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[rpd] Fwd: [arin-ppml] Micfo

Thu May 16 08:53:02 UTC 2019

Hi Daniel,


El 16/5/19 10:43, "Daniel Yakmut via RPD" <rpd at> escribió:


My point, if the Afrinic RSA has obervable shortcomings, then that is what we should address.


Then we should restate the problem statement.


At the point of obtaining a resource the RSA is the first and main document that the LIR/user gets in contact with, so it should be robust and fairly adequate to guide the person on knowing what and what not s/he should handle the resource. 


Let’s clearly define what are we missing in the RSA.


Is it that AFRINIC must review policy compliance when there is a suspect of violation?


This doesn’t require “regular or random reviews”. Community in case of suspected cases can always provide the relevant info to the staff and they can also do a review.



Therefore, as we make comparisons, we should do that with the intend of improving our situation.





On Thu, May 16, 2019, 9:15 AM Owen DeLong <owen at> wrote:


On May 16, 2019, at 00:53 , Noah <noah at> wrote:



On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 10:14 AM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at> wrote:

And for that, a new policy was not needed.


Ok, lets just "assume" that you don't need policy to address fraud. Then what is the purpose of section 12 of the ARIN (Number Resource Policy Manual) [1] ?  


Section 12 was written to place limits on exactly what and how ARIN could conduct resource reviews against organizations in the ARIN region.


ARIN had virtually unlimited authority to do so prior to implementing section 12.


Notice that NRPM12 differs from the proposal under discussion here in a number of significant ways:


In no particular order, here are 5 of the most significant differences:

1. The legal environment is very different

2. The RSA is significantly different

3. NRPM 12 does not require ARIN to make random audits

4. NRPM 12 does not require ARIN to take action on complaints or to judge the voracity of complaints

and go after organizations where ARIN cannot prove a lack of voracity.

5. NRPM 12 gives ARIN staff significantly more discretion to be merciful in such reviews.


Ooooh and If a member agreement is sufficient, then why is fraud addressed in ARIN number resource policy?


It isn’t really. You are thinking that NRPM creates the authority for ARIN to audit. In reality, NRPM 12 was passed in order to limit ARIN’s authority and prevent abuse.

And lastly, If I may ask, how would you compare the AfriNIC RSA against the ARIN RSA?


I wouldn’t. They are quite different documents operating in very different legal traditions and legal environments. I will leave any such attempt at comparison to the lawyers. I have no interest in it.




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