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[rpd] Policy Compliance Dashboard
Jaco Kroon
jaco at uls.co.za
Thu Sep 17 12:08:42 UTC 2020
Hi,
Thanks Mark. Could not have said it better myself.
I'm also in support.
Kind Regards,
Jaco
On 2020/09/17 10:12, Mark Elkins wrote:
> I agree with this policy (and as such, with Jordi). Automation is
> almost always a good thing. I also try and automate as much as
> possible so I get just get notified by exceptions - so I do less work
> - and have a better system. Being a good citizen of AFRINIC, I'd much
> prefer finding out something I am not complying with via an automated
> system rather than having AFRINIC staff wasting their time in talking
> to me about my problem. When such a problem is reported to me, I
> expect it will also point to appropriate solutions. I can then get on
> and quietly fix the problem.
>
> On 2020/09/17 09:56, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:
>>
>> Hi Marius,
>>
>>
>>
>> The policy doesn’t change how AFRINIC operate the services, just
>> improve them, and what is more important, tell AFRINIC, “you should
>> automate it as much as possible” and it is in the benefit of the
>> community (which is what is the PDP is for) because it provides
>> automated reports and notifications.
>>
>>
>>
>> To prove that your point is not necessarily correct, some folks had
>> the opinion, when I presented the M&A proposal in the previous
>> meeting, that it was an “operational” issue. Now you agree with me
>> that it is a policy thing. It all depends on which lenses you look at
>> it, but the point is that the board has the last word. If the board
>> believes it an operational issue, then they will bring back the
>> proposal to the discussion or even suggest that we withdraw it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Objecting with a personal opinion (“it is operational”) is not a
>> valid objection. Otherwise, anyone can object to **any** policy proposal.
>>
>>
>>
>> Same with the cost, can you demonstarte what is the cost of doing
>> manually this vs automating it? Just to prove your point. And again
>> note that if the cost were an issue AFRINIC will tell us in the
>> impact analysis “this is going to double our buget, we will need
>> 1.000 more members, or increase the fees to pay for it”, which they
>> didn’t told. They just talked about more resources to develop it
>> (once), which needs to be compensated with the savings once
>> implemented (forever!).
>>
>>
>>
>> And as I already explained, the implementation can be done step by
>> step, not all the CPM in a single shoot, so the resources can be
>> split across several months or even years.
>>
>>
>>
>> Last but not least AFRINIC board has to ratify the policy. That’s why
>> cost is not part of the PDP discussion, because the cost is
>> membership, not community and the board can bring back the policy to
>> discussion if the cost is not acceptable for the membership.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jordi
>>
>> @jordipalet
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> El 17/9/20 9:34, "Marius Andioc via RPD" <rpd at afrinic.net
>> <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>> escribió:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Frank,
>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry I should have maybe translated it in both languages! Here is my
>> point (Answering to previous messages) :
>>
>>
>>
>> I oppose this policy for two reasons.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regarding the nature of this proposal, it's just an operation
>> measure, a decision about how Afrinic operate and provides service. I
>> believe this is not part of our prerogatives and we should focus on
>> actual policies, not deal with Afrinic's services/products. Deciding
>> whether we should transfer or not, how we should proceed with M&A or
>> the election process are policies, this dashboard is a service, not
>> part of internet governance.
>>
>>
>>
>> Concerning the cost issue, I think contrary to what some have raised,
>> it is very much part of the issue. Rather than saying that it's too
>> costly or that it's absolute cost is too high, it's about a
>> cost/benefits point of view that this policy is not worth it.
>> Benefits are minor or at least not proven to be more than something
>> close to 0 as Afrinic is already doing the job. If the policy was
>> free of our constraint and we just had to tick a box on an app almost
>> no one would oppose it (even if results are 0 it wouldn't cost any
>> time, money, energy), but it's not the case. And opting for a policy
>> that has a cost is also potentially depriving us of another one over
>> time, it's just about avoiding waste in a policy that doesn't have
>> much benefits.
>>
>>
>>
>> I hope this clarify things?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you for your question, I'll try to send my messages in both
>> languages as possible!
>>
>>
>>
>> Have an excellent day,
>>
>>
>>
>> Marius
>>
>>
>>
>> Le 17 sept. 2020 14:25, Frank Habicht <geier at geier.ne.tz> a écrit :
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> If I understand right (Google translate...), then you say that
>> - it is not for this PDWG, but AfriNIC staff internally to decide
>> - given funds, time and practical possibility, you support this to be
>> done
>>
>> right?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Frank
>>
>> On 17/09/2020 04:35, Marius Andioc via RPD wrote:
>> > Bonjour,
>> >
>> > Concernant le coût, je pense qu'au contraire celui-ci doit
>> rentrer en
>> > ligne de compte. Le principe d'un choix, d'un trade off, est
>> que nous
>> > aurons à choisir une politique plutôt qu'une autre (si ce n'est pas
>> > immédiat c'est un choix entre cette politique aujourd'hui et
>> une autre
>> > demain).
>> > Les moyens d'AFRINIC ne sont pas illimités, nous avons tout
>> intérêt à
>> > choisir avec prudence ce qui est réalisé. Ici plus que le coût de
>> > manière absolue, c'est le rapport coût/0 ou très peu de
>> bénéfice qui
>> > m'évoque un simple gaspillage (de temps, de moyens et
>> d'énergie, pas
>> > uniquement une question de coût chiffré).
