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[rpd] AFRINIC PDWG Co-Chair Selection Timeframe

Fernando Frediani fhfrediani at gmail.com
Fri Apr 29 12:04:13 UTC 2022


Exactly, it is so strange the idea to have it only during the in person 
event that I find to weird someone suggesting and insisting it to be 
there. Wasn't it enough the historic that happened already to keep 
insisting in the mistake ?

Fernando

On 29/04/2022 09:00, Arnaud AMELINA wrote:
> Dear Daniel,
>
> the problem with Physical persons present at the meeting is we repeat 
> the mistakes of Kampala where people are shipped into the meeting room 
> during the PPM and given tags and food to vote for certain candidates.
>
> This people often dont even know what AFRINIC or the PDP is and last 
> time we witnessed even National Antems being sang by a crowd that came 
> in to specifically vote for certain candidates
>
> AFRINIC also reported an influx of registration on RPD mailing list 
> which can not be used as a voter register considering the number of 
> sockpuppets who have since registered on the list but are not active 
> participants
>
> Do you want to become a co-chair, how about you come forward and 
> convince the WG openly here on rpd list.
>
> The WG could assess your ability to do the job through your sense of 
> communication, consensus building, conflict management, etc…
>
> --
> Arnaud
>
> Le jeu. 28 avr. 2022 à 17:52, Daniel I. Yakmut 
> <yakmutd at googlemail.com> a écrit :
>
>     Dear Arnaud,
>
>     It cannot be publicly (All Stakeholders) and at the same Resource
>     holder only endorsement.
>
>     Speaking as a Resource Holder, I do not agree with the imposition
>     of Co-Chairs on the mailing list. Let the selection take place
>     during the PPM in Mauritius, I don't have qualms if that will be
>     done by the limited number of persons physically present at the
>     meeting,
>
>     Simply,
>
>     Daniel
>
>     On 28/04/2022 14:32, Arnaud AMELINA wrote:
>>     Hi please see inline
>>
>>     Le mar. 26 avr. 2022 à 15:32, Daniel Yakmut
>>     <yakmutd at googlemail.com> a écrit :
>>
>>         Dear Arnaud
>>         Why do we need a PDWG, if who matters are resource holders. I
>>         will advocate all other persons vacate the membership of the
>>         PDWG and allow the resource holders do what they like and how
>>         they like
>>
>>         However,  if PDWG is a stakeholder arrangement,  then we must
>>         give everyone an equal footing. Let us stop being Hitlers here.
>>
>>         Simply,
>>         Daniel
>>
>>
>>
>>     Hmmmm… Hitler?
>>     His Majesty, Please let not go there. Extremism never built  a
>>     good society.
>>
>>     I never said  that only the ressources members matter
>>
>>     iCP-2  principle (2)  is clear on the importance of the ressource
>>     members in the  « raison d’être »  of a RIR and the bylaws
>>     accepted and defined  the roles and prerogatives of each stakeholder.
>>
>>     I prefer a publicly endorsed co-chair by Resources members to a
>>     rogue and conflicted co-chair serving hidden agenda and third
>>     party motives.
>>
>>     Why  is this a big issue when the final selection of the
>>     co-chairs is made by the WG?
>>
>>     Arnaud
>>
>>
>>         On Tue, 26 Apr 2022, 12:07 Arnaud AMELINA,
>>         <amelnaud at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>             Hummm ! my comments inline
>>
>>             Le lun. 25 avr. 2022 à 13:27, ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE
>>             <oloyede.aa at unilorin.edu.ng> a écrit :
>>
>>                 Dear all,
>>
>>
>>                 I have tried as much as possible not to make a
>>                 comment but it seems I have to comment on this as I
>>                 would also be making a comment on the other impunity
>>                 the board leadership have decided to plunge AFRINIC
>>                 into recently.
>>                 1.  This timeline is not acceptable because I don't
>>                 know how Co-chairs would emerge via the use of the
>>                 mailing list.
>>
>>
>>             We keep repeating ourselves.
>>
>>             You do know how Policy discussions and decisions are made
>>             on the ML, but somehow you do not know how the selection
>>             of Co-chairs to take on the administrative  support role
>>             of the Working Group, happens on the same mailinglist.
>>
>>                 It was tried last time what we ended up having are
>>                 impostors.
>>
>>
>>             Impostors ?  These two interim co-chairs are respectable
>>             community members with proven reputation and expertise
>>             who have done a great service so far and  I am sure, WG
>>             participants would want them to continue.
