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[rpd] Policy Compliance Dashboard

Jaco Kroon jaco at uls.co.za
Thu Sep 17 12:08:42 UTC 2020


Hi,

Thanks Mark.  Could not have said it better myself.

I'm also in support.

Kind Regards,
Jaco

On 2020/09/17 10:12, Mark Elkins wrote:


> I agree with this policy (and as such, with Jordi). Automation is

> almost always a good thing. I also try and automate as much as

> possible so I get just get notified by exceptions - so I do less work

> - and have a better system. Being a good citizen of AFRINIC, I'd much

> prefer finding out something I am not complying with via an automated

> system rather than having AFRINIC staff wasting their time in talking

> to me about my problem. When such a problem is reported to me, I

> expect it will also point to appropriate solutions. I can then get on

> and quietly fix the problem.

>

> On 2020/09/17 09:56, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:

>>

>> Hi Marius,

>>

>>  

>>

>> The policy doesn’t change how AFRINIC operate the services, just

>> improve them, and what is more important, tell AFRINIC, “you should

>> automate it as much as possible” and it is in the benefit of the

>> community (which is what is the PDP is for) because it provides

>> automated reports and notifications.

>>

>>  

>>

>> To prove that your point is not necessarily correct, some folks had

>> the opinion, when I presented the M&A proposal in the previous

>> meeting, that it was an “operational” issue. Now you agree with me

>> that it is a policy thing. It all depends on which lenses you look at

>> it, but the point is that the board has the last word. If the board

>> believes it an operational issue, then they will bring back the

>> proposal to the discussion or even suggest that we withdraw it.

>>

>>  

>>

>> Objecting with a personal opinion (“it is operational”) is not a

>> valid objection. Otherwise, anyone can object to **any** policy proposal.

>>

>>  

>>

>> Same with the cost, can you demonstarte what is the cost of doing

>> manually this vs automating it? Just to prove your point. And again

>> note that if the cost were an issue AFRINIC will tell us in the

>> impact analysis “this is going to double our buget, we will need

>> 1.000 more members, or increase the fees to pay for it”, which they

>> didn’t told. They just talked about more resources to develop it

>> (once), which needs to be compensated with the savings once

>> implemented (forever!).

>>

>>  

>>

>> And as I already explained, the implementation can be done step by

>> step, not all the CPM in a single shoot, so the resources can be

>> split across several months or even years.

>>

>>  

>>

>> Last but not least AFRINIC board has to ratify the policy. That’s why

>> cost is not part of the PDP discussion, because the cost is

>> membership, not community and the board can bring back the policy to

>> discussion if the cost is not acceptable for the membership.

>>

>>  

>>

>> Regards,

>>

>> Jordi

>>

>> @jordipalet

>>

>>  

>>

>>  

>>

>>  

>>

>> El 17/9/20 9:34, "Marius Andioc via RPD" <rpd at afrinic.net

>> <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>> escribió:

>>

>>  

>>

>> Hi Frank,

>>

>>  

>>

>> Sorry I should have maybe translated it in both languages! Here is my

>> point (Answering to previous messages) :

>>

>>  

>>

>> I oppose this policy for two reasons. 

>>

>>  

>>

>> Regarding the nature of this proposal, it's just an operation

>> measure, a decision about how Afrinic operate and provides service. I

>> believe this is not part of our prerogatives and we should focus on

>> actual policies, not deal with Afrinic's services/products. Deciding

>> whether we should transfer or not, how we should proceed with M&A or

>> the election process are policies, this dashboard is a service, not

>> part of internet governance. 

>>

>>  

>>

>> Concerning the cost issue, I think contrary to what some have raised,

>> it is very much part of the issue. Rather than saying that it's too

>> costly or that it's absolute cost is too high, it's about a

>> cost/benefits point of view that this policy is not worth it.

>> Benefits are minor or at least not proven to be more than something

>> close to 0 as Afrinic is already doing the job. If the policy was

>> free of our constraint and we just had to tick a box on an app almost

>> no one would oppose it (even if results are 0 it wouldn't cost any

>> time, money, energy), but it's not the case. And opting for a policy

>> that has a cost is also potentially depriving us of another one over

>> time, it's just about avoiding waste in a policy that doesn't have

>> much benefits. 

>>

>>  

>>

>> I hope this clarify things? 

>>

>>  

>>

>> Thank you for your question, I'll try to send my messages in both

>> languages as possible! 

>>

>>  

>>

>> Have an excellent day, 

>>

>>  

>>

>> Marius 

>>

>>  

>>

>> Le 17 sept. 2020 14:25, Frank Habicht <geier at geier.ne.tz> a écrit :

>>

>> Hi,

>>

>> If I understand right (Google translate...), then you say that

>> - it is not for this PDWG, but AfriNIC staff internally to decide

>> - given funds, time and practical possibility, you support this to be

>>    done

>>

>> right?

>>

>> Thanks,

>> Frank

>>

>> On 17/09/2020 04:35, Marius Andioc via RPD wrote:

>> > Bonjour, 

>> >

>> > Concernant le coût, je pense qu'au contraire celui-ci doit

>> rentrer en

>> > ligne de compte. Le principe d'un choix, d'un trade off, est

>> que nous

>> > aurons à choisir une politique plutôt qu'une autre (si ce n'est pas

>> > immédiat c'est un choix entre cette politique aujourd'hui et

>> une autre

>> > demain). 

>> > Les moyens d'AFRINIC ne sont pas illimités, nous avons tout

>> intérêt à

>> > choisir avec prudence ce qui est réalisé. Ici plus que le coût de

>> > manière absolue, c'est le rapport coût/0 ou très peu de

>> bénéfice qui

>> > m'évoque un simple gaspillage (de temps, de moyens et

>> d'énergie, pas

>> > uniquement une question de coût chiffré). 

