<div dir="auto"><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, 4 Jul 2021, 12:41 Paul Hjul, <<a href="mailto:hjul.paul@gmail.com">hjul.paul@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Firstly I'd appreciate it if you didn't mail me personally but rather kept the discussion properly within the group.</div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">What are you talking about?... its common practise for "reply to all" to includes the email address of the person, a participant on the list is responding too and the mailing list address as well...</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div> I note the carbon copy to the group so I would see what is commented without it being sent additionally to my inbox. </div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">This very rpd list was in cc of that email response to you...</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>People who act in good faith are welcome to email me separately if they want to have a more personal discussion but I don't like emails from bad faith actors, crooks or liars.</div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">What are you talking about?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>But let us unpack:</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div>The constitution (Bylaws) states the objectives clearly on what is expected from resource members.</div></blockquote><div>The bylaws (as amended as late as 2020 - and quite deleteriously so) requires this from resource members:</div><div><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 5px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14px">6.4) Resource Member - A legal entity (local Internet registry or end-site) shall be deemed to be a Resource Member of AFRINIC after it has completed the following formalities cumulatively:</p><ol style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:10px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14px;list-style-type:lower-roman"><li style="box-sizing:border-box">justified its need for the right to use Internet Number Resources to AFRINIC;</li><li style="box-sizing:border-box">signed AFRINIC’s Registration Service Agreement; and</li><li style="box-sizing:border-box">paid the relevant setup and membership fees related to Internet Number Resources allocated/assigned to it by AFRINIC Registration Service.</li></ol></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">You skipped section 3.4 of the very bylaws which among other things reads as below...</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><p style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">3.4) The Company shall have, both within and outside the Republic of Mauritius, full capacity to carry and/or undertake any business or activity, including but not limited to the following objects:</p><ol style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><li>to provide the service of allocating and registering Internet resources for the purposes of enabling communications via open system network protocols and to assist in the development and growth of the Internet in the African region;</li><li>to promote the representation of AFRINIC membership and the Internet community of the African region by ensuring open and transparent communication and consensus-driven decision-making processes;</li><li>to promote responsible management of Internet resources throughout the African region, as well as the responsible development and operation of Internet infrastructures; </li></ol></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>So everything turns on what the services agreement posits is the nature of the allocation of resources. The agreement which I've got signed even after amendments and variations by Afrinic posits that the organization I represent as a member is a for profit private limited liability company incorporated under the laws of the Republic of South Africa. It is a commercial entity, it is in the business of for commercial benefit entering into commercial agreements to achieve a profit objective. Afrinic is in terms of that agreement a non-commercial entity. It has a strictly non-profit motive. It has a strict duty to allocate resources, there is no power given to re-distribute.</div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">AFRINIC objectives in the bylaws section 3.4 are clear in subsections 1 and 3...below...</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><p style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">3.4) The Company shall have, both within and outside the Republic of Mauritius, full capacity to carry and/or undertake any business or activity, including but not limited to the following objects:</p><ol style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><li>to provide the service of allocating and registering Internet resources for the purposes of enabling communications via open system network protocols and to assist in the development and growth of the Internet in the African region;</li><li>..........</li><li>to promote responsible management of Internet resources throughout the African region, as well as the responsible development and operation of Internet infrastructures; </li></ol></div><div dir="auto">Its therefore AFRINIC role to ensure responsible management of Internet Resources after they have allocated them to its members who are defined in section section 6.4 which you quoted above.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div>The regulation (CPM) then empowers the organisation to carry out allocations and assignments as guided by the constitution.</div></blockquote>Exactly, the CPM etc ... provides for the allocation not the re-distribution, not the micromanagement and above all not the leasing of those resources by Afrinic on a commercial basis. The undertaking of management of entering into commercial agreements whether for profit or not for profit is determined by the member<div><br></div><div>You appear to read the power of allocation as being a power of re-distribution and of changing the goal posts of what constitutes need. This of course is designed to create a situation where internal political intrigue and inevitably corruption comes to determine "winners" and "losers", reputable organizations which require address resources will eschew the African market and the problems for investment that this eschewing brings will continue. <br><div><div><br></div><div>The bylaws and RSA very clearly talk about the commercial relationship of number resources, what they say is that Afrinic is not to be in the business of undertaking commercial activities of assigning number resources for commercial ends (it is in the business of allocating number resources to LIRs and to making direct non-commercial assignments). </div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">AFRINIC must also ensure responsible management of those very number resources and that is the basis for need-based allocation and assignment for the purpose defined in Bylaws section 3.4 subsection 1.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Its AFRINIC responsibility to support the development of Internet Infrascture in AFRICA as her service region and this is why AFRINIC was formed and the Org has played that fundamental role and must continue to as its her responsibility to manage INR for the best interest of AFRICA.</div><div dir="auto"> </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>The lease (temporary assignment or allocation of the use of an asset or resource for a defined period of time) by Afrinic is non-commercial, the lease by the LIR to customers is generally (but not always, you can have a non-commercial LIR) commercial.</div><div><br></div><div>The problem is that some in Afrinic believe that this means that liars, bullies and thieves can under the aegis of Afrinic undertake the pillaging as was done by your good friend Ernest (and you yourself call him your friend: <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2020-December/003814.html" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2020-December/003814.html</a>).</div><div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I know Ernest very well FYI and just like Ernest i know so many other folks who work at AFRINIC who I consider great friends. The Man's mistakes are what they are but I won't pretend to not know him having interacted with him for years as a good friend. Did I know what was happening, Nop.... I did not, because I dont work at AFRINIC.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Please visit a court room one of this days and you will meet defendants who actually have family members and friends.... Those who know me well, no one thing about me... I don't pretend and am no hypocrite.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So yes, being a friend or a next of kin to an offender does not make one an offender.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So take a chill pill.....dude.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><br></div><div>I am quite pleased to see that the discourse from Andrew Alston about commercialization of intergers has entered the floor. Of course this entire thing boils down to the simple question of "who commercializes the integers" and the answer is LIRs.</div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">LIR provide IP based services like connectivity, hosting and domain naming/dns services to their customers.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">They archive the above by assigning integers to some network interface card with e.g ethernet ports on a L2 or L3 gear.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The commercialization is therefore on the services and not the integers themselves.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The services are what customers seek and not integers than enable to provision of IP based services.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Noah</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 at 09:00, Noah <<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">noah@neo.co.tz</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, 3 Jul 2021, 17:50 Paul Hjul, <<a href="mailto:hjul.paul@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">hjul.paul@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I am not exactly sure how you anticipate the Internet to work if address space isn't leased to the controller of an end point.<div><br></div><div>The last time I checked DHCP is entirely built around leasing - the allocation of a resource for a definite period of time. Allocation, assignment and leasing all have quite context relevant specific meanings.</div><div><br></div><div>It may help to clearly speak of commercial leasing activity - that is the allocation of a resource by the holder of the resource in exchange for a fee as part of commercial activity.</div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The constitution (Bylaws) states the objectives clearly on what is expected from resource members.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The regulation (CPM) then empowers the organisation to carry out allocations and assignments as guided by the constitution.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The agreement (RSA) enforces the constitution and the regulations.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">PS: DHCP is an open system protocol that enables network services. Network services require infrastructure. The leasing is then done on some infrastructure with the end goal of providing connectivity services based on need/request of each host.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The Bylaws talk about the above scenario of allocating integers to support development of open systems protocol network services.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">It doesn't talk about commercialisation of integers. Nor does the CPM.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Cheers,</div><div dir="auto">Noah</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"></div></div>
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