>>
>>                 Two people who claimed they emerged as consensus
>>                 candidates when some others on the mailing did not
>>                 agree.  I see no consensus in the process.
>>
>>
>>             Looks like you still have a problem with understanding
>>             “consensus”
>>
>>             Do “objections” mean de facto ”no consensus”?
>>
>>                   Then I object to criteria J. I see no reason for
>>                 this. Endorsement from resource members shows some
>>                 form of affiliation.
>>
>>
>>             Affiliation to who? Resource members are the main
>>             stakeholders here, accountable to the global community.
>>
>>             The community has witnessed sponsored Co-chairs before
>>             who were supposed to be participating as individuals
>>             without motives.
>>
>>                 co-chairs are not expected to be endorsed this way.
>>
>>
>>             Who says so ?  Even though resources members are also
>>             part of the community, they are the direct affected
>>             parties by policies and decisions made by the PDP.
>>
>>             As a known and well organised stakeholders, I see nothing
>>             wrong with them endorsing co-chairs or even endorsing
>>             draft policy proposals.
>>
>>
>>                 @OWEN: I hope i am not eligible to be a board member yet
>>                 Cheers
>>
>>                 AK
>>
>>
>>             --
>>             Arnaud
>>
>>
>>
>>                 On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 6:37 AM Owen DeLong via RPD
>>                 <rpd at afrinic.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>                     On Apr 23, 2022, at 09:09 , Daniel Yakmut via
>>>                     RPD <rpd at afrinic.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>                     Dear Sylvain,
>>>
>>>                     You answered my questions,  we can do things
>>>                     when and how we like it. It clearly also shows
>>>                     that we can interpret laws and rules at our
>>>                     whims and caprices.
>>>
>>>                     As I can see the spirit of the letters of the
>>>                     CPM does not matter anymore.
>>>
>>>                     The world is a jungle indeed.
>>>
>>
>>                     With beliefs like this, you are now eligible to
>>                     be a member of the AFRINIC board.
>>
>>                     Owen
>>
>>>                     Simply,
>>>                     Daniel
>>>
>>>                     On Fri, 22 Apr 2022, 18:32 Sylvain Baya,
>>>                     <abscoco at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>                         Dear PDWG,
>>>                         Hope this email finds you in good health!
>>>
>>>                         Please see my comments below, inline...
>>>
>>>                         Le vendredi 22 avril 2022, Daniel I. Yakmut
>>>                         via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net> a écrit :
>>>
>>>                             Dear All,
>>>
>>>
>>>                         Hi Daniel,
>>>                         Thanks for your email, brother!
>>>
>>>                             Have we amended the process of
>>>                             selecting/nominating/electing Co-Chairs
>>>                             now?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>                         Please process are you refering to?
>>>
>>>                         Remember that we had agreed that the procedure
>>>                         available to replace PDWG's Chairs is very
>>>                         open;
>>>                         and it's not seems to be a bug in the actual
>>>                         version
>>>                          (1.6) of the PDP [1].
>>>                         __
>>>                         [1]:
>>>                         <https://afrinic.net/policy/manual/amp#PDP-Process>
>>>
>>>                         As you know, the appropriate words are:
>>>                         *choose*,
>>>                         *nominate*, *select*, *selection*; and each
>>>                         of those
>>>                          correspond to a particular situation about
>>>                         PDWG
>>>                         Chairs' tenure and replacement.
>>>
>>>                         Of course, in case of a replacement after a
>>>                         full
>>>                         mandate, the appropriate term is: "*nominate*
>>>                         during the PPM". Is it preventing the PDWG
>>>                         to do
>>>                         whatever it see fit before the PPM; in order to
>>>                         ensure itself that the *nomination* is
>>>                         successfully
>>>                         conducted during the up coming PPM?
>>>
>>>                         That's the question!
>>>
>>>                         <paste_CPM_section_3.3>
>>>
>>>
>>>                               3.3  The Policy Development Working
>>>                               Group (PDWG)
>>>
>>>                         The Policy Development Working Group (PDWG)
>>>                         discusses the proposals. Anyone may
>>>                         participate via the Internet or in person.
>>>                         PDWG work is carried out through the
>>>                         Resource Policy Discussion mailing list
>>>                         (rpd at afrinic.net) and the bi-annual AFRINIC
>>>                         Public Policy Meetings (PPM). Any person,
>>>                         participating either in person or remotely,
>>>                         is considered to be part of the Policy
>>>                         Development Working Group.
