed through Proclamation No. 3 of 2018, effective
> January 15, 2018. The Act repeals and replaces the Data Protection Act
> 2004, so as to align with the European Union General Data Protection
> Regulation 2016/679 (GDPR).
>
> Even if you are not familiar with Mauritius law, the EU GDPR which is more
> popular should tell you the implication of revealing a WHOIS database to a
> non-state prosecutorial actor like yourself who does not have a court
> warrant to see the redacted sections you seek. Please correct me if I’m
> wrong in my legal analysis of your request.
>
> Perhaps, isn’t it time for the community to revisit the Internet Number
> Resources review policy
> <https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal> which was not
> on the docket for policy at this just-concluded meeting?
> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal
>
> We might be doing something right this time if that policy will allow for
> a diligent review of resources including the legacy ones.
>
> Regards
>
> Caleb Ogundele
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 12:17 PM <community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to
>> community-discuss at afrinic.net
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> community-discuss-request at afrinic.net
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)
>> 2. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mike Silber)
>> 3. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Elkins)
>> 4. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Andrew Alston)
>> 5. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)
>> 6. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>> 7. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)
>> 8. [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC (Sylvain Baya)
>> 9. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Isabel Odida)
>> 10. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>> 11. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>> 12. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)
>> 13. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>> 14. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>> 15. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>> 16. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)
>> 17. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>> 18. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>> 19. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:27:42 +0200
>> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
>> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16 at seacom.mu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Completely agree with Sunday.
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >
>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
>> > to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > Sunday.
>> >
>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
>> >> news story.
>> >>
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >>
>> >> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the moment,
>> >> I only
>> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >> Vermeulen
>> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >> ? ? Regards,
>> >> rfg
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/7f6aa1b8/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:46:15 +0200
>> From: Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
>> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>>
>> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and
>> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>>
>> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
>> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then
>> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
>> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes
>> may not have the desired outcome.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
>> >
>> > Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >
>> > Mark.
>> >
>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >>
>> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
>> to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks.
>> >>
>> >> Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> following
>> >>> news story.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> <
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
>>
>> >>> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment,
>> I only
>> >>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> Vermeulen
>> >>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >>> Regards,
>> >>> rfg
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>> >>>
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/1d4a9dec/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:59:57 +0200
>> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>
>> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f at posix.co.za>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>>
>> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
>> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting
>> of non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.
>>
>> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
>> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
>> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
>> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> Mark.
>> >>
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >>>
>> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
>> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks.
>> >>>
>> >>> Sunday.
>> >>>
>> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> >>>> following
>> >>>> news story.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
>> >>>> moment, I only
>> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >>>> Vermeulen
>> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >>>> ? ? Regards,
>> >>>> rfg
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>>>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> --
>>
>> Mark James ELKINS? -? Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>> mje at posix.co.za?????? Tel: +27.826010496 <tel:+27826010496>
>> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>>
>> Posix SystemsVCARD for MJ Elkins
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/3b4bf35e/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>> Name: abessive_logo.jpg
>> Type: image/jpeg
>> Size: 6410 bytes
>> Desc: not available
>> URL: <
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/3b4bf35e/attachment-0001.jpg
>> >
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>> Name: QR-MJElkins.png
>> Type: image/png
>> Size: 2163 bytes
>> Desc: not available
>> URL: <
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/3b4bf35e/attachment-0001.png
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:10:48 +0000
>> From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
>> To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>,
>> "community-discuss at afrinic.net" <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0 at DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com
>> >
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>>
>> I would be very curious to hear from a legal perspective what - if any -
>> legal liability AfriNIC has in a situation like this.
>>
>> The fact is - space has value - and if space is stolen - used for spam or
>> whatever else - and the reputation of said space is damaged - it?s value
>> decreases. Now I fully realize that space can be hijacked - and at that
>> point potentially the hijackers may hold the liability. However - when the
>> space seems to have been stolen and sold off by a staff member of the
>> organization that is meant in effect to the curator of the space - I
>> question if there is not a liability issue at play if it can be proven that
>> due care was not taken to safe guard against the actions taken.
>>
>> I?m no lawyer though so I would really be interested to know the legal
>> perspective - can an rir be held liable to the actions of its staff if it
>> did not adequately protect against the actions taken.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 3:59:57 PM
>> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>>
>>
>> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
>> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting of
>> non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.
>>
>> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
>> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
>> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>>
>> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and
>> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>>
>> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
>> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then
>> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
>> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes
>> may not have the desired outcome.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu<mailto:
>> mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>>
>> Completely agree with Sunday.
