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[rpd] More confusion from Noah

Paul Hjul hjul.paul at
Sun Jul 4 09:32:24 UTC 2021

Firstly I'd appreciate it if you didn't mail me personally but rather kept
the discussion properly within the group. I note the carbon copy to the
group so I would see what is commented without it being sent additionally
to my inbox. People who act in good faith are welcome to email me
separately if they want to have a more personal discussion but I don't like
emails from bad faith actors, crooks or liars.

But let us unpack:

The constitution (Bylaws) states the objectives clearly on what is expected
from resource members.

The bylaws (as amended as late as 2020 - and quite deleteriously so)
requires this from resource members:

6.4) Resource Member - A legal entity (local Internet registry or end-site)
shall be deemed to be a Resource Member of AFRINIC after it has completed
the following formalities cumulatively:

1. justified its need for the right to use Internet Number Resources to
2. signed AFRINIC’s Registration Service Agreement; and
3. paid the relevant setup and membership fees related to Internet
Number Resources allocated/assigned to it by AFRINIC Registration Service.

So everything turns on what the services agreement posits is the nature of
the allocation of resources. The agreement which I've got signed even after
amendments and variations by Afrinic posits that the organization I
represent as a member is a for profit private limited liability company
incorporated under the laws of the Republic of South Africa. It is a
commercial entity, it is in the business of for commercial benefit entering
into commercial agreements to achieve a profit objective. Afrinic is in
terms of that agreement a non-commercial entity. It has a strictly
non-profit motive. It has a strict duty to allocate resources, there is no
power given to re-distribute.

The regulation (CPM) then empowers the organisation to carry out
allocations and assignments as guided by the constitution.

Exactly, the CPM etc ... provides for the allocation not the
re-distribution, not the micromanagement and above all not the leasing of
those resources by Afrinic on a commercial basis. The undertaking of
management of entering into commercial agreements whether for profit or not
for profit is determined by the member

You appear to read the power of allocation as being a power of
re-distribution and of changing the goal posts of what constitutes need.
This of course is designed to create a situation where internal political
intrigue and inevitably corruption comes to determine "winners" and
"losers", reputable organizations which require address resources will
eschew the African market and the problems for investment that this
eschewing brings will continue.

The bylaws and RSA very clearly talk about the commercial relationship of
number resources, what they say is that Afrinic is not to be in the
business of undertaking commercial activities of assigning number resources
for commercial ends (it is in the business of allocating number resources
to LIRs and to making direct non-commercial assignments). The lease
(temporary assignment or allocation of the use of an asset or resource for
a defined period of time) by Afrinic is non-commercial, the lease by the
LIR to customers is generally (but not always, you can have a
non-commercial LIR) commercial.

The problem is that some in Afrinic believe that this means that liars,
bullies and thieves can under the aegis of Afrinic undertake the pillaging
as was done by your good friend Ernest (and you yourself call him your

I am quite pleased to see that the discourse from Andrew Alston about
commercialization of intergers has entered the floor. Of course this entire
thing boils down to the simple question of "who commercializes the
integers" and the answer is LIRs.

On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 at 09:00, Noah <noah at> wrote:



> On Sat, 3 Jul 2021, 17:50 Paul Hjul, <hjul.paul at> wrote:


>> I am not exactly sure how you anticipate the Internet to work if address

>> space isn't leased to the controller of an end point.


>> The last time I checked DHCP is entirely built around leasing - the

>> allocation of a resource for a definite period of time. Allocation,

>> assignment and leasing all have quite context relevant specific meanings.


>> It may help to clearly speak of commercial leasing activity - that is the

>> allocation of a resource by the holder of the resource in exchange for a

>> fee as part of commercial activity.



> The constitution (Bylaws) states the objectives clearly on what is

> expected from resource members.


> The regulation (CPM) then empowers the organisation to carry out

> allocations and assignments as guided by the constitution.


> The agreement (RSA) enforces the constitution and the regulations.


> PS: DHCP is an open system protocol that enables network services. Network

> services require infrastructure. The leasing is then done on some

> infrastructure with the end goal of providing connectivity services based

> on need/request of each host.


> The Bylaws talk about the above scenario of allocating integers to support

> development of open systems protocol network services.


> It doesn't talk about commercialisation of integers. Nor does the CPM.


> Cheers,

> Noah



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