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[rpd] Policy Compliance Dashboard
Mark Elkins
mje at posix.co.za
Thu Sep 17 08:12:11 UTC 2020
I agree with this policy (and as such, with Jordi). Automation is almost
always a good thing. I also try and automate as much as possible so I
get just get notified by exceptions - so I do less work - and have a
better system. Being a good citizen of AFRINIC, I'd much prefer finding
out something I am not complying with via an automated system rather
than having AFRINIC staff wasting their time in talking to me about my
problem. When such a problem is reported to me, I expect it will also
point to appropriate solutions. I can then get on and quietly fix the
problem.
On 2020/09/17 09:56, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:
>
> Hi Marius,
>
> The policy doesn’t change how AFRINIC operate the services, just
> improve them, and what is more important, tell AFRINIC, “you should
> automate it as much as possible” and it is in the benefit of the
> community (which is what is the PDP is for) because it provides
> automated reports and notifications.
>
> To prove that your point is not necessarily correct, some folks had
> the opinion, when I presented the M&A proposal in the previous
> meeting, that it was an “operational” issue. Now you agree with me
> that it is a policy thing. It all depends on which lenses you look at
> it, but the point is that the board has the last word. If the board
> believes it an operational issue, then they will bring back the
> proposal to the discussion or even suggest that we withdraw it.
>
> Objecting with a personal opinion (“it is operational”) is not a valid
> objection. Otherwise, anyone can object to **any** policy proposal.
>
> Same with the cost, can you demonstarte what is the cost of doing
> manually this vs automating it? Just to prove your point. And again
> note that if the cost were an issue AFRINIC will tell us in the impact
> analysis “this is going to double our buget, we will need 1.000 more
> members, or increase the fees to pay for it”, which they didn’t told.
> They just talked about more resources to develop it (once), which
> needs to be compensated with the savings once implemented (forever!).
>
> And as I already explained, the implementation can be done step by
> step, not all the CPM in a single shoot, so the resources can be split
> across several months or even years.
>
> Last but not least AFRINIC board has to ratify the policy. That’s why
> cost is not part of the PDP discussion, because the cost is
> membership, not community and the board can bring back the policy to
> discussion if the cost is not acceptable for the membership.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jordi
>
> @jordipalet
>
> El 17/9/20 9:34, "Marius Andioc via RPD" <rpd at afrinic.net
> <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>> escribió:
>
> Hi Frank,
>
> Sorry I should have maybe translated it in both languages! Here is my
> point (Answering to previous messages) :
>
> I oppose this policy for two reasons.
>
> Regarding the nature of this proposal, it's just an operation measure,
> a decision about how Afrinic operate and provides service. I believe
> this is not part of our prerogatives and we should focus on actual
> policies, not deal with Afrinic's services/products. Deciding whether
> we should transfer or not, how we should proceed with M&A or the
> election process are policies, this dashboard is a service, not part
> of internet governance.
>
> Concerning the cost issue, I think contrary to what some have raised,
> it is very much part of the issue. Rather than saying that it's too
> costly or that it's absolute cost is too high, it's about a
> cost/benefits point of view that this policy is not worth it. Benefits
> are minor or at least not proven to be more than something close to 0
> as Afrinic is already doing the job. If the policy was free of our
> constraint and we just had to tick a box on an app almost no one would
> oppose it (even if results are 0 it wouldn't cost any time, money,
> energy), but it's not the case. And opting for a policy that has a
> cost is also potentially depriving us of another one over time, it's
> just about avoiding waste in a policy that doesn't have much benefits.
>
> I hope this clarify things?
>
> Thank you for your question, I'll try to send my messages in both
> languages as possible!
>
> Have an excellent day,
>
> Marius
>
> Le 17 sept. 2020 14:25, Frank Habicht <geier at geier.ne.tz> a écrit :
>
> Hi,
>
> If I understand right (Google translate...), then you say that
> - it is not for this PDWG, but AfriNIC staff internally to decide
> - given funds, time and practical possibility, you support this to be
> done
>
> right?
>
> Thanks,
> Frank
>
> On 17/09/2020 04:35, Marius Andioc via RPD wrote:
> > Bonjour,
> >
> > Concernant le coût, je pense qu'au contraire celui-ci doit
> rentrer en
> > ligne de compte. Le principe d'un choix, d'un trade off, est que
> nous
> > aurons à choisir une politique plutôt qu'une autre (si ce n'est pas
> > immédiat c'est un choix entre cette politique aujourd'hui et une
> autre
> > demain).
> > Les moyens d'AFRINIC ne sont pas illimités, nous avons tout
> intérêt à
> > choisir avec prudence ce qui est réalisé. Ici plus que le coût de
> > manière absolue, c'est le rapport coût/0 ou très peu de bénéfice qui
> > m'évoque un simple gaspillage (de temps, de moyens et d'énergie, pas
> > uniquement une question de coût chiffré).