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>>
>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
>> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Sunday.
>>
>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
>> news story.
>>
>>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> <
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >
>> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I
>> only
>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen
>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> Regards,
>> rfg
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>> mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za> Tel:
>> +27.826010496<tel:+27826010496>
>> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za<
>> https://ftth.posix.co.za>
>>
>> [Posix Systems][VCARD for MJ Elkins]
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/24fff2bc/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>> Name: abessive_logo.jpg
>> Type: image/jpeg
>> Size: 6410 bytes
>> Desc: abessive_logo.jpg
>> URL: <
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/24fff2bc/attachment-0001.jpg
>> >
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>> Name: QR-MJElkins.png
>> Type: image/png
>> Size: 2163 bytes
>> Desc: QR-MJElkins.png
>> URL: <
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/24fff2bc/attachment-0001.png
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:11:04 +0200
>> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
>> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17 at seacom.mu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> I don't disagree with that either.
>>
>> I am certain AFRINIC are working on this, and I know there will be no
>> shortage of queries about this from the field, much to our
>> already-clogged e-mail boxes. I don't want to do the jobs of others; no
>> one is doing mine for me.
>>
>> My preferred current focus - your last paragraph, below.
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>> On 5/Dec/19 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
>> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
>> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.?
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
>> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> Mark.
>> >>
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >>>
>> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
>> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks.
>> >>>
>> >>> Sunday.
>> >>>
>> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> >>>> following
>> >>>> news story.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
>> >>>> moment, I only
>> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >>>> Vermeulen
>> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >>>> ? ? Regards,
>> >>>> rfg
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>>>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/c8c491fa/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:54:21 +0100
>> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
>>
>> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest
>> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
>> space.
>>
>> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
>> done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> established, the law should take its course and people should stand
>> accountable for their deeds.
>>
>> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
>> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
>> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active
>> use, why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for
>> the common good?
>>
>> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
>> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.
>>
>> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
>> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
>> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
>> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
>> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our
>> time and intellect.
>>
>> Sunday.
>>
>> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
>> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
>> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
>> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> Mark.
>> >>
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >>>
>> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
>> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks.
>> >>>
>> >>> Sunday.
>> >>>
>> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> >>>> following
>> >>>> news story.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
>> >>>> moment, I only
>> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >>>> Vermeulen
>> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >>>> ? ? Regards,
>> >>>> rfg
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>>>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>> --
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> Managing Director
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/118317f5/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:15:59 +0200
>> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>
>> To: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAG1eoi3w-F2Ui-BfiKmBqYJ=
>> srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> I have to agree with this. As shocking and disappointing as the
>> revelations
>> might be, this makes the most sense to me.
>>
>> Omo
>>
>> On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, 20:56 Sunday Folayan, <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest
>> > that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
>> > space.
>> >
>> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
>> done.
>> > I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> established,
>> > the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for
>> > their deeds.
>> >
>> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
>> > years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
>> > the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active
>> use,
>> > why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the
>> > common good?
>> >
>> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
>> > department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
>> now.
>> >
>> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
>> of
>> > the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with
>> > the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather
>> > apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for
>> > developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and
>> > intellect.
>> > Sunday.
>> >
>> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
>> >
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
>> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> and
>> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
>> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
>> then
>> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
>> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
>> processes
>> > may not have the desired outcome.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
>> >
>> > Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >
>> > Mark.
>> >
>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >
>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >
>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
>> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > Sunday.
>> >
>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >
>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
>> > news story.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I
>> > only
>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> Vermeulen
>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> > Regards,
>> > rfg
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://
>> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> > --
>> > --------------------------------------------------
>> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> > Managing Director
>> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> > Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
>> > ---------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/582fac38/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:28:06 +0100
>> From: Sylvain Baya <abscoco at gmail.com>
>> To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>,
>> "community-discuss at afrinic.net" <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: [Community-Discuss] [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> CAJjTEvE+sHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS+AwyF6Kg at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Le jeudi 5 d?cembre 2019, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za> a ?crit :
>>
>> > Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
>> > manipulate the non-legacy space -
>> >
>>
>> Dear Mark,
>> ...i agree !
>>
>> yet it happened. In this case (looting of non-legacy space), the RSA has
>> > meant nothing.
>> >
>>
>> As you say, i take you on words ; then if the RSA (Registration Service
>> Agreement) could
>> easily be bypassed, how to deal with our 'emerged' problem ?
