[rpd] Policy Compliance Dashboard

[Mark Elkins]

I agree with this policy (and as such, with Jordi). Automation is almost 
always a good thing. I also try and automate as much as possible so I 
get just get notified by exceptions - so I do less work - and have a 
better system. Being a good citizen of AFRINIC, I'd much prefer finding 
out something I am not complying with via an automated system rather 
than having AFRINIC staff wasting their time in talking to me about my 
problem. When such a problem is reported to me, I expect it will also 
point to appropriate solutions. I can then get on and quietly fix the 
problem.

On 2020/09/17 09:56, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:

>

> Hi Marius,

>

> The policy doesn’t change how AFRINIC operate the services, just 

> improve them, and what is more important, tell AFRINIC, “you should 

> automate it as much as possible” and it is in the benefit of the 

> community (which is what is the PDP is for) because it provides 

> automated reports and notifications.

>

> To prove that your point is not necessarily correct, some folks had 

> the opinion, when I presented the M&A proposal in the previous 

> meeting, that it was an “operational” issue. Now you agree with me 

> that it is a policy thing. It all depends on which lenses you look at 

> it, but the point is that the board has the last word. If the board 

> believes it an operational issue, then they will bring back the 

> proposal to the discussion or even suggest that we withdraw it.

>

> Objecting with a personal opinion (“it is operational”) is not a valid 

> objection. Otherwise, anyone can object to **any** policy proposal.

>

> Same with the cost, can you demonstarte what is the cost of doing 

> manually this vs automating it? Just to prove your point. And again 

> note that if the cost were an issue AFRINIC will tell us in the impact 

> analysis “this is going to double our buget, we will need 1.000 more 

> members, or increase the fees to pay for it”, which they didn’t told. 

> They just talked about more resources to develop it (once), which 

> needs to be compensated with the savings once implemented (forever!).

>

> And as I already explained, the implementation can be done step by 

> step, not all the CPM in a single shoot, so the resources can be split 

> across several months or even years.

>

> Last but not least AFRINIC board has to ratify the policy. That’s why 

> cost is not part of the PDP discussion, because the cost is 

> membership, not community and the board can bring back the policy to 

> discussion if the cost is not acceptable for the membership.

>

> Regards,

>

> Jordi

>

> @jordipalet

>

> El 17/9/20 9:34, "Marius Andioc via RPD" <rpd at afrinic.net 

> <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>> escribió:

>

> Hi Frank,

>

> Sorry I should have maybe translated it in both languages! Here is my 

> point (Answering to previous messages) :

>

> I oppose this policy for two reasons.

>

> Regarding the nature of this proposal, it's just an operation measure, 

> a decision about how Afrinic operate and provides service. I believe 

> this is not part of our prerogatives and we should focus on actual 

> policies, not deal with Afrinic's services/products. Deciding whether 

> we should transfer or not, how we should proceed with M&A or the 

> election process are policies, this dashboard is a service, not part 

> of internet governance.

>

> Concerning the cost issue, I think contrary to what some have raised, 

> it is very much part of the issue. Rather than saying that it's too 

> costly or that it's absolute cost is too high, it's about a 

> cost/benefits point of view that this policy is not worth it. Benefits 

> are minor or at least not proven to be more than something close to 0 

> as Afrinic is already doing the job. If the policy was free of our 

> constraint and we just had to tick a box on an app almost no one would 

> oppose it (even if results are 0 it wouldn't cost any time, money, 

> energy), but it's not the case. And opting for a policy that has a 

> cost is also potentially depriving us of another one over time, it's 

> just about avoiding waste in a policy that doesn't have much benefits.

>

> I hope this clarify things?

>

> Thank you for your question, I'll try to send my messages in both 

> languages as possible!

>

> Have an excellent day,

>

> Marius

>

> Le 17 sept. 2020 14:25, Frank Habicht <geier at geier.ne.tz> a écrit :

>

>     Hi,

>

>     If I understand right (Google translate...), then you say that

>     - it is not for this PDWG, but AfriNIC staff internally to decide

>     - given funds, time and practical possibility, you support this to be

>        done

>

>     right?

>

>     Thanks,

>     Frank

>

>     On 17/09/2020 04:35, Marius Andioc via RPD wrote:

>     > Bonjour,

>     >

>     > Concernant le coût, je pense qu'au contraire celui-ci doit

>     rentrer en

>     > ligne de compte. Le principe d'un choix, d'un trade off, est que

>     nous

>     > aurons à choisir une politique plutôt qu'une autre (si ce n'est pas

>     > immédiat c'est un choix entre cette politique aujourd'hui et une

>     autre

>     > demain).

>     > Les moyens d'AFRINIC ne sont pas illimités, nous avons tout

>     intérêt à

>     > choisir avec prudence ce qui est réalisé. Ici plus que le coût de

>     > manière absolue, c'est le rapport coût/0 ou très peu de bénéfice qui

>     > m'évoque un simple gaspillage (de temps, de moyens et d'énergie, pas

>     > uniquement une question de coût chiffré).

