[rpd] RPD Digest, Vol 127, Issue 52

Wed Apr 12 21:12:58 UTC 2017

Hello ornela

Honestly this could be a good thing to do yes the community will be under
sanctions if afrinic revoke the national isp, but it will let the
government to.think twice, in the case of Cameroon how could you explain
that two entire region under the internet shutdown, and the government
don't.care.
Believe if afrinic can.revoke national isp in.Cameroon it will force them
to react.

Best regard
Serge parfait goma

Le 12 avr. 2017 9:12 PM, <rpd-request at afrinic.net> a écrit :

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown
      (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)" (Honest Ornella GANKPA)
   2. Re: New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown
      (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)" (Badru Ntege)
   3. Re: New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown
      (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)" (Bram Fudzulani)
   4. Re: New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown
      (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)" (Badru Ntege)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 20:58:34 +0100
From: Honest Ornella GANKPA <honest1989 at gmail.com>
To: sm+afrinic at elandsys.com
Cc: rpd <rpd at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown
        (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"
Message-ID:
        <CAKZY-5aEGQvWXKsRz_T09f2iPBtL2nG_Rat7iBuV7Z+fgsXQ-w at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi SM,

If Afrinic refuses to provide services and revoke ressources to our
national ISP, it affects a large amount of Benin's internet users. Is that
not punishing Benin's internet users community? It might not be the intent
but has the same effect

Empowering regulators and such might be a more suitable goal for Afrinic in
my opinion

Regards

Honest Ornella GANKPA

2017-04-12 20:33 GMT+01:00 <sm+afrinic at elandsys.com>:

> Hi Honest,
> At 11:09 12-04-2017, Honest Ornella GANKPA wrote:
>
>> So in order to stop internet shutdowns by governments, AFRINIC (whose
>> fundamental role is to promote Internet growth and penetration in
Africa),
>> will now further punish the same community it serves by shutting down
ISP's
>> and alienating the target governments?
>>
>> How does that work? (genuine question)
>>
>
> There isn't any text in the proposal about shutting down Internet Service
> Providers in Africa.
>
> There has been some comments on the thread about the role of Afrinic Ltd.
> According to Afrinic Ltd, it is "responsible for the distribution and
> management of Internet number resources" in this service region.  There is
> currently a policy discussion about the management of IP addresses which
> have been allocated to government agencies.  There was a comment from a
> regulator in which it is mentioned that "The "Anti-Shutdown" Proposal is
an
> excellent start" [1].  I guess that the regulator may have understood that
> it is not about punishing a community.
>
> Regards,
> S. Moonesamy
>
> 1. https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2017/006528.html
>
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 23:05:03 +0300
From: Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com>
To: <mje at posix.co.za>, <rpd at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown
        (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"
Message-ID: <24EF0829-0209-46F2-A25F-34203709AA35 at nftconsult.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On 4/12/17, 9:38 PM, "Mark Elkins" <mje at posix.co.za> wrote:

Not really. The Policy is intended to affect the
people/departments/decision makers that are actually causing a shutdown to
happen.

But governments serve the populace and decisions are made by individuals.
What impact will this policy make on a head of state or internal security
organ of a totalitarian country.??  Who makes a unilateral decision ??

 i.e. - not Universities, Hospitals, Businesses or Joe Public.

If the Government were also to suddenly change (Arab Spring style) then the
ban would also presumably be immediately lifted.

What right do we have to set the moral high ground ??  And who are we ??

 After all - what is the point of AFRINIC (whose fundamental role is to
promote Internet growth and penetration in Africa) servicing governments
who don't allow the people to have Internet service, or who keep switching
it off.

There are many ways of preventing internet access to the masses, starting
with affordability ??  High taxes on internet services, and failure to
provide the conducive environment.  Which condition will you choose ??

 ps. Can someone point me to an article or two that explains the reason why
the anglophones have been denied Internet in the Cameroon.

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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 21:32:51 +0200
From: Bram Fudzulani <bram.fudzulani at angledimension.com>
To: Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com>
Cc: rpd List <rpd at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown
        (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"
Message-ID: <FE46D58E-A64F-47FC-AE6F-CFF01D79503F at angledimension.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

In as much as I am an advocate of internet for everyone, this policy has
far reaching consequences on AFRINIC core values and objectives.

On a side note any RIR currently pursuing the same policy? What are the
lessons learned from those already having suh a policy in place? Otherwise
imposing such policies on governments would be working against a
multistakeholder model around internet governance.