>>
>> ...perhaps time to seriously reconsider the long life DPP (Draft Policy
>> Proposal) [1] ?
>> __
>> [1]: <https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp>
>>
>> Shalom,
>> --sb.
>>
>> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
>> >
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
>> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> and
>> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
>> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
>> then
>> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
>> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
>> processes
>> > may not have the desired outcome.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
>> >
>> > Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >
>> > Mark.
>> >
>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >
>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >
>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
>> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > Sunday.
>> >
>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >
>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
>> > news story.
>> >
>> > https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-
>> >
>> resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I
>> > only
>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> Vermeulen
>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> > Regards,
>> > rfg
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://
>> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>> > mje at posix.co.za Tel: +27.826010496 <+27826010496>
>> > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>> >
>> > [image: Posix Systems][image: VCARD for MJ Elkins]
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> Best Regards !
>> baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] | <https://www.cmnog.cm> | <
>> https://survey.cmnog.cm>
>> Subscribe to Mailing List : <
>> https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/>
>> __
>> #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|?#?Romains15?:33?*Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec
>> vous tous! ?#?Amen?!*?
>> ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement?
>> ?*Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire
>> apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!*? (#Psaumes42:2)
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/63b5ef24/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:43:48 +0100
>> From: Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com>
>> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> I know what sparked this story. Some people have no chill. How convenient
>> following the last meeting in June. Ok, and then what? What have you
>> benefited?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On 4 Dec 2019, at 18:23, Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
>> > news story.
>> >
>> >
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >
>> > I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I
>> only
>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> Vermeulen
>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > rfg
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 10
>> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:44:58 -0800
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <18818.1575585898 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,
>> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> >investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
>> >done.
>>
>> Mr. Folayan,
>>
>> These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,
>> 2019, a full three months ago. Since that time there has not been a
>> single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,
>> or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague assurances
>> that these matters are being looked into.
>>
>> Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns
>> about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full
>> three years ago.
>>
>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html
>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html
>>
>> I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again
>> repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,
>> albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention
>> paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any
>> concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.
>>
>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html
>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html
>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html
>>
>> At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly
>> in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive
>> issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to
>> entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it
>> were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the
>> courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za. Neither the board nor
>> the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any
>> clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will
>> either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders
>> and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive
>> any of the findings that it may reach. And yet despite having had
>> either three full months or three full years to look into these
>> matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and
>> despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming
>> from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.
>>
>> This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the
>> community's patience to come to an end? Does the community have any
>> assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another
>> three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield
>> anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the
>> current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions
>> of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?
>>
>> On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at long
>> last be forthcoming?
>>
>> >I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> >established, the law should take its course and people should stand
>> >accountable for their deeds.
>>
>> This assertion on your part begs four further questions:
>>
>> 1) Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented
>> in the MyBroadband.co.za article, the majority of which were drawn from
>> publicly available sources including open government records, what more
>> will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and intentions
>> are established"? What parts of the abundant documentary evidence already
>> presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?
>>
>> 2) If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za article, it can be
>> persuasively
>> demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in fact
>> purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC
>> itself is one of the aggrieved parties? And if so, would you hope and
>> expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and
>> all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?
>>
>> 3) Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and
>> endemic
>> within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do you
>> have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all
>> likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?
>>
>> 4) What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-
>> documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from
>> AFRINIC's own free pool? Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed by
>> AFRINIC? Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever they
>> may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty
>> on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?
>>
>> >I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> >organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
>> >years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
>> >the manipulations.
>>
>> On this point, you and I are in complete agreement. "The system", such
>> as it is, is quite self-evidently broken. But this raises the further
>> question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at
>> AFRINIC,
>> while all of this was going on. Is it even plausible that a single bad
>> actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars
>> worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a
>> several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC
>> staff even noticed any of this?
>>
>> >For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
>> >department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
>> now.
>>
>> See above. Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with
>> respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself. No other
>> single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much
>> valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself. And yet we have, as yet, no
>> clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff
>> member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone
>> that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated
>> by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.
>>
>> If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.
>>
>> >While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
>> >of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
>> >with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
>> >rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
>> >available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our
>> >time and intellect.
>>
>> See above. With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we
>> may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"? I have
>> so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any
>> document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of
>> AFRINIC. In fact, quite the opposite. I see that a purported three
>> month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly
>> reporting on so far. I see an attempt to shift the blame for this
>> colossal
>> and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders
>> while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of
>> AFRINIC itself. I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action
>> will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a
>> backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general
>> disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific
>> national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.