>>>
>>>                         The Policy Development Working Group has two
>>>                         Chairs to perform its administrative
>>>                         functions. The PDWG Chairs are chosen by the
>>>                         AFRINIC community during the Public Policy
>>>                         Meeting and serve staggered two-year terms.
>>>                         The term ends during the first Public Policy
>>>                         Meeting corresponding to the end of the term
>>>                         for which they were appointed. A term may
>>>                         begin or end no sooner than the first day of
>>>                         the Public Policy Meeting and no later than
>>>                         the last day of the Public Policy Meeting as
>>>                         determined by the mutual agreement of the
>>>                         current Chair and the new Chair.
>>>
>>>                         If the Working Group Chair is unable to
>>>                         serve his or her full term, the Working
>>>                         Group may select a replacement to serve the
>>>                         remainder of the term. If the Working Group
>>>                         Chairs are unable to attend the Public
>>>                         Policy Meeting, the Working Group shall
>>>                         nominate a Chair for the session. Anyone
>>>                         present at the meeting, whether in person or
>>>                         by remote participation, may participate in
>>>                         the selection process for a temporary Chair.
>>>
>>>                         </paste_CPM_section_3.3>
>>>
>>>                             Because the proposed activities and
>>>                             timeline looks extremely strange to me.
>>>
>>>
>>>                         Please, could you elaborate on what you see as
>>>                         strange?
>>>
>>>
>>>                             However, if I am missing something,
>>>                             please can i be referred to the reviewed
>>>                             (new) document that says we can now
>>>                             select/nominate/elect co-chairs on the
>>>                             mailing list.
>>>
>>>
>>>                         It's clearly not about a formal document/DPP :-/
>>>
>>>                         But if you want, feel free to propose a DPP to
>>>                         clarify what appeares to be void into the
>>>                         running
>>>                          version of the CPM.
>>>
>>>                         ...i agree that the *nomination* is done
>>>                         during the
>>>                          PPM, per CPM section 3.3, but what's
>>>                         preventing
>>>                         the PDWG to consensually prepare its success
>>>                         beforehand? It's exactely what's happening
>>>                         right
>>>                         now, imho!
>>>                         Please, see also early comment above.
>>>
>>>                             Someone like me is beginning to loose
>>>                             interest
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>                         ...i understand your say, and i sympatize,
>>>                         brother;
>>>                         but i don't think it's actually the case.
>>>
>>>                         It's rather a PDP flexibility which allows
>>>                         the PDWG
>>>                         to consensually and freely do things that
>>>                         could ameliorate its difficult conditions...
>>>
>>>                              with us conducting our activities
>>>                             without a standing guide.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>                         If you don't like that, still, interesting
>>>                         flexibility,
>>>                         imho! then i encourage you to submit a DPP.
>>>
>>>                             Clarifications on  is important and urgent.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>                         ...i hope this clarifies something!
>>>
>>>                         Also, i thank the Policy Liaison Team for the
>>>                         welcomed support provided to the PDWG to
>>>                         guarantee a soft transition to a new PDWG's
>>>                         Chair.
>>>
>>>                         Shalom,
>>>                         --sb.
>>>
>>>                             Simply,
>>>
>>>                             Daniel
>>>
>>>                             On 21/04/2022 19:08, AFRINIC Policy
>>>                             Liaison wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                             **
>>>>
>>>>                             *Dear PDWG,*
>>>>                             *
>>>>                             [...]
>>>>                             *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>                         -- 
>>>
>>>                         Best Regards !
>>>                         __
>>>                         baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT
>>>                         cm]|<https://cmnog.cm/dokuwiki/Structure>
>>>                         Subscribe to Mailing List:
>>>                         <https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/>
>>>                         __
>>>                         #‎LASAINTEBIBLE‬|#‎Romains15‬:33«Que LE
>>>                         ‪#‎DIEU‬ de ‪#‎Paix‬ soit avec vous tous!
>>>                         ‪#‎Amen‬!»
>>>                         ‪#‎MaPrière‬ est que tu naisses de nouveau.
>>>                         #Chrétiennement‬
>>>                         «Comme une biche soupire après des courants
>>>                         d’eau, ainsi mon âme soupire après TOI, ô
>>>                         DIEU!»(#Psaumes42:2)
>>>
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