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[rpd] Opposing the last call made on the review policy

Mark Elkins mje at posix.co.za
Sat Dec 1 17:01:37 UTC 2018


If I look at the AFRINIC Web site - I see...

https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals

This shows there has been no updates to the "Internet Number Resources
review" policy - so how can it ever pass to last call if there hasn't
been any changes? All the old arguments still stand against it!


On 12/1/18 10:21 AM, Timothy Ola Akinfenwa wrote:
> Hello Mark,
> See responses in-line 
>
> On Sat, 1 Dec 2018, 8:52 AM Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za
> <mailto:mje at posix.co.za> wrote:
>
>     From what Andrew is saying - the policy should never have gone to
>     last call if there have been no changes. That's how the PDP
>     process is meant to work. In reality - if the whole community
>     accepted seeing a policy for the second time - then fair enough -
>     but that is NOT the case here. I strongly oppose this policy. I
>     have also watched the antics of the people pushing this policy and
>     I think it was extremely rude and totally out of place for one of
>     their party to call someone else in the room a "visitor" -
>     suggesting that that other person had no rights to be present. The
>     person being subjected to this treatment provided much needed
>     input (and policies) to the Policy Development Process -
>     especially regarding IPv6 - which is our future.
>     We should have no place for Name Calling.
>
> Not speaking for the person here, but I remembered watching it
> remotely where the said person clarified his statement. 
>
>     I never heard an apology either.
>
> I think you should watch again, the person apologised if his statement
> has been misinterpreted and even heard applause from the room afterwards.


For clarity, this was Alain calling Jordi a visitor in what seemed like
an unpleasant connotation. I distinctly remember the audience
unfortunately applauding at his remark. Chatting to others in the room
since then - no apology was made. They were also taken aback by the episode.

I was both listening for the whole day (and the day before and after)
and also logged in on the Chat system.

>     Anyway - I believe that the PDP Co-Chairs have made a mistake and
>     this Policy has not reached a positive Consensus (actually quite
>     the opposite to Positive). It should not be at last call.
>
>     The Policy - if used - is also extremely dangerous to the
>     existence and financial well being of the Company (AFRINIC).
>     It really should be withdrawn.
>
> I thought Staff Assessment was conducted. I believe this must have
> been sorted out and necessary clarification provided.
>
>     On 12/1/18 9:15 AM, Andrew Alston wrote:
>>
>>     Sorry – I need to correct something in my email below –
>>
>>      
>>
>>     I said there were no _/substantive/_ changes since the last
>>     rejection of this policy – this is inaccurate – there were **NO**
>>     - changes – substantive or otherwise – zero – zip – none – as per
>>     the website which publishes draft 6
>>
>>      
>>
>>     Andrew
>>
>>      
>>
>>      
>>
>>     *From: *Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
>>     <mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
>>     *Date: *Saturday, 1 December 2018 at 09:27
>>     *To: *"aleruchichuku at yahoo.com" <mailto:aleruchichuku at yahoo.com>
>>     <aleruchichuku at yahoo.com> <mailto:aleruchichuku at yahoo.com>,
>>     Daniel Yakmut <yakmutd at googlemail.com>
>>     <mailto:yakmutd at googlemail.com>, Daniel Yakmut via RPD
>>     <rpd at afrinic.net> <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>
>>     *Subject: *Re: [rpd] Opposing the last call made on the review policy
>>
>>      
>>
>>     Aleruchi,
>>
>>      
>>
>>     While I agree with everything you have said – let us also be
>>     pragmatic.  This policy is pushed by the same crowd that walked
>>     to the microphone and agreed at the request of the community to
>>     drop another policy, and then reneged on it.  This policy has
>>     been rejected, as has the soft landing policy, over and over
>>     again – yet the authors do not give a damn about the will of the
>>     community or the good of the community.  Go and watch the videos
>>     of the Mauritian policy meeting – you will notice the same people
>>     involved in what happened there are involved in this policy as well.
>>
>>      
>>
>>     The authors have clearly demonstrated that they care not a whit
>>     about what this community wants or believes is good for it, they
>>     have demonstrated bad faith, and shown that the only thing they
>>     care about is shoving something through no matter the consequence
>>     – and the co-chairs have already shown that they either do not
>>     understand the concept of consensus – or simply do not care. 
>>     Fact is – there is precedent on co-chairs being overturned on
>>     appeal in another RIR – and when it happened – the person who was
>>     overturned – ceased to be a co-chair.  These co-chairs however
>>     are insistent on a path that ignores the consensus process, and
>>     seem hell bent on forcing a situation where they are overturned –
>>     yet again – or failing that forcing AfriNIC into an untenable and
>>     potentially costly process beyond the appeal process.
>>
>>      
>>
>>     Reality is – there were _/no/_ substantive changes to this policy
>>     from the last time it was rejected – and the objections to the
>>     policy that were stated back then have never been withdrawn, and
>>     by lack of changes in the text can be clearly demonstrated to not
>>     have been addressed – this flies in the very face of the
>>     definition of consensus – the co-chairs however simply do not care.
>>
>>      
>>
>>     Welcome to what our PDP process has become – the bullying of the
>>     minority supported by co-chairs who do not understand consensus –
>>     to push through agendas that have zero to do with the good of the
>>     community and more to do with standing your ground to prove that
>>     you can.
>>
>>      
>>
>>     And btw – before I’m attacked – yes – I have proposed some
>>     controversial policies over the years – fact is – all of them
>>     were withdrawn when the community wanted that.
>>
>>      
>>
>>     Andrew
>>
>>      
>>
>>     *From: *aleruchi chuku via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net>
>>     <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>
>>     *Reply-To: *"aleruchichuku at yahoo.com"
>>     <mailto:aleruchichuku at yahoo.com> <aleruchichuku at yahoo.com>
>>     <mailto:aleruchichuku at yahoo.com>
>>     *Date: *Saturday, 1 December 2018 at 07:02
>>     *To: *Daniel Yakmut <yakmutd at googlemail.com>
>>     <mailto:yakmutd at googlemail.com>, Daniel Yakmut via RPD
>>     <rpd at afrinic.net> <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>, rpd List
>>     <rpd at afrinic.net> <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>
>>     *Subject: *Re: [rpd] Opposing the last call made on the review policy
>>
>>      
>>
>>     It's very sad that this policy still lingers like a nightmare
>>     after it has been rejected over and over again. It has
>>     consistently bred anger and mistrust.
>>
>>     Please for the sake of unity, I will advice the chairs to do what
>>     is right by the people. DROP THIS POLICY.
>>
>>      
>>
>>     Cheers
>>
>>     Aleruchi
>>
>>     Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>     <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android>
>>
>>      
>>
>>         On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 at 4:15 am, Daniel Yakmut via RPD
>>
>>         <rpd at afrinic.net> <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net> wrote:
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
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>>         RPD at afrinic.net <mailto:RPD at afrinic.net>
>>         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
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>
>     -- 
>     Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>     mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
>     For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>
>     _______________________________________________
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-- 
Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za

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