>> > Pour résumer : le coût en lui même n'est pas tant un problème,

>> mais le

>> > rapport coût / bénéfice en est un. Si cette politique ne

>> nécessitait

>> > qu'une case à cocher dans une application pour se réaliser il

>> n'y aurait

>> > pas ou peu d'opposition. 

>> > Je souhaite enfin rajouter que les modalités opérationnelles et les

>> > services d'AFRINIC ne sont pas de notre ressort. Nous devons nous

>> > concentrer sur son rôle: celui de registre. Cette proposition

>> n'est pas

>> > une politique mais une proposition opérationnelle et elle n'a

>> donc pas

>> > grand chose à faire ici. 

>> >

>> > Je vous souhaite une excellente journée, 

>> >

>> > Marius Andioc 

>> >

>> > Le 16 sept. 2020 22:58, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD

>> <rpd at afrinic.net> a

>> > écrit :

>> >

>> >     The RSA is an overall umbrella set by the members, and is

>> not complete.

>> >

>> >      

>> >

>> >     The PDP is a higher-level set by the community, as complete

>> as we wish.

>> >

>> >      

>> >

>> >     I think many participants still get confused with that. The PDP

>> >     state what rules the community want to be followed,

>> verified, etc.

>> >

>> >      

>> >

>> >     The PDP affects **all**, while the RSA only affects members.

>> >

>> >      

>> >

>> >     The community is on **top** of the membership. So, the

>> community is

>> >     free to agree on rules **over the RSA**, especially when

>> the RSA is

>> >     not sufficiently clear.

>> >

>> >      

>> >

>> >     And one more point that I was not able to respond in the

>> chat. The

>> >     PDP, and thus the policy proposals, can’t consider **cost** (I

>> >     disagree that this will be a too high cost), because the

>> cost is a

>> >     matter of the membership. This is why the **board** must

>> ratify a

>> >     policy once it reaches consensus, because if the board

>> believes that

>> >     the cost is too high (vs the benefits), they can bring the

>> proposal

>> >     back to discussion to the community. So “cost” (especially

>> if not

>> >     demonstrated), can’t be accepted as a valid objection towards

>> >     consensus. Otherwise, **any** member can block **any**

>> proposal from

>> >     the community **because of cost** (even if untrue)!

>> >

>> >      

>> >

>> >     Regards,

>> >

>> >     Jordi

>> >

>> >     @jordipalet

>> >

>> >      

>> >

>> >      

>> >

>> >      

>> >

>> >     El 16/9/20 15:44, "Eucharia Maryann" <eucharianene at gmail.com

>> >     <mailto:eucharianene at gmail.com>> escribió:

>> >

>> >      

>> >

>> >     AFRINIC services are provided to members under the umbrella

>> of the

>> >     RSA mandate, which in turn ask for compliance with policies. 

>> >

>> >     Those policies are documented in the CPM, which is continuously

>> >     updated by the PDP.

>> >

>> >     If the above actually already exist in the RSA and in the

>> CPM, then

>> >     what's the essence of this policy or is it that we love

>> repeating

>> >     same thing all the time or we are just interested in having

>> so many

>> >     duplicated policies and rules.

>> >

>> >     Please I cannot see the relevance of this policy. Thanks

>> >

>> >     Simply Eucharia.

>> >

>> >      

>> >

>> >      

>> >

>> >     On Sep 16, 2020 13:00, <rpd-request at afrinic.net

>> >     <mailto:rpd-request at afrinic.net>> wrote:

>> >

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>> >            1. Re: Policy Compliance Dashboard -

>> AFPUB-2020-GEN-001-DRAFT01

>> >               (1mgirlieadezpet at gmail.com

>> <mailto:1mgirlieadezpet at gmail.com>)

>> >

>> >

>> >        

>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>> >

>> >         Message: 1

>> >         Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 11:23:15 +0000 (UTC)

>> >         From: "1mgirlieadezpet at gmail.com

>> >         <mailto:1mgirlieadezpet at gmail.com>"

>> <1mgirlieadezpet at gmail.com

>> >         <mailto:1mgirlieadezpet at gmail.com>>

>> >         To: "gabyginernetwork at gmail.com

>> >         <mailto:gabyginernetwork at gmail.com>"

>> <gabyginernetwork at gmail.com

>> >         <mailto:gabyginernetwork at gmail.com>>,  JORDI

>> >                 PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es

>> >         <mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es>>

>> >         Cc: "rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>"

>> <rpd at afrinic.net

>> >         <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>>

>> >         Subject: Re: [rpd] Policy Compliance Dashboard -

>> >                 AFPUB-2020-GEN-001-DRAFT01

>> >         Message-ID:

>> <1385733950.2920672.1600255395989 at mail.yahoo.com

>> >         <mailto:1385733950.2920672.1600255395989 at mail.yahoo.com>>

>> >         Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>> >

>> >         Dear all,This "POLICY COMPLIANCE DASHBOARD" seems to me

>> a case

>> >         of misplaced priorities. It will surely lead to

>> complexities and

>> >         unnecessary dissipation of energy and limited resources

>> because

>> >         AFRINIC? should already be keeping track of the policy

>> >         violation.?In essence, I DO NOT see the purpose of such

>> policy

>> >         here. Therefore, I DO NOT SUPPORT it. Thank you.

>> >         Adepetun OluwaseunSystem Analyst & ProgrammerEPETUKU

>> >         TECHNOLOGIESAbuja, Nigeria

>> >

>> >         Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

>> >

>> >           On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 5:24 PM, Gaby

>> >         Giner<gabyginernetwork at gmail.com

>> >         <mailto:gabyginernetwork at gmail.com>> wrote: 

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