>> > Pour résumer : le coût en lui même n'est pas tant un problème,
>> mais le
>> > rapport coût / bénéfice en est un. Si cette politique ne
>> nécessitait
>> > qu'une case à cocher dans une application pour se réaliser il
>> n'y aurait
>> > pas ou peu d'opposition.
>> > Je souhaite enfin rajouter que les modalités opérationnelles et les
>> > services d'AFRINIC ne sont pas de notre ressort. Nous devons nous
>> > concentrer sur son rôle: celui de registre. Cette proposition
>> n'est pas
>> > une politique mais une proposition opérationnelle et elle n'a
>> donc pas
>> > grand chose à faire ici.
>> >
>> > Je vous souhaite une excellente journée,
>> >
>> > Marius Andioc
>> >
>> > Le 16 sept. 2020 22:58, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD
>> <rpd at afrinic.net> a
>> > écrit :
>> >
>> > The RSA is an overall umbrella set by the members, and is
>> not complete.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The PDP is a higher-level set by the community, as complete
>> as we wish.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I think many participants still get confused with that. The PDP
>> > state what rules the community want to be followed,
>> verified, etc.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The PDP affects **all**, while the RSA only affects members.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The community is on **top** of the membership. So, the
>> community is
>> > free to agree on rules **over the RSA**, especially when
>> the RSA is
>> > not sufficiently clear.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > And one more point that I was not able to respond in the
>> chat. The
>> > PDP, and thus the policy proposals, can’t consider **cost** (I
>> > disagree that this will be a too high cost), because the
>> cost is a
>> > matter of the membership. This is why the **board** must
>> ratify a
>> > policy once it reaches consensus, because if the board
>> believes that
>> > the cost is too high (vs the benefits), they can bring the
>> proposal
>> > back to discussion to the community. So “cost” (especially
>> if not
>> > demonstrated), can’t be accepted as a valid objection towards
>> > consensus. Otherwise, **any** member can block **any**
>> proposal from
>> > the community **because of cost** (even if untrue)!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Jordi
>> >
>> > @jordipalet
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > El 16/9/20 15:44, "Eucharia Maryann" <eucharianene at gmail.com
>> > <mailto:eucharianene at gmail.com>> escribió:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > AFRINIC services are provided to members under the umbrella
>> of the
>> > RSA mandate, which in turn ask for compliance with policies.
>> >
>> > Those policies are documented in the CPM, which is continuously
>> > updated by the PDP.
>> >
>> > If the above actually already exist in the RSA and in the
>> CPM, then
>> > what's the essence of this policy or is it that we love
>> repeating
>> > same thing all the time or we are just interested in having
>> so many
>> > duplicated policies and rules.
>> >
>> > Please I cannot see the relevance of this policy. Thanks
>> >
>> > Simply Eucharia.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sep 16, 2020 13:00, <rpd-request at afrinic.net
>> > <mailto:rpd-request at afrinic.net>> wrote:
>> >
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>> >
>> > Today's Topics:
>> >
>> > 1. Re: Policy Compliance Dashboard -
>> AFPUB-2020-GEN-001-DRAFT01
>> > (1mgirlieadezpet at gmail.com
>> <mailto:1mgirlieadezpet at gmail.com>)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 1
>> > Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 11:23:15 +0000 (UTC)
>> > From: "1mgirlieadezpet at gmail.com
>> > <mailto:1mgirlieadezpet at gmail.com>"
>> <1mgirlieadezpet at gmail.com
>> > <mailto:1mgirlieadezpet at gmail.com>>
>> > To: "gabyginernetwork at gmail.com
>> > <mailto:gabyginernetwork at gmail.com>"
>> <gabyginernetwork at gmail.com
>> > <mailto:gabyginernetwork at gmail.com>>, JORDI
>> > PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es
>> > <mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es>>
>> > Cc: "rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>"
>> <rpd at afrinic.net
>> > <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>>
>> > Subject: Re: [rpd] Policy Compliance Dashboard -
>> > AFPUB-2020-GEN-001-DRAFT01
>> > Message-ID:
>> <1385733950.2920672.1600255395989 at mail.yahoo.com
>> > <mailto:1385733950.2920672.1600255395989 at mail.yahoo.com>>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >
>> > Dear all,This "POLICY COMPLIANCE DASHBOARD" seems to me
>> a case
>> > of misplaced priorities. It will surely lead to
>> complexities and
>> > unnecessary dissipation of energy and limited resources
>> because
>> > AFRINIC? should already be keeping track of the policy
>> > violation.?In essence, I DO NOT see the purpose of such
>> policy
>> > here. Therefore, I DO NOT SUPPORT it. Thank you.
>> > Adepetun OluwaseunSystem Analyst & ProgrammerEPETUKU
>> > TECHNOLOGIESAbuja, Nigeria
>> >
>> > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>> >
>> > On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 5:24 PM, Gaby
>> > Giner<gabyginernetwork at gmail.com
>> > <mailto:gabyginernetwork at gmail.com>> wrote:
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