>     > Pour résumer : le coût en lui même n'est pas tant un problème,

>     mais le

>     > rapport coût / bénéfice en est un. Si cette politique ne nécessitait

>     > qu'une case à cocher dans une application pour se réaliser il

>     n'y aurait

>     > pas ou peu d'opposition.

>     > Je souhaite enfin rajouter que les modalités opérationnelles et les

>     > services d'AFRINIC ne sont pas de notre ressort. Nous devons nous

>     > concentrer sur son rôle: celui de registre. Cette proposition

>     n'est pas

>     > une politique mais une proposition opérationnelle et elle n'a

>     donc pas

>     > grand chose à faire ici.

>     >

>     > Je vous souhaite une excellente journée,

>     >

>     > Marius Andioc

>     >

>     > Le 16 sept. 2020 22:58, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD

>     <rpd at afrinic.net> a

>     > écrit :

>     >

>     >     The RSA is an overall umbrella set by the members, and is

>     not complete.

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >     The PDP is a higher-level set by the community, as complete

>     as we wish.

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >     I think many participants still get confused with that. The PDP

>     >     state what rules the community want to be followed,

>     verified, etc.

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >     The PDP affects **all**, while the RSA only affects members.

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >     The community is on **top** of the membership. So, the

>     community is

>     >     free to agree on rules **over the RSA**, especially when the

>     RSA is

>     >     not sufficiently clear.

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >     And one more point that I was not able to respond in the

>     chat. The

>     >     PDP, and thus the policy proposals, can’t consider **cost** (I

>     >     disagree that this will be a too high cost), because the

>     cost is a

>     >     matter of the membership. This is why the **board** must

>     ratify a

>     >     policy once it reaches consensus, because if the board

>     believes that

>     >     the cost is too high (vs the benefits), they can bring the

>     proposal

>     >     back to discussion to the community. So “cost” (especially

>     if not

>     >     demonstrated), can’t be accepted as a valid objection towards

>     >     consensus. Otherwise, **any** member can block **any**

>     proposal from

>     >     the community **because of cost** (even if untrue)!

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >     Regards,

>     >

>     >     Jordi

>     >

>     >     @jordipalet

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >     El 16/9/20 15:44, "Eucharia Maryann" <eucharianene at gmail.com

>     >     <mailto:eucharianene at gmail.com>> escribió:

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >     AFRINIC services are provided to members under the umbrella

>     of the

>     >     RSA mandate, which in turn ask for compliance with policies.

>     >

>     >     Those policies are documented in the CPM, which is continuously

>     >     updated by the PDP.

>     >

>     >     If the above actually already exist in the RSA and in the

>     CPM, then

>     >     what's the essence of this policy or is it that we love

>     repeating

>     >     same thing all the time or we are just interested in having

>     so many

>     >     duplicated policies and rules.

>     >

>     >     Please I cannot see the relevance of this policy. Thanks

>     >

>     >     Simply Eucharia.

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >     On Sep 16, 2020 13:00, <rpd-request at afrinic.net

>     >     <mailto:rpd-request at afrinic.net>> wrote:

>     >

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>     >         Today's Topics:

>     >

>     >            1. Re: Policy Compliance Dashboard -

>     AFPUB-2020-GEN-001-DRAFT01

>     >               (1mgirlieadezpet at gmail.com

>     <mailto:1mgirlieadezpet at gmail.com>)

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>     >

>     >         Message: 1

>     >         Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 11:23:15 +0000 (UTC)

>     >         From: "1mgirlieadezpet at gmail.com

>     > <mailto:1mgirlieadezpet at gmail.com>" <1mgirlieadezpet at gmail.com

>     > <mailto:1mgirlieadezpet at gmail.com>>

>     >         To: "gabyginernetwork at gmail.com

>     > <mailto:gabyginernetwork at gmail.com>" <gabyginernetwork at gmail.com

>     > <mailto:gabyginernetwork at gmail.com>>, JORDI

>     >                 PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es

>     > <mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es>>

>     >         Cc: "rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>"

>     <rpd at afrinic.net

>     >         <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>>

>     >         Subject: Re: [rpd] Policy Compliance Dashboard -

>     >                 AFPUB-2020-GEN-001-DRAFT01

>     >         Message-ID: <1385733950.2920672.1600255395989 at mail.yahoo.com

>     > <mailto:1385733950.2920672.1600255395989 at mail.yahoo.com>>

>     >         Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>     >

>     >         Dear all,This "POLICY COMPLIANCE DASHBOARD" seems to me

>     a case

>     >         of misplaced priorities. It will surely lead to

>     complexities and

>     >         unnecessary dissipation of energy and limited resources

>     because

>     >         AFRINIC? should already be keeping track of the policy

>     >         violation.?In essence, I DO NOT see the purpose of such

>     policy

>     >         here. Therefore, I DO NOT SUPPORT it. Thank you.

>     >         Adepetun OluwaseunSystem Analyst & ProgrammerEPETUKU

>     >         TECHNOLOGIESAbuja, Nigeria

>     >

>     >         Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

>     >

>     >           On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 5:24 PM, Gaby

>     >         Giner<gabyginernetwork at gmail.com

>     > <mailto:gabyginernetwork at gmail.com>> wrote:

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