Best Regards
Bram

Sent from my iPhone

> On 12 Apr 2017, at 3:08 PM, Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com>
wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I think we might be over stepping our mandate.
>
> As much as one might try to understand the intent.
>
> AFRINIC IS NOT A POLICING BODY.
> WE DISTRIBUTE NUMBER RESOURCES TO MEMBERS.
>
> WE DEVELOP POLICIES TO HELP THE TECHNICAL OPERATION AND SUSTAINABILITY OF
THE INTERNET.
>
> Now one might fully agree with the intent of the authors but this policy
would work well at the ITU, UN or even AU but not AFRINIC.
>
> On a practical side it has too many subjective conditions.  Each
government has different policies and reasons why they do certain actions.
>
> Who will be the judge ??
>
> What legal protection does AFRINIC have from aggrieved third parties when
they do enforce any part of 13.1. To a particular counrty and it causes
financial loss to a business ??
>
>
> In summary lets focus on our TECHNICAL mandate and leave the politics to
the other international organisations.
>
> Regards
>
> Badru
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> On 4/11/17, 9:43 PM, "SamiSalih" <sami at ntc.gov.sd> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Dear AFRINIC PDWG Members,
>>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> We have received a new policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown
(AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"
>>
>> From the following Authors:
>> a) Andrew Alston  ? Liquid Telecommunications -
andrew.alston at liquidtelecom.com
>> b) Ben Roberts    ? Liquid Telecommunications -
ben.roberts at liquidtelecom.com
>> c) Fiona Asonga   ? TESPOK                    ? tespok at tespok.co.ke
>>
>> Published in this link
>>
>> https://afrinic.net/en/community/policy-development/
policy-proposals/2061-anti-shutdown-01
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> PDWG Co-chairs
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> RPD mailing list
>> RPD at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> RPD mailing list
> RPD at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 23:12:20 +0300
From: Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com>
To: Boubakar Barry <boubakarbarry at gmail.com>, Mark Elkins
        <mje at posix.co.za>
Cc: rpd <rpd at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown
        (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"
Message-ID: <141283DD-E6CA-45DF-A57B-4CED17646851 at nftconsult.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On 4/12/17, 10:24 PM, "Boubakar Barry" <boubakarbarry at gmail.com> wrote:

AfriNIC acting as Internet police?

Looks like as V4 runs out our sustainability plan is to find new roles as
the internet police.

Let's be realistic and, most importantly, humble.

AfriNIC issuing a statement on the discussed issue is one thing; trying to
"punish" governments and all suspected accomplices is a completely
different game.
+1

Boubakar

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 6:38 PM, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za> wrote:

Not really. The Policy is intended to affect the
people/departments/decision makers that are actually causing a shutdown to
happen.
 i.e. - not Universities, Hospitals, Businesses or Joe Public.

If the Government were also to suddenly change (Arab Spring style) then the
ban would also presumably be immediately lifted.

 After all - what is the point of AFRINIC (whose fundamental role is to
promote Internet growth and penetration in Africa) servicing governments
who don't allow the people to have Internet service, or who keep switching
it off.

 ps. Can someone point me to an article or two that explains the reason why
the anglophones have been denied Internet in the Cameroon.

On 12/04/2017 20:09, Honest Ornella GANKPA wrote:

+1 Maya

So in order to stop internet shutdowns by governments, AFRINIC (whose
fundamental role is to promote Internet growth and penetration in Africa),
will now further punish the same community it serves by shutting down ISP's
and alienating the target governments?

How does that work? (genuine question)

Honest Ornella GANKPA

2017-04-12 9:46 GMT+01:00 Maye Diop <mayediop at gmail.com>:

Dear All,
We all accept that this is a big issue and Even if AfGWG does not have any
interference with policy, I would like to remind tthat one Objective of the
Working Group is To strengthen the collaboration between AFRINIC and
African Governments and Regulators to promote sustainable and secure
Internet development in Africa.
Putting in place a discriminatory policy for Government and privating a
country of ressources will  neither help to involve more government on
AFRINIC activities to help them to better understand nor bring any change
if they decided to take decisions to shutdown Internet.

I'll vote for a dedicated high worklevel shop to raise this issue at
regional level.

Best Regards

2017-04-12 5:28 GMT+00:00 Vymala <vymala at afrinic.net>:

Hello Barrack

, i would be keen to understand whether the same has gone through the
AFRINIC  Government working group as Seun has indicated and their views on
the same,

As you know the Community draft Proposals and Policies and AFRINIC does not
interfere in any case in the process.

In this case the  "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)? is
addressing Internet Shutdown and concerns Governments.

There is no policy or proposal that needs to be validated by the AFRINIC
Government Working Group as the AfGWG is a closed and dedicated

forum for Governments, Regulators and LEA?s to discuss on opportunities and
challenges they are facing with regards to the Internet Development in
Africa amongst other.

I hope this clear your question.

Regards

vymala

On 12 Apr 2017, at 6:55 AM, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack at gmail.com> wrote:

Hi colleagues,

Interesting proposal, given the role of governments in our eco-system , i
would be keen to understand whether the same has gone through the AFRINIC
Government working group as Seun has indicated and their views on the same,
i think we should endeavour to keep the Internet on at all costs, any
punitive measure that can result in switching off the Internet or denying
users access in any part of the world is not ideal in my humble opinion.

Regards

On Apr 12, 2017 1:52 AM, "Keshwarsingh Nadan" <kn at millenium.net.mu> wrote:

Moonesawmy

 >In Section 1 of AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01, it is stated that "these
 >shutdowns have been shown to cause economic damage".  Could you
 >please provide some data about the economic damage?

 I confine myself within bounds better suited to my own capacity, perhaps
this could help?

 https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/
intenet-shutdowns-v-3.pdf

 >What is the meaning of "direct provable relationships" in Section 13.1?

 It is my belief that you should unsubscribe from this list since you were
unable to understand the basic meaning of whatever you quoted above.
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 --

---------------------
 Mme Nd?ye Maimouna DIOP
 Sp?cialiste ICT4D

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--
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mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za

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End of RPD Digest, Vol 127, Issue 51
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