>>
>> For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,
>> Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.
>> The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and
>> to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or
>> placed
>> under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to all.
>> AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding
>> responsibility.
>>
>> I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively
>> remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing
>> after-effects. I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now
>> evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the carpet
>> will no longer be considered a vialble option.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> rfg
>>
>>
>> P.S. I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower" in
>> this context Mr. Folayan. That term is usually used in reference to some
>> insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed
>> first-hand some malfeasance. Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this
>> description. Rather, we have labored as outsiders only. We have not
>> been privy to any "inside" information. Quite the opposite in fact. We
>> have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests
>> for information by AFRINIC staff.
>>
>> Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
>> reasonable
>> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.
>> Exactly
>> such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other
>> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists upon
>> request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such unredacted
>> WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were rejected
>> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved policy
>> was cited as the basis for the denial.
>>
>> At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate explanation
>> for
>> this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be
>> granted at long last. Certain portions of my research cannot be completed
>> without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis
>> for
>> the rejection of such requests.
>>
>>
>> P.P.S. As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the
>> numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place. I feel
>> compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been
>> double-victimized in at least two specific instances.
>>
>> First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4
>> blocks "liberated" from its free pool. Secondarily and even more
>> insultingly
>> however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also
>> arranged
>> to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be associated
>> with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other
>> legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4
>> allocations.
>>
>> I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15 block,
>> registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the
>> non-legacy
>> 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.
>> These
>> blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six million
>> U.S. dollars.
>>
>> As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD
>> mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as MEMBER-ONLY,
>> as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any
>> actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to
>> AFRINIC.
>>
>> I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this
>> regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it does
>> appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-
>> stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years
>> on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be due
>> on these IPv4 assignments.
>>
>> Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further
>> clarification
>> with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been
>> collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for
>> any year since their allocation to and association with the organizations
>> noted.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 11
>> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 17:24:26 -0800
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <19435.1575595466 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> In message <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>,
>> Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I know what sparked this story.
>>
>> If you have something to say, then you have our attention and the floor.
>> Please proceed.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> rfg
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 12
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 10:04:06 +0100
>> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Hi Sunday, all,
>>
>>
>>
>> I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let me
>> tell why.
>>
>>
>>
>> I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My first
>> AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly after,
>> during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could contribute to
>> the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and joining Ernest in his
>> trips to do the Registration Services training so I do IPv6 trainings.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos, I
>> was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the Madrid
>> Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from Sunday, I could
>> resolve that on the next day and flight again to do the training.
>>
>>
>>
>> My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,
>> and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been doing
>> those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been able to take
>> advantage of that.
>>
>>
>>
>> The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as well
>> as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much together,
>> you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost 15 years. Of
>> course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a hidden face. As
>> humans, we all have positive and negative things. But I?m really shocked, I
>> still resist to believe it.
>>
>>
>>
>> I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the position
>> of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use
>> your own name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe
>> someone,? may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to
>> appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly and
>> non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean he is
>> still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or something
>> similar.
>>
>>
>>
>> Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents. If
>> you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.
>>
>>
>>
>> So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and
>> may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
>> involvement an all this.
>>
>>
>>
>> Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal interest.
>> My only interest is to know the *real true* and I?m sure everybody agrees
>> on that.
>>
>>
>>
>> Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so no
>> doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very
>> thankful for that.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jordi
>>
>> @jordipalet
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com> escribi?:
>>
>>
>>
>> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest
>> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
>> space.
>>
>> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things done.
>> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are established,
>> the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for
>> their deeds.
>>
>> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
>> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
>> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active use,
>> why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the
>> common good?
>>
>> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
>> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.
>>
>> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf of
>> the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with
>> the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather
>> apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for
>> developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and
>> intellect.
>>
>> Sunday.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
>>
>> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
>> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>>
>>
>>
>> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and
>> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>>
>>
>>
>> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
>> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then
>> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
>> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes
>> may not have the desired outcome.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Completely agree with Sunday.
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>>
>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>>
>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
>> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Sunday.
>>
>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>>
>>
>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
>> news story.
>>
>>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> I will have more to say about this in due course. For the moment, I
>> only
>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen
>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> Regards,
>> rfg
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> --
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> Managing Director
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing
>> list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>> **********************************************
>> IPv4 is over
>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
>> http://www.theipv6company.com
>> The IPv6 Company
>>
>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of
>> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized
>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
>> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly
>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the
>> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or
>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including
>> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal
>> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this
>> communication and delete it.
