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[rpd] AFRINIC PDWG Co-Chair Selection Timeframe
ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE
oloyede.aa at unilorin.edu.ng
Sat Apr 30 03:04:00 UTC 2022
Hi ,
The problem here is we cannot agree on the method to use. We basically
have two ideas.
Why not we alternate between these two ideas.
The last time we used a method the next one we use another. That way maybe
sometimes down the line we would reach an agreement as the best method to
use.
This way everyone can be happy I think.
Cheers
AK
On Fri, 29 Apr 2022, 13:09 Fernando Frediani, <fhfrediani at gmail.com> wrote:
> Exactly, it is so strange the idea to have it only during the in person
> event that I find to weird someone suggesting and insisting it to be there.
> Wasn't it enough the historic that happened already to keep insisting in
> the mistake ?
>
> Fernando
> On 29/04/2022 09:00, Arnaud AMELINA wrote:
>
> Dear Daniel,
>
> the problem with Physical persons present at the meeting is we repeat the
> mistakes of Kampala where people are shipped into the meeting room during
> the PPM and given tags and food to vote for certain candidates.
>
> This people often dont even know what AFRINIC or the PDP is and last time
> we witnessed even National Antems being sang by a crowd that came in to
> specifically vote for certain candidates
>
> AFRINIC also reported an influx of registration on RPD mailing list which
> can not be used as a voter register considering the number of sockpuppets
> who have since registered on the list but are not active participants
>
> Do you want to become a co-chair, how about you come forward and convince
> the WG openly here on rpd list.
>
> The WG could assess your ability to do the job through your sense of
> communication, consensus building, conflict management, etc…
>
> --
> Arnaud
>
> Le jeu. 28 avr. 2022 à 17:52, Daniel I. Yakmut <yakmutd at googlemail.com> a
> écrit :
>
>> Dear Arnaud,
>>
>> It cannot be publicly (All Stakeholders) and at the same Resource holder
>> only endorsement.
>>
>> Speaking as a Resource Holder, I do not agree with the imposition of
>> Co-Chairs on the mailing list. Let the selection take place during the PPM
>> in Mauritius, I don't have qualms if that will be done by the limited
>> number of persons physically present at the meeting,
>>
>> Simply,
>>
>> Daniel
>> On 28/04/2022 14:32, Arnaud AMELINA wrote:
>>
>> Hi please see inline
>>
>> Le mar. 26 avr. 2022 à 15:32, Daniel Yakmut <yakmutd at googlemail.com> a
>> écrit :
>>
>>> Dear Arnaud
>>> Why do we need a PDWG, if who matters are resource holders. I will
>>> advocate all other persons vacate the membership of the PDWG and allow the
>>> resource holders do what they like and how they like
>>>
>>> However, if PDWG is a stakeholder arrangement, then we must give
>>> everyone an equal footing. Let us stop being Hitlers here.
>>>
>>> Simply,
>>> Daniel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Hmmmm… Hitler?
>> His Majesty, Please let not go there. Extremism never built a good
>> society.
>>
>> I never said that only the ressources members matter
>>
>> iCP-2 principle (2) is clear on the importance of the ressource members
>> in the « raison d’être » of a RIR and the bylaws accepted and defined
>> the roles and prerogatives of each stakeholder.
>>
>> I prefer a publicly endorsed co-chair by Resources members to a rogue
>> and conflicted co-chair serving hidden agenda and third party motives.
>>
>> Why is this a big issue when the final selection of the co-chairs is
>> made by the WG?
>>
>> Arnaud
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 26 Apr 2022, 12:07 Arnaud AMELINA, <amelnaud at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hummm ! my comments inline
>>>>
>>>> Le lun. 25 avr. 2022 à 13:27, ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE <
>>>> oloyede.aa at unilorin.edu.ng> a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have tried as much as possible not to make a comment but it seems I
>>>>> have to comment on this as I would also be making a comment on the other
>>>>> impunity the board leadership have decided to plunge AFRINIC into recently.
>>>>> 1. This timeline is not acceptable because I don't know how Co-chairs
>>>>> would emerge via the use of the mailing list.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We keep repeating ourselves.
>>>>
>>>> You do know how Policy discussions and decisions are made on the ML,
>>>> but somehow you do not know how the selection of Co-chairs to take on the
>>>> administrative support role of the Working Group, happens on the same
>>>> mailinglist.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> It was tried last time what we ended up having are impostors.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Impostors ? These two interim co-chairs are respectable community
>>>> members with proven reputation and expertise who have done a great service
>>>> so far and I am sure, WG participants would want them to continue.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Two people who claimed they emerged as consensus candidates when some
>>>>> others on the mailing did not agree. I see no consensus in the process.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Looks like you still have a problem with understanding “consensus”
>>>>
>>>> Do “objections” mean de facto ”no consensus”?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Then I object to criteria J. I see no reason for this.
>>>>> Endorsement from resource members shows some form of affiliation.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Affiliation to who? Resource members are the main stakeholders here,
>>>> accountable to the global community.
>>>>
>>>> The community has witnessed sponsored Co-chairs before who were
>>>> supposed to be participating as individuals without motives.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> co-chairs are not expected to be endorsed this way.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Who says so ? Even though resources members are also part of the
>>>> community, they are the direct affected parties by policies and decisions
>>>> made by the PDP.
>>>>
>>>> As a known and well organised stakeholders, I see nothing wrong with
>>>> them endorsing co-chairs or even endorsing draft policy proposals.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> @OWEN: I hope i am not eligible to be a board member yet
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>
>>>>> AK
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Arnaud
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 6:37 AM Owen DeLong via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2022, at 09:09 , Daniel Yakmut via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Sylvain,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You answered my questions, we can do things when and how we like it.