> > Pour résumer : le coût en lui même n'est pas tant un problème,
> mais le
> > rapport coût / bénéfice en est un. Si cette politique ne nécessitait
> > qu'une case à cocher dans une application pour se réaliser il
> n'y aurait
> > pas ou peu d'opposition.
> > Je souhaite enfin rajouter que les modalités opérationnelles et les
> > services d'AFRINIC ne sont pas de notre ressort. Nous devons nous
> > concentrer sur son rôle: celui de registre. Cette proposition
> n'est pas
> > une politique mais une proposition opérationnelle et elle n'a
> donc pas
> > grand chose à faire ici.
> >
> > Je vous souhaite une excellente journée,
> >
> > Marius Andioc
> >
> > Le 16 sept. 2020 22:58, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD
> <rpd at afrinic.net> a
> > écrit :
> >
> > The RSA is an overall umbrella set by the members, and is
> not complete.
> >
> >
> >
> > The PDP is a higher-level set by the community, as complete
> as we wish.
> >
> >
> >
> > I think many participants still get confused with that. The PDP
> > state what rules the community want to be followed,
> verified, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> > The PDP affects **all**, while the RSA only affects members.
> >
> >
> >
> > The community is on **top** of the membership. So, the
> community is
> > free to agree on rules **over the RSA**, especially when the
> RSA is
> > not sufficiently clear.
> >
> >
> >
> > And one more point that I was not able to respond in the
> chat. The
> > PDP, and thus the policy proposals, can’t consider **cost** (I
> > disagree that this will be a too high cost), because the
> cost is a
> > matter of the membership. This is why the **board** must
> ratify a
> > policy once it reaches consensus, because if the board
> believes that
> > the cost is too high (vs the benefits), they can bring the
> proposal
> > back to discussion to the community. So “cost” (especially
> if not
> > demonstrated), can’t be accepted as a valid objection towards
> > consensus. Otherwise, **any** member can block **any**
> proposal from
> > the community **because of cost** (even if untrue)!
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jordi
> >
> > @jordipalet
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > El 16/9/20 15:44, "Eucharia Maryann" <eucharianene at gmail.com
> > <mailto:eucharianene at gmail.com>> escribió:
> >
> >
> >
> > AFRINIC services are provided to members under the umbrella
> of the
> > RSA mandate, which in turn ask for compliance with policies.
> >
> > Those policies are documented in the CPM, which is continuously
> > updated by the PDP.
> >
> > If the above actually already exist in the RSA and in the
> CPM, then
> > what's the essence of this policy or is it that we love
> repeating
> > same thing all the time or we are just interested in having
> so many
> > duplicated policies and rules.
> >
> > Please I cannot see the relevance of this policy. Thanks
> >
> > Simply Eucharia.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sep 16, 2020 13:00, <rpd-request at afrinic.net
> > <mailto:rpd-request at afrinic.net>> wrote:
> >
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> >
> > 1. Re: Policy Compliance Dashboard -
> AFPUB-2020-GEN-001-DRAFT01
> > (1mgirlieadezpet at gmail.com
> <mailto:1mgirlieadezpet at gmail.com>)
> >
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 11:23:15 +0000 (UTC)
> > From: "1mgirlieadezpet at gmail.com
> > <mailto:1mgirlieadezpet at gmail.com>" <1mgirlieadezpet at gmail.com
> > <mailto:1mgirlieadezpet at gmail.com>>
> > To: "gabyginernetwork at gmail.com
> > <mailto:gabyginernetwork at gmail.com>" <gabyginernetwork at gmail.com
> > <mailto:gabyginernetwork at gmail.com>>, JORDI
> > PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es
> > <mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es>>
> > Cc: "rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>"
> <rpd at afrinic.net
> > <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>>
> > Subject: Re: [rpd] Policy Compliance Dashboard -
> > AFPUB-2020-GEN-001-DRAFT01
> > Message-ID: <1385733950.2920672.1600255395989 at mail.yahoo.com
> > <mailto:1385733950.2920672.1600255395989 at mail.yahoo.com>>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Dear all,This "POLICY COMPLIANCE DASHBOARD" seems to me
> a case
> > of misplaced priorities. It will surely lead to
> complexities and
> > unnecessary dissipation of energy and limited resources
> because
> > AFRINIC? should already be keeping track of the policy
> > violation.?In essence, I DO NOT see the purpose of such
> policy
> > here. Therefore, I DO NOT SUPPORT it. Thank you.
> > Adepetun OluwaseunSystem Analyst & ProgrammerEPETUKU
> > TECHNOLOGIESAbuja, Nigeria
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 5:24 PM, Gaby
> > Giner<gabyginernetwork at gmail.com
> > <mailto:gabyginernetwork at gmail.com>> wrote:
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