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/e007b6dd/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 13
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:16:03 +0100
>> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>, General Discussions
>> of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>>
>> Dear Mr Guilmette,
>>
>> Regrettably, I do not monitor the press, but selected channels such as
>> this list. It seems I got your attention, or you got my attention, or we
>> both got each other's attention. Let us therefore maximize the possession.
>>
>> Important and interesting questions, that you have raised in this email.
>> Let us put some punch in it. Kindly change the TO: field to
>> ceo at afrinic.net, and cc the Community just to make sure it is not
>> ignored, then resend it. I am sure the CEO will answer all the questions
>> you here posed to me. Pity he has to start his tenure with these hard
>> nuts and curveballs, but he is capable. He speaks for the Company, not me.
>>
>> I am equally sure that the Community appreciates the great work done,
>> and no one supports the exposed fraud. You are a stakeholder, and not
>> some casual bystander so please note this. What you conveniently
>> ignored, is that the #1 accused company insider is the eye of the
>> company on the policy lists, where you raised the issues.
>>
>> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
>> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
>> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.
>> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
>>
>> My use of the term "Whistleblowers" is appropriate, as I looked at one
>> of your reference links, and indeed, someone confirmed to you privately
>> that your hunch is right. If you do not claim the honour, they should,
>> because you rightly built on their work!
>>
>> Great job you are doing.
>>
>> Have a great day.
>>
>> Sunday.
>>
>> On 05/12/2019 23:44, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> > In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,
>> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
>> >> done.
>> > Mr. Folayan,
>> >
>> > These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,
>> > 2019, a full three months ago. Since that time there has not been a
>> > single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,
>> > or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague
>> assurances
>> > that these matters are being looked into.
>> >
>> > Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns
>> > about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full
>> > three years ago.
>> >
>> >
>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html
>> >
>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html
>> >
>> > I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again
>> > repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,
>> > albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention
>> > paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any
>> > concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.
>> >
>> > https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html
>> > https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html
>> > https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html
>> >
>> > At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly
>> > in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive
>> > issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to
>> > entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it
>> > were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the
>> > courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za. Neither the board nor
>> > the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any
>> > clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will
>> > either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders
>> > and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive
>> > any of the findings that it may reach. And yet despite having had
>> > either three full months or three full years to look into these
>> > matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and
>> > despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming
>> > from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.
>> >
>> > This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the
>> > community's patience to come to an end? Does the community have any
>> > assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another
>> > three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield
>> > anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the
>> > current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions
>> > of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?
>> >
>> > On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at
>> long
>> > last be forthcoming?
>> >
>> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand
>> >> accountable for their deeds.
>> > This assertion on your part begs four further questions:
>> >
>> > 1) Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented
>> > in the MyBroadband.co.za article, the majority of which were drawn from
>> > publicly available sources including open government records, what more
>> > will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and
>> intentions
>> > are established"? What parts of the abundant documentary evidence
>> already
>> > presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?
>> >
>> > 2) If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za article, it can be
>> persuasively
>> > demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in
>> fact
>> > purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC
>> > itself is one of the aggrieved parties? And if so, would you hope and
>> > expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and
>> > all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?
>> >
>> > 3) Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and
>> endemic
>> > within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do
>> you
>> > have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all
>> > likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?
>> >
>> > 4) What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-
>> > documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from
>> > AFRINIC's own free pool? Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed
>> by
>> > AFRINIC? Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever
>> they
>> > may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty
>> > on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?
>> >
>> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
>> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
>> discover
>> >> the manipulations.
>> > On this point, you and I are in complete agreement. "The system", such
>> > as it is, is quite self-evidently broken. But this raises the further
>> > question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at
>> AFRINIC,
>> > while all of this was going on. Is it even plausible that a single bad
>> > actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars
>> > worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a
>> > several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC
>> > staff even noticed any of this?
>> >
>> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
>> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
>> now.
>> > See above. Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with
>> > respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself. No other
>> > single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much
>> > valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself. And yet we have, as yet, no
>> > clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff
>> > member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone
>> > that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated
>> > by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.
>> >
>> > If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.
>> >
>> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
>> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
>> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
>> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
>> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of
>> our
>> >> time and intellect.
