[rpd] More confusion from Noah

[Noah]

On Sun, 4 Jul 2021, 12:41 Paul Hjul, <hjul.paul at gmail.com> wrote:


> Firstly I'd appreciate it if you didn't mail me personally but rather kept

> the discussion properly within the group.

>


What are you talking about?...  its common practise for "reply to all" to
includes the email address of the person, a participant on the list is
responding too and the mailing list address as well...




I note the carbon copy to the group so I would see what is commented

> without it being sent additionally to my inbox.

>


This very rpd list was in cc of that email response to you...

People who act in good faith are welcome to email me separately if they

> want to have a more personal discussion but I don't like emails from bad

> faith actors, crooks or liars.

>


What are you talking about?



> But let us unpack:

>

>

> The constitution (Bylaws) states the objectives clearly on what is

> expected from resource members.

>

> The bylaws (as amended as late as 2020 - and quite deleteriously so)

> requires this from resource members:

>

> 6.4) Resource Member - A legal entity (local Internet registry or

> end-site) shall be deemed to be a Resource Member of AFRINIC after it has

> completed the following formalities cumulatively:

>

>    1. justified its need for the right to use Internet Number Resources

>    to AFRINIC;

>    2. signed AFRINIC’s Registration Service Agreement; and

>    3. paid the relevant setup and membership fees related to Internet

>    Number Resources allocated/assigned to it by AFRINIC Registration Service.

>

>


You skipped section 3.4 of the very bylaws which among other things reads
as below...

3.4) The Company shall have, both within and outside the Republic of
Mauritius, full capacity to carry and/or undertake any business or
activity, including but not limited to the following objects:

   1. to provide the service of allocating and registering Internet
   resources for the purposes of enabling communications via open system
   network protocols and to assist in the development and growth of the
   Internet in the African region;
   2. to promote the representation of AFRINIC membership and the Internet
   community of the African region by ensuring open and transparent
   communication and consensus-driven decision-making processes;
   3. to promote responsible management of Internet resources throughout
   the African region, as well as the responsible development and operation of
   Internet infrastructures;



So everything turns on what the services agreement posits is the nature of

> the allocation of resources. The agreement which I've got signed even after

> amendments and variations by Afrinic posits that the organization I

> represent as a member is a for profit private limited liability company

> incorporated under the laws of the Republic of South Africa. It is a

> commercial entity, it is in the business of for commercial benefit entering

> into commercial agreements to achieve a profit objective. Afrinic is in

> terms of that agreement a non-commercial entity. It has a strictly

> non-profit motive. It has a strict duty to allocate resources, there is no

> power given to re-distribute.

>


AFRINIC objectives in the bylaws section 3.4 are clear in subsections 1 and
3...below...

3.4) The Company shall have, both within and outside the Republic of
Mauritius, full capacity to carry and/or undertake any business or
activity, including but not limited to the following objects:

   1. to provide the service of allocating and registering Internet
   resources for the purposes of enabling communications via open system
   network protocols and to assist in the development and growth of the
   Internet in the African region;
   2. ..........
   3. to promote responsible management of Internet resources throughout
   the African region, as well as the responsible development and operation of
   Internet infrastructures;

Its therefore AFRINIC role to ensure responsible management of Internet
Resources after they have allocated them to its members who are defined in
section section 6.4 which you quoted above.




> The regulation (CPM) then empowers the organisation to carry out

> allocations and assignments as guided by the constitution.

>

> Exactly, the CPM etc ... provides for the allocation not the

> re-distribution, not the micromanagement and above all not the leasing of

> those resources by Afrinic on a commercial basis. The undertaking of

> management of entering into commercial agreements whether for profit or not

> for profit is determined by the member

>

> You appear to read the power of allocation as being a power of

> re-distribution and of changing the goal posts of what constitutes need.

> This of course is designed to create a situation where internal political

> intrigue and inevitably corruption comes to determine "winners" and

> "losers", reputable organizations which require address resources will

> eschew the African market and the problems for investment that this

> eschewing brings will continue.

