<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>If I look at the AFRINIC Web site - I see...</p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals">https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals</a><br>
</p>
<p><img src="cid:part1.CB328929.A7EB290C@posix.co.za" alt=""
class="" width="721" height="225"></p>
<p>This shows there has been no updates to the "Internet Number
Resources review" policy - so how can it ever pass to last call if
there hasn't been any changes? All the old arguments still stand
against it!</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/1/18 10:21 AM, Timothy Ola
Akinfenwa wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAL1GxKRjjbjfFKYXWfO6xaNweY_JUjku7bkK5ZS94jnGb8PRVw@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Hello Mark,</div>
<div dir="auto">See responses in-line <br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr">On Sat, 1 Dec 2018, 8:52 AM Mark Elkins <<a
href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" moz-do-not-send="true">mje@posix.co.za</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0

.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>From what Andrew is saying - the policy should never
have gone to last call if there have been no changes.
That's how the PDP process is meant to work. In
reality - if the whole community accepted seeing a
policy for the second time - then fair enough - but
that is NOT the case here. I strongly oppose this
policy. I have also watched the antics of the people
pushing this policy and I think it was extremely rude
and totally out of place for one of their party to
call someone else in the room a "visitor" - suggesting
that that other person had no rights to be present.
The person being subjected to this treatment provided
much needed input (and policies) to the Policy
Development Process - especially regarding IPv6 -
which is our future.<br>
We should have no place for Name Calling. <br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><font color="#2196f3">Not speaking for the
person here, but I remembered watching it remotely where the
said person clarified his statement. </font></div>
<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0

.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p> </p>
<p>I never heard an apology either.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><font color="#2196f3">I think you should watch
again, the person apologised if his statement has been
misinterpreted and even heard applause from the room
afterwards. <br>
</font></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>For clarity, this was Alain calling Jordi a visitor in what
seemed like an unpleasant connotation. I distinctly remember the
audience unfortunately applauding at his remark. Chatting to
others in the room since then - no apology was made. They were
also taken aback by the episode.<br>
</p>
<p>I was both listening for the whole day (and the day before and
after) and also logged in on the Chat system.<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAL1GxKRjjbjfFKYXWfO6xaNweY_JUjku7bkK5ZS94jnGb8PRVw@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0

.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Anyway - I believe that the PDP Co-Chairs have made a
mistake and this Policy has not reached a positive
Consensus (actually quite the opposite to Positive).
It should not be at last call. <br>
</p>
<p>The Policy - if used - is also extremely dangerous to
the existence and financial well being of the Company
(AFRINIC).<br>
It really should be withdrawn.<br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><font color="#2196f3">I thought Staff Assessment
was conducted. I believe this must have been sorted out and
necessary clarification provided.</font></div>
<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0

.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p> </p>
<div class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-cite-prefix">On
12/1/18 9:15 AM, Andrew Alston wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="m_-5349817618761069114WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Sorry – I need to correct
something in my email below –</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I said there were no _<i>substantive</i>_
changes since the last rejection of this policy –
this is inaccurate – there were *<b>NO</b>* -
changes – substantive or otherwise – zero – zip –
none – as per the website which publishes draft 6</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Andrew</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#b5c4df
 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Andrew
Alston <a
class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"><Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Saturday, 1 December 2018 at
09:27<br>
<b>To: </b><a
class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:aleruchichuku@yahoo.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">"aleruchichuku@yahoo.com"</a>
<a
class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:aleruchichuku@yahoo.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"><aleruchichuku@yahoo.com></a>,
Daniel Yakmut <a
class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:yakmutd@googlemail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"><yakmutd@googlemail.com></a>,
Daniel Yakmut via RPD <a
class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"><rpd@afrinic.net></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [rpd] Opposing the last
call made on the review policy</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Aleruchi,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">While I agree with everything
you have said – let us also be pragmatic. This
policy is pushed by the same crowd that walked to
the microphone and agreed at the request of the
community to drop another policy, and then reneged
on it. This policy has been rejected, as has the
soft landing policy, over and over again – yet the
authors do not give a damn about the will of the
community or the good of the community. Go and
watch the videos of the Mauritian policy meeting –
you will notice the same people involved in what
happened there are involved in this policy as
well.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The authors have clearly
demonstrated that they care not a whit about what
this community wants or believes is good for it,
they have demonstrated bad faith, and shown that
the only thing they care about is shoving
something through no matter the consequence – and
the co-chairs have already shown that they either
do not understand the concept of consensus – or
simply do not care. Fact is – there is precedent
on co-chairs being overturned on appeal in another
RIR – and when it happened – the person who was
overturned – ceased to be a co-chair. These
co-chairs however are insistent on a path that
ignores the consensus process, and seem hell bent
on forcing a situation where they are overturned –
yet again – or failing that forcing AfriNIC into
an untenable and potentially costly process beyond
the appeal process.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Reality is – there were _<i>no</i>_
substantive changes to this policy from the last
time it was rejected – and the objections to the
policy that were stated back then have never been
withdrawn, and by lack of changes in the text can
be clearly demonstrated to not have been addressed
– this flies in the very face of the definition of
consensus – the co-chairs however simply do not
care.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Welcome to what our PDP process
has become – the bullying of the minority
supported by co-chairs who do not understand
consensus – to push through agendas that have zero
to do with the good of the community and more to
do with standing your ground to prove that you
can.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">And btw – before I’m attacked –
yes – I have proposed some controversial policies
over the years – fact is – all of them were
withdrawn when the community wanted that.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Andrew</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#b5c4df
 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">aleruchi
chuku via RPD <a
class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"><rpd@afrinic.net></a><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b><a
class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:aleruchichuku@yahoo.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">"aleruchichuku@yahoo.com"</a>
<a
class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:aleruchichuku@yahoo.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"><aleruchichuku@yahoo.com></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Saturday, 1 December 2018 at
07:02<br>
<b>To: </b>Daniel Yakmut <a
class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:yakmutd@googlemail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"><yakmutd@googlemail.com></a>,
Daniel Yakmut via RPD <a
class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"><rpd@afrinic.net></a>,
rpd List <a
class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"><rpd@afrinic.net></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [rpd] Opposing the last
call made on the review policy</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">It's very sad that this policy
still lingers like a nightmare after it has been
rejected over and over again. It has consistently
bred anger and mistrust. </p>
<div
id="m_-5349817618761069114yMail_cursorElementTracker_1543636533105">
<p class="MsoNormal">Please for the sake of unity,
I will advice the chairs to do what is right by
the people. DROP THIS POLICY.</p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-5349817618761069114yMail_cursorElementTracker_1543636789715">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-5349817618761069114yMail_cursorElementTracker_1543636791763">
<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers</p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-5349817618761069114yMail_cursorElementTracker_1543636794622">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Aleruchi</p>
<div
id="m_-5349817618761069114ymail_android_signature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">Sent from Yahoo Mail
on Android</a></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<blockquote
style="margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 at
4:15 am, Daniel Yakmut via RPD</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"><rpd@afrinic.net></a>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid

#6d00f6 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm

15.0pt;margin-top:7.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset
class="m_-5349817618761069114mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
<a class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-signature" cols="72">--
Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa
<a class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">mje@posix.co.za</a> Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ftth.posix.co.za" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a>
</pre>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" moz-do-not-send="true">mje@posix.co.za</a> Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ftth.posix.co.za" moz-do-not-send="true">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a>
</pre>
</body>
</html>