>> > See above. With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we
>> > may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"? I
>> have
>> > so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any
>> > document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of
>> > AFRINIC. In fact, quite the opposite. I see that a purported three
>> > month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly
>> > reporting on so far. I see an attempt to shift the blame for this
>> colossal
>> > and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders
>> > while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of
>> > AFRINIC itself. I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action
>> > will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a
>> > backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general
>> > disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific
>> > national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.
>> >
>> > For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,
>> > Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.
>> > The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and
>> > to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or
>> placed
>> > under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to
>> all.
>> > AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding
>> responsibility.
>> >
>> > I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively
>> > remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing
>> > after-effects. I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now
>> > evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the
>> carpet
>> > will no longer be considered a vialble option.
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > rfg
>> >
>> >
>> > P.S. I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower"
>> in
>> > this context Mr. Folayan. That term is usually used in reference to
>> some
>> > insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed
>> > first-hand some malfeasance. Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this
>> > description. Rather, we have labored as outsiders only. We have not
>> > been privy to any "inside" information. Quite the opposite in fact. We
>> > have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests
>> > for information by AFRINIC staff.
>> >
>> > Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
>> reasonable
>> > requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.
>> Exactly
>> > such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other
>> > Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists
>> upon
>> > request. When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such
>> unredacted
>> > WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were
>> rejected
>> > out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved
>> policy
>> > was cited as the basis for the denial.
>> >
>> > At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate
>> explanation for
>> > this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be
>> > granted at long last. Certain portions of my research cannot be
>> completed
>> > without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis
>> for
>> > the rejection of such requests.
>> >
>> >
>> > P.P.S. As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the
>> > numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place. I feel
>> > compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been
>> > double-victimized in at least two specific instances.
>> >
>> > First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4
>> > blocks "liberated" from its free pool. Secondarily and even more
>> insultingly
>> > however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also
>> arranged
>> > to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be
>> associated
>> > with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other
>> > legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4
>> > allocations.
>> >
>> > I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15
>> block,
>> > registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the
>> non-legacy
>> > 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.
>> These
>> > blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six
>> million
>> > U.S. dollars.
>> >
>> > As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD
>> > mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as
>> MEMBER-ONLY,
>> > as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any
>> > actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to
>> > AFRINIC.
>> >
>> > I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this
>> > regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it
>> does
>> > appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-
>> > stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years
>> > on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be
>> due
>> > on these IPv4 assignments.
>> >
>> > Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further
>> clarification
>> > with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been
>> > collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for
>> > any year since their allocation to and association with the
>> organizations
>> > noted.
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>> --
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> Managing Director
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 14
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:07:01 -0800
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <21084.1575626821 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Mr. Folayan,
>>
>> Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful response.
>>
>> At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond
>> what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.
>>
>>
>> In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,
>> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
>> >conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
>> >honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.
>> >It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
>>
>> Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.
>>
>> Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see
>> the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC. That is quite certainly not a
>> goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as
>> you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder
>> should wish for. AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global
>> Internet governance. I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.
>> No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a
>> few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second. And to use an
>> even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing
>> smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than
>> I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.
>>
>> If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being
>> formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested
>> that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already
>> sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being
>> preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere. Now I may stand on the comfortable
>> shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but
>> I do not question the utility of the journey.
>>
>> The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters
>> of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose. Time will
>> tell if that is an accurate assesment.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> rfg
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 15
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:14:31 +0100
>> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>, General
>> Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>>
>> Good points Jordi, and thanks for the throwback on the very many amazing
>> sacrifices we all made, to grow the Internet in Africa.
>>
>> I will resist asking Ernest to defend himself here, We are not
>> constituted as a competent jury, neither do we want to compromise the
>> ongoing investigations.
>>
>> Questions are appropriate, so will be his own admissions or rebuttals,
>> when the investigations are completed.
>>
>> I may be wrong, but that is my own expectations and position.
>>
>> Sunday.
>>
>> On 06/12/2019 10:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Sunday, all,
>> >
>> > I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let
>> > me tell why.
>> >
>> > I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My
>> > first AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly
>> > after, during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could
>> > contribute to the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and
>> > joining Ernest in his trips to do the Registration Services training
>> > so I do IPv6 trainings.
>> >
>> > Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos,
>> > I was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the
>> > Madrid Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from
>> > Sunday, I could resolve that on the next day and flight again to do
>> > the training.
>> >
>> > My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,
>> > and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been
>> > doing those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been
>> > able to take advantage of that.
>> >
>> > The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as
>> > well as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much
>> > together, you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost
>> > 15 years. Of course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a
>> > hidden face. As humans, we all have positive and negative things. But
>> > I?m really shocked, I still resist to believe it.
>> >
>> > I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the
>> > position of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think
>> > you will use your own name for registering companies, or instead you
>> > will bribe someone, may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your
>> > family name to appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly
>> > and non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean
>> > he is still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or
>> > something similar.
>> >
>> > Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents.
>> > If you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.
>> >
>> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
>> > and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
>> > involvement an all this.
>> >
>> > Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal
>> > interest. My only interest is to know the **real true** and I?m sure
>> > everybody agrees on that.
>> >
>> > Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so
>> > no doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very
>> > thankful for that.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Jordi
>> >
>> > @jordipalet
>> >
>> > El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com
>> > <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> escribi?:
>> >
>> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway
>> > suggest that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only
>> > on legacy space.
>> >
>> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
>> > done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> > established, the law should take its course and people should stand
>> > accountable for their deeds.
>> >
>> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of
>> > 7 years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
>> > discover the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or
>> > in active use, why would or should they not have been returned to the
>> > Registry for the common good?
>> >
>> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their
>> > legal department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with
>> > gusto by now.
>> >
>> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
>> > of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
>> > with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
>> > rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
>> > available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of
>> > our time and intellect.
>> >
>> > Sunday.
>> >
>> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
>> >
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there
>> > appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy
>> > space.
>> >
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the
>> > problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then
>> > moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired
>> > outcome.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
>> > <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >
>> > Mark.
>> >
>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >
>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically
>> > ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet
>> > in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces
>> > under some form of RSA?
>> >
>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let
>> > us see how to help and empower the people doing useful
>> > work for Africa.
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > Sunday.
>> >
>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >
>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think
>> > about the following
>> > news story.
>> >
>> >
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >
>> > ? I will have more to say about this in due course.?
>> > For the moment, I only
>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by
>> > myself and Jan Vermeulen
>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> > ? ? Regards,
>> > rfg
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> > --
>> > --------------------------------------------------
>> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> > Managing Director
>> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> > Email:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>,
>> sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> > ---------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss
>> > mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> > **********************************************
>> > IPv4 is over
>> > Are you ready for the new Internet ?
>> > http://www.theipv6company.com
>> > The IPv6 Company
>> >
>> > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged
>> > or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive
>> > use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty
>> > authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of
>> > this information, even if partially, including attached files, is
>> > strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you
>> > are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,
>> > distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if
>> > partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be
>> > considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original
>> > sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>> --
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> Managing Director
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/8c6c63d5/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 16
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 12:17:52 +0200
>> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>
>> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 6 Dec 2019, at 11:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <
>> community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
>> and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
>> involvement an all this.
>> >
>>
>>
>> :-) Might as well setup a confession booth and provide absolution of
>> souls. On a serious note, we need a proper investigation. Let?s wait to
>> hear from the CEO
>>
>> Omo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/4e0f75fc/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 17
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:21:40 +0100
>> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>, General Discussions
>> of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>>
>> Dear Mr Guilmette,
>>
>> On 06/12/2019 11:07, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> > Mr. Folayan,
>> >
>> > Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful
>> response.
>> >
>> > At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond
>> > what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.
>> >
>> >
>> > In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,
>> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
>> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
>> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking
>> stakeholder.
>> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
>> > Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.
>> >
>> > Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see
>> > the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC. That is quite certainly not a
>> > goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as
>> > you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder
>> > should wish for. AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global
>> > Internet governance. I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.
>> > No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a
>> > few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second. And to use an
>> > even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing
>> > smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than
>> > I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.
>> >
>> > If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being
>> > formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested
>> > that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already
>> > sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being
>> > preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere. Now I may stand on the comfortable
>> > shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but
>> > I do not question the utility of the journey.
>> >
>> > The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters
>> > of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose. Time will
>> > tell if that is an accurate assesment.
>>
>>
>> This is most assuring and comforting at the same time.
>>
>> If I have sounded off-key, please accept my sincere apologies, and thank
>> you very much for the good job you have done for the community so far.
>> History will never forget your role and progressive disposition at this
>> point in time.
>>
>> When AfriNIC was being formed, the challenges of today, were not
>> envisioned in the very many ways that they now present themselves.
>> Africa has come a long way. Unfortunately, there are still many more
>> oceans to cross, but we will all band together as a purposeful fleet.