>

> The bylaws and RSA very clearly talk about the commercial relationship of

> number resources, what they say is that Afrinic is not to be in the

> business of undertaking commercial activities of assigning number resources

> for commercial ends (it is in the business of allocating number resources

> to LIRs and to making direct non-commercial assignments).

>



AFRINIC must also ensure responsible management of those very number
resources and that is the basis for need-based allocation and assignment
for the purpose defined in Bylaws section 3.4 subsection 1.

Its AFRINIC responsibility to support the development of Internet
Infrascture in AFRICA as her service region and this is why AFRINIC was
formed and the Org has played that fundamental role and must continue to as
its her responsibility to manage INR for the best interest of AFRICA.


The lease (temporary assignment or allocation of the use of an asset or

> resource for a defined period of time) by Afrinic is non-commercial, the

> lease by the LIR to customers is generally (but not always, you can have a

> non-commercial LIR) commercial.

>

> The problem is that some in Afrinic believe that this means that liars,

> bullies and thieves can under the aegis of Afrinic undertake the pillaging

> as was done by your good friend Ernest (and you yourself call him your

> friend:

> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2020-December/003814.html

> ).

>


I know Ernest very well FYI and just like Ernest i know so many other folks
who work at AFRINIC who I consider great friends. The Man's mistakes are
what they are but I won't pretend to not know him having interacted with
him for years as a good friend. Did I know what was happening, Nop.... I
did not, because I dont work at AFRINIC.

Please visit a court room one of this days and you will meet defendants who
actually have family members and friends.... Those who know me well, no one
thing about me... I don't pretend and am no hypocrite.

So yes, being a friend or a next of kin to an offender does not make one an
offender.

So take a chill pill.....dude.



> I am quite pleased to see that the discourse from Andrew Alston about

> commercialization of intergers has entered the floor. Of course this entire

> thing boils down to the simple question of "who commercializes the

> integers" and the answer is LIRs.

>


LIR provide IP based services like connectivity, hosting and domain
naming/dns services to their customers.

They archive the above by assigning integers to some network interface card
with e.g ethernet ports on a L2 or L3 gear.

The commercialization is therefore on the services and not the integers
themselves.

The services are what customers seek and not integers than enable to
provision of IP based services.

Noah





> On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 at 09:00, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:

>

>>

>>

>> On Sat, 3 Jul 2021, 17:50 Paul Hjul, <hjul.paul at gmail.com> wrote:

>>

>>> I am not exactly sure how you anticipate the Internet to work if address

>>> space isn't leased to the controller of an end point.

>>>

>>> The last time I checked DHCP is entirely built around leasing - the

>>> allocation of a resource for a definite period of time. Allocation,

>>> assignment and leasing all have quite context relevant specific meanings.

>>>

>>> It may help to clearly speak of commercial leasing activity - that is

>>> the allocation of a resource by the holder of the resource in exchange for

>>> a fee as part of commercial activity.

>>>

>>

>> The constitution (Bylaws) states the objectives clearly on what is

>> expected from resource members.

>>

>> The regulation (CPM) then empowers the organisation to carry out

>> allocations and assignments as guided by the constitution.

>>

>> The agreement (RSA) enforces the constitution and the regulations.

>>

>> PS: DHCP is an open system protocol that enables network services.

>> Network services require infrastructure. The leasing is then done on some

>> infrastructure with the end goal of providing connectivity services based

>> on need/request of each host.

>>

>> The Bylaws talk about the above scenario of allocating integers to

>> support development of open systems protocol network services.

>>

>> It doesn't talk about commercialisation of integers. Nor does the CPM.

>>

>> Cheers,

>> Noah

>>

>> _______________________________________________

> RPD mailing list

> RPD at afrinic.net

> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd

>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/attachments/20210704/a2d86393/attachment-0001.html>