>>>>>> It clearly also shows that we can interpret laws and rules at our whims and
>>>>>> caprices.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I can see the spirit of the letters of the CPM does not matter
>>>>>> anymore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The world is a jungle indeed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With beliefs like this, you are now eligible to be a member of the
>>>>>> AFRINIC board.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Owen
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Simply,
>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 22 Apr 2022, 18:32 Sylvain Baya, <abscoco at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear PDWG,
>>>>>>> Hope this email finds you in good health!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please see my comments below, inline...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Le vendredi 22 avril 2022, Daniel I. Yakmut via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net>
>>>>>>> a écrit :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear All,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Daniel,
>>>>>>> Thanks for your email, brother!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Have we amended the process of selecting/nominating/electing
>>>>>>>> Co-Chairs now?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please process are you refering to?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Remember that we had agreed that the procedure
>>>>>>> available to replace PDWG's Chairs is very open;
>>>>>>> and it's not seems to be a bug in the actual version
>>>>>>> (1.6) of the PDP [1].
>>>>>>> __
>>>>>>> [1]: <https://afrinic.net/policy/manual/amp#PDP-Process>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As you know, the appropriate words are: *choose*,
>>>>>>> *nominate*, *select*, *selection*; and each of those
>>>>>>> correspond to a particular situation about PDWG
>>>>>>> Chairs' tenure and replacement.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course, in case of a replacement after a full
>>>>>>> mandate, the appropriate term is: "*nominate*
>>>>>>> during the PPM". Is it preventing the PDWG to do
>>>>>>> whatever it see fit before the PPM; in order to
>>>>>>> ensure itself that the *nomination* is successfully
>>>>>>> conducted during the up coming PPM?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's the question!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <paste_CPM_section_3.3>
>>>>>>> 3.3 The Policy Development Working Group (PDWG)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Policy Development Working Group (PDWG) discusses the proposals.
>>>>>>> Anyone may participate via the Internet or in person. PDWG work is carried
>>>>>>> out through the Resource Policy Discussion mailing list (
>>>>>>> rpd at afrinic.net) and the bi-annual AFRINIC Public Policy Meetings
>>>>>>> (PPM). Any person, participating either in person or remotely, is
>>>>>>> considered to be part of the Policy Development Working Group.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Policy Development Working Group has two Chairs to perform its
>>>>>>> administrative functions. The PDWG Chairs are chosen by the AFRINIC
>>>>>>> community during the Public Policy Meeting and serve staggered two-year
>>>>>>> terms. The term ends during the first Public Policy Meeting corresponding
>>>>>>> to the end of the term for which they were appointed. A term may begin or
>>>>>>> end no sooner than the first day of the Public Policy Meeting and no later
>>>>>>> than the last day of the Public Policy Meeting as determined by the mutual
>>>>>>> agreement of the current Chair and the new Chair.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If the Working Group Chair is unable to serve his or her full term,
>>>>>>> the Working Group may select a replacement to serve the remainder of the
>>>>>>> term. If the Working Group Chairs are unable to attend the Public Policy
>>>>>>> Meeting, the Working Group shall nominate a Chair for the session. Anyone
>>>>>>> present at the meeting, whether in person or by remote participation, may
>>>>>>> participate in the selection process for a temporary Chair.
>>>>>>> </paste_CPM_section_3.3>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Because the proposed activities and timeline looks extremely
>>>>>>>> strange to me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please, could you elaborate on what you see as
>>>>>>> strange?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> However, if I am missing something, please can i be referred to the
>>>>>>>> reviewed (new) document that says we can now select/nominate/elect
>>>>>>>> co-chairs on the mailing list.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's clearly not about a formal document/DPP :-/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But if you want, feel free to propose a DPP to
>>>>>>> clarify what appeares to be void into the running
>>>>>>> version of the CPM.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...i agree that the *nomination* is done during the
>>>>>>> PPM, per CPM section 3.3, but what's preventing
>>>>>>> the PDWG to consensually prepare its success
>>>>>>> beforehand? It's exactely what's happening right
>>>>>>> now, imho!
>>>>>>> Please, see also early comment above.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Someone like me is beginning to loose interest
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...i understand your say, and i sympatize, brother;
>>>>>>> but i don't think it's actually the case.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's rather a PDP flexibility which allows the PDWG
>>>>>>> to consensually and freely do things that could ameliorate its
>>>>>>> difficult conditions...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> with us conducting our activities without a standing guide.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you don't like that, still, interesting flexibility,
>>>>>>> imho! then i encourage you to submit a DPP.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Clarifications on is important and urgent.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...i hope this clarifies something!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, i thank the Policy Liaison Team for the
>>>>>>> welcomed support provided to the PDWG to
>>>>>>> guarantee a soft transition to a new PDWG's Chair.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Shalom,
>>>>>>> --sb.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Simply,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>>>> On 21/04/2022 19:08, AFRINIC Policy Liaison wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Dear PDWG,*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> * [...] *
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best Regards !
>>>>>>> __
>>>>>>> baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]|<https://cmnog.cm/dokuwiki/Structure>
>>>>>>> Subscribe to Mailing List: <
>>>>>>> https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/>
>>>>>>> __
>>>>>>> #LASAINTEBIBLE|#Romains15:33«Que LE #DIEU de #Paix soit
>>>>>>> avec vous tous! #Amen!»
>>>>>>> #MaPrière est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chrétiennement
>>>>>>> «Comme une biche soupire après des courants d’eau, ainsi mon âme
>>>>>>> soupire après TOI, ô DIEU!»(#Psaumes42:2)
>>>>>>>
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