>> That is how we can all weather the storms that may come, but sure they
>> will come.
>>
>> With kind Regards ...
>>
>> Sunday.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 18
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:58:27 -0800
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <21283.1575629907 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> In message <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>,
>> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:
>>
>> >I also believe that he is a smart guy.
>>
>> I would not dispute that characterization in the slightest.
>>
>> >So, put yourself in the position of
>> >a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use
>> your o
>> >wn name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe
>> someone,=C2=A0
>> > may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear in
>> an
>> >y documents? I feel this is really silly and non-understandable.
>>
>> And yet it seemed to work, for years on end, with no one raising so much
>> as an eyebrow because nobody seriously investigated or seriously looked
>> at all of the relevant corporate documents and WHOIS records and, in
>> particular, the historical WHOIS records, including but not limited to
>> these ones:
>>
>> ORG-AI2-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD
>> ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB
>> ORG-IA41-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP
>> ORG-ZZ139-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW
>> ORG-ZZ23-AFRINIC https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N
>>
>> I have been chasing down miscreants on the Internet for more than 20 years
>> now. One of the lessons I have learned in that time is that none of them
>> are ten feet tall, and the majority of them absolutely suck at OPSEC. It
>> is almost as if some part of them is deluding their own brains into the
>> false belief that what they are doing is not really wrong, in some
>> sense, and that they are somehow actually entitled to the stuff they are
>> stealing, and that thus, at some level, they don't actually need to hide
>> what they are doing all that throughly, because just as White House Chief
>> of Staff Mick Mulvaney did not long ago... much to the shock of
>> everyone...
>> if they are ever caught and confronted they assume that they will just say
>> "Yea. So? We do that all of the time. Get over it!"
>>
>> >So maybe
>> >somebody used him, which doesn=E2=80=99t mean he is still guilty
>> =E2=80=9Cin
>> >vigilando=E2=80=9D because he trusted anyone else, or something similar.
>>
>> It's a nice thought, and you are a generous person to allow this
>> possibility
>> Jordi. All I can say is that other information, not yet made public,
>> appears to rule out the possibility that Mr. Byaruhanga was either an
>> unwitting stooge or a convenient fall guy.
>>
>> >Do we believe in =E2=80=9Cpresumption of innocence=E2=80=9D? I do,
>> despite
>> >documents. If you don=E2=80=99t know the complete background, documents
>> may
>> >not be enough.
>>
>> I agree.
>>
>> That having been said, I hope that you will, as I have, spend some time
>> carefully scrutinizing both the current and historical WHOIS records
>> associated with the ORGanizations and the IPv4 blocks listed in the two
>> tables in Jan's article. If you do that, I think that you will be, as
>> I was, hard pressed to explain all of the quite glaring anomalies in
>> any way that does not involve a great deal of very deliberate malfesance
>> on somebody's part. Once you are convinced of that, then the question
>> becomes: Who is responsible? And it is at that point that the various
>> official governmental corporate registration records would seem to become
>> very relevant.
>>
>> >So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and
>> >may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
>> involvement
>> >an all this.
>>
>> I would like to echo that sentiment.
>>
>> Jan Vermeulen and myself have tried, repeatedly, and over some significant
>> time now to reach him, both via voice, at a number of different phone
>> numbers
>> that we have identified as being associated with him, and also via email,
>> at various of his known email addresses, and we have been utterly unable
>> to
>> do so. We both very much look forward to speaking with him and getting
>> his
>> side of the story, if he has one.
>>
>> That having been said, we cannot be blamed, I think, for reaching certain
>> reasonable conclusions when Jan's industry sources informed him, less than
>> a day after I had attempted to confront Ernest, via email, with the facts
>> arrayed against him, that he had abruptly resigned his position at AFRINIC
>> after 15 years on the job.
>>
>> His abrupt resignation was and remains his only apparent response to our
>> inquiries.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> rfg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 19
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 03:16:57 -0800
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <21648.1575631017 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> In message <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>,
>> Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On a serious note, we need a proper investigation. Let's
>> >wait to hear from the CEO
>>
>> Have any of us been doing otherwise, for lo these past three months now?
>>
>> Have we been afforded any other choice in the matter?
>>
>> Can AFRINIC clean its own stables?
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> rfg
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1
>> *************************************************
>>
>
>
> --
> *Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb*
> *muyiwacaleb at gmail.com <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>*
> *234 - 8077377378*
> *234 - 07030777969*
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191210/5dbbab9c/attachment.html>
More information about the Community-Discuss
mailing list