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[AfriNIC-rpd] Definitions of LIR versus End User

Duncan Martin ceo at
Sat Jul 21 15:07:48 UTC 2012



From: Nii Narku Quaynor [mailto:quaynor at]
Sent: Sat 2012/07/21 03:41 PM
To: Duncan Martin
Cc: SM; AfriNIC Resource Policy Discussion List
Subject: Re: [AfriNIC-rpd] Definitions of LIR versus End User

Please Martin,

On Jul 21, 2012, at 13:31, "Duncan Martin" <ceo at> wrote:

	Hi Sunday
	By good numbering practices I mean broadly practices that enable systematic aggregation of prefixes in accordance with the CIDR scheme; discourage hoarding of and exaggerated applications for number resources; and reduce the need for systemic dependence upon NAT within organisational networks.

Are you really saying AfriNIC is encouraging hoarding? Disaggregation of prefixes? Increasing dependence on NATs relative to other RIRs?
Nii! Not at all! It is you who insist on imagining prior positions in my mind that have lead me to post what I did. The idea in this thread that I accuse AfriNIC of not promoting good numbering practices is entirely of your invention. 
I asked how AfriNIC's promotion of good numbering practice demands the present fee strucutre for End-Users and LIRs.  I hypothesised that it doesn't.  In three postings you've not attempted any kind of answer. Perhaps someone else will.
Over and out.

	What did you have in mind when you wrote about the "total warp in the AfriNIN fee structure"?


	From: SM [mailto:sm at]
	Sent: Sat 2012/07/21 01:27 PM
	To: Duncan Martin
	Cc: AfriNIC Resource Policy Discussion List
	Subject: RE: [AfriNIC-rpd] Definitions of LIR versus End User

	Hi Duncan,
	At 21:28 20-07-2012, Duncan Martin wrote:
	>The present huge differences between the fees charged to End-Users
	>and those charged to LIRs show that AfriNIC's fees are not based on
	>cost-recovery, as would befit a non-profit entity, but, evidently,
	>on perceptions of the prices and implicit cross-subsidisations that
	>different market segments will tolerate.
	>If definitions of End Users and LIRs and distinctions between End
	>Users and LIRs are indeed required in AfriNIC's fee structures,
	>should these not be justified in terms of AfriNIC's obligations and
	>responsibility as a RIR to ensure/promote good Internet numbering
	>practice in the Region?
	If you think of it there isn't any constraint in existing policies
	about fees.  The contractual agreement uses wording from existing
	policies.  In simple terms you can change the fees without changing
	the policies.  The difference between End-Users and LIRs is more
	about legacy definitions.  I generally ask the person soliciting my
	vote what he or she will do for me.  If the person says that he or
	she will ensure good Internet numbering practices are followed, I
	would not understand what that means.
	Cost recovery and cross-subsidization are two different matters.  How
	would cost recovery be determined assuming that it does not allow for
	any cross-subsidization?

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