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<p>Exactly, it is so strange the idea to have it only during the in
person event that I find to weird someone suggesting and insisting
it to be there. Wasn't it enough the historic that happened
already to keep insisting in the mistake ?</p>
<p>Fernando<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 29/04/2022 09:00, Arnaud AMELINA
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAGDMR_cCJGpzZOq+vtt7gNDtCud7i+HB2PNZg=My6yqg5ZF=Mw@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">Dear Daniel, </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">the problem with Physical persons present at the
meeting is we repeat the mistakes of Kampala where people are
shipped into the meeting room during the PPM and given tags
and food to vote for certain candidates. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">This people often dont even know what AFRINIC or
the PDP is and last time we witnessed even National Antems
being sang by a crowd that came in to specifically vote for
certain candidates</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">AFRINIC also reported an influx of registration
on RPD mailing list which can not be used as a voter register
considering the number of sockpuppets who have since
registered on the list but are not active participants</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Do you want to become a co-chair, how about you
come forward and convince the WG openly here on rpd list.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The WG could assess your ability to do the job
through your sense of communication, consensus building,
conflict management, etc…</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">--</div>
<div dir="auto">Arnaud </div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le jeu. 28 avr. 2022 à 17:52,
Daniel I. Yakmut <<a href="mailto:yakmutd@googlemail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">yakmutd@googlemail.com</a>>
a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Dear Arnaud,</p>
<p>It cannot be publicly (All Stakeholders) and at the same
Resource holder only endorsement.</p>
<p>Speaking as a Resource Holder, I do not agree with the
imposition of Co-Chairs on the mailing list. Let the
selection take place during the PPM in Mauritius, I don't
have qualms if that will be done by the limited number of
persons physically present at the meeting,</p>
<p>Simply,</p>
<p>Daniel<br>
</p>
<div>On 28/04/2022 14:32, Arnaud AMELINA wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Hi please see inline</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le mar. 26 avr. 2022
à 15:32, Daniel Yakmut <<a
href="mailto:yakmutd@googlemail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">yakmutd@googlemail.com</a>>
a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">Dear Arnaud
<div dir="auto">Why do we need a PDWG, if who
matters are resource holders. I will advocate
all other persons vacate the membership of the
PDWG and allow the resource holders do what they
like and how they like</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">However, if PDWG is a stakeholder
arrangement, then we must give everyone an
equal footing. Let us stop being Hitlers here.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Simply,</div>
<div dir="auto">Daniel</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="auto">Hmmmm… Hitler? </div>
<div dir="auto">His Majesty, Please let not go
there. Extremism never built a good society. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I never said that only the
ressources members matter </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">iCP-2 principle (2) is clear on
the importance of the ressource members in the «
raison d’être » of a RIR and the bylaws accepted
and defined the roles and prerogatives of each
stakeholder.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I prefer a publicly endorsed
co-chair by Resources members to a rogue and
conflicted co-chair serving hidden agenda and
third party motives.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Why is this a big issue when the
final selection of the co-chairs is made by the
WG?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Arnaud</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 26 Apr
2022, 12:07 Arnaud AMELINA, <<a
href="mailto:amelnaud@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">amelnaud@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hummm ! my comments inline<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le lun. 25
avr. 2022 à 13:27, ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE <<a
href="mailto:oloyede.aa@unilorin.edu.ng"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">oloyede.aa@unilorin.edu.ng</a>>
a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Dear all,
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>I have tried as much as possible
not to make a comment but it seems I
have to comment on this as I would
also be making a comment on the
other impunity the board leadership
have decided to plunge AFRINIC into
recently. </div>
<div>1. This timeline is not
acceptable because I don't know how
Co-chairs would emerge via the use
of the mailing list.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="auto">We keep repeating
ourselves. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">You do know how Policy
discussions and decisions are made on
the ML, but somehow you do not know how
the selection of Co-chairs to take on
the administrative support role of the
Working Group, happens on the same
mailinglist. <br>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div> It was tried last time what we
ended up having are impostors.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Impostors ? These two interim
co-chairs are respectable community
members with proven reputation and
expertise who have done a great service so
far and I am sure, WG participants would
want them to continue.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div> Two people who claimed they
emerged as consensus candidates when
some others on the mailing did not
agree. I see no consensus in the
process.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="auto">Looks like you still have
a problem with understanding
“consensus” </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Do “objections” mean de
facto ”no consensus”? <br>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div> Then I object to criteria J. I
see no reason for this.
Endorsement from resource members
shows some form of affiliation.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="auto">Affiliation to who?
Resource members are the main
stakeholders here, accountable to the
global community. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The community has
witnessed sponsored Co-chairs before who
were supposed to be participating as
individuals without motives.</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div> co-chairs are not expected to be
endorsed this way. </div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="auto">Who says so ? Even though
resources members are also part of the
community, they are the direct affected
parties by policies and decisions made
by the PDP. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">As a known and well
organised stakeholders, I see nothing
wrong with them endorsing co-chairs or
even endorsing draft policy proposals.
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>@OWEN: I hope i am not eligible
to be a board member yet</div>
<div>Cheers </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>AK</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>--<br>
</div>
<div>Arnaud<br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 6:37 AM Owen
DeLong via RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div><br>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Apr 23, 2022, at 09:09 ,
Daniel Yakmut via RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="auto">Dear Sylvain,
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">You answered
my questions, we can do
things when and how we
like it. It clearly also
shows that we can
interpret laws and rules
at our whims and caprices.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">As I can see
the spirit of the letters
of the CPM does not matter
anymore. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The world is
a jungle indeed. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
With beliefs like this, you are
now eligible to be a member of the
AFRINIC board.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Owen</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">Simply,</div>
<div dir="auto">Daniel</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr">On Fri,
22 Apr 2022, 18:32 Sylvain
Baya, <<a
href="mailto:abscoco@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer
noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">abscoco@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Dear
PDWG,
<div>Hope this email finds
you in good health!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please see my
comments below,
inline...</div>
<div><br>
Le vendredi 22 avril
2022, Daniel I. Yakmut
via RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
rel="noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> a écrit :<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Dear All,</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Hi Daniel,</div>
<div>Thanks for your
email, brother!</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Have we amended
the process of
selecting/nominating/electing
Co-Chairs now? </p>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please process are
you refering to?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Remember that we
had agreed that the
procedure </div>
<div>available to
replace PDWG's Chairs
is very open; </div>
<div>and it's not seems
to be a bug in the
actual version</div>
<div> (1.6) of the PDP
[1].</div>
<div>__</div>
<div>[1]: <<a
href="https://afrinic.net/policy/manual/