[rpd] Cooperation re PDP update proposal

Mon May 20 10:19:43 UTC 2019

Hi,

El 22/2/19 19:30, "Komi Elitcha" <kmw.elitcha at gmail.com> escribió:

    HI Jordi,

    As discussed at many occasions, participation in PDP at afrinic service 
    region is not as bad compared to other regions.

I don't think so. And this proposal creates additional complexity which will make it worst.

    We recently saw some disengagement from frustration caused by several 
    abuses of the current PDP.

I disagree there has not been any abuse on the PDP. Debating and having controversial conversations is part of it.

    The PDP is very light with implicit practices, no description of role of 
    cochairs nor how proposed policies make progress or how consensus is 
    gauge, etc...

And the easier way is to improve it, not to change it. Radical changes with increased complexity will not help at all.

    No operational rules for the working group which underlies the PDP...

I disagree, there are just small things to polish.

    This led to a lot of sterile discussions, lack of progress, personal 
    attacks, out of scope discussions, etc..

Personal attacks aren't part of the PDP, but an AUP. If the existing AUP (code of conduct) for all the AFRINIC lists is not enough, a specific policy for an AUP should be created. Don't mix both topics. Discussions are *never* sterile, even if the community doesn't reach an agreement in any specific proposal all the discussions are useful, we all learn from those debates.

    The PDP-BIS  initiative  is to fix these weaknesses and limitations 
    shown by the current PDP, create an operational guideline for the PDP 
    Working Group in  order to restore the confidence in the process to all 
    participants and make sure people can contribute constructively. More 
    people will certainly join as they see the changes.

We have it there already, is just polishing some bits.

    So, no complexity being added .. only clarity in addressing real issues.

    As you appear not to know where we are coming from, your ability to take 
    us to the right destination is doubtful.

I've been participating in this community since AFRINIC was created, so I know very well it. Further, I'm also active in the other 4 RIRs and many other related organizations, so I think I've sufficient knowledge and experience to have a clearer view on all this. I think is really wrong for any community member to judge if another member is able to contribute or not, it is just a matter of the PDP and its results.

Regards,
Jordi

    On 13/02/2019 19:35, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
    > Hi Dewole, all,
    >
    > I've done already this long time ago, but never got a response.
    >
    > If you look at the archive of the mailing list, it was done even during the meeting. I explained in the meeting that I will send my own *raw* notes to the list, and I did that. Here is the direct link:
    > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2018/008759.html
    >
    > I'm happy to discuss point by point to get this progressing ahead.
    >
    > The main issue is that reading again the proposal after not getting answers before and from the Dakar meeting, I realized that it is way too complex. Is basically trying to copy the RIPE process, which for me, as I said in the meeting, was one of the best ones (I recall it was presented a video where I said that), but once you look into other regions as well, you see that a bad copy is not always a good thing, especially if there is unnecessary complexity, in a region where the participation in the PDP is close to zero.
    >
    > We need a very simple process, we need to make simpler the actual one, not more complex and sophisticated. This is one of the ways we can get a participation increase, which is and must be the main goal of a PDP update.
    >
    > I'm sure everybody agree on this.
    >
    > Regards,
    > Jordi
    >   
    >   
    >
    > -----Mensaje original-----
    > De: Dewole Ajao <dewole at forum.org.ng>
    > Fecha: domingo, 10 de febrero de 2019, 21:59
    > Para: Komi Elitcha <kmw.elitcha at gmail.com>, Arnaud AMELINA <amelnaud at gmail.com>, Honest Ornella GANKPA <honest1989 at gmail.com>, ALAIN AINA <Alain.Aina at wacren.net>, <rpd at afrinic.net>
    > Asunto: [rpd] Cooperation re PDP update proposal
    >
    >      Good day Authors,
    >      
    >      I trust you are doing well. As agreed during the last public policy
    >      meeting, I hope you have given some thought to how contributions on the
    >      PDP update proposal can be accepted.
    >      
    >      Jordi, you had mentioned some areas that you believe need improvement in
    >      the current PDP BIS proposal draft - can we start by laying out these
    >      areas and seeing which ones can be absorbed into the PDP BIS draft?
    >      
    >      Authors, would it be possible to group the proposed changes to the PDP
    >      in such a way that patches are applied to the areas of concern that
    >      reach rough consensus of the PDWG rather than waiting to have agreement
    >      on *all* the parts of the proposal? These groups of changes could also
    >      be proposed simultaneously as separate proposals at the same time if all
    >      parts must be addressed at once.
    >      
    >      Do note that you are not compelled to do any of the above but this is
    >      the co-chairs' attempt to see the process move forward in a manner that
    >      would save us months and see us finding rough consensus on all or part
    >      of the existing proposal; As per the PDP, the alternatives of
    >      maintaining the status quo and/or accepting new proposals on the same
    >      subject definitely remain.
    >      
    >      Please note that the rpd list is in copy so that other members may also
    >      volunteer input as this process goes on. Looking forward to reading from
    >      you soon.
    >      
    >      Regards,
    >      
    >      PDWG Co-Chairs.
    >      
    >      
    >      _______________________________________________
    >      RPD mailing list
    >      RPD at afrinic.net
    >      https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
    >      
    >
    >
    >
    > **********************************************
    > IPv4 is over
    > Are you ready for the new Internet ?
    > http://www.theipv6company.com
    > The IPv6 Company
    >
    > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
    >
    >
    >
    -- 
    KE
    https://www.linkedin.com/in/komi-elitcha/

**********************************************
IPv4 is over
Are you ready for the new Internet ?
http://www.theipv6company.com
The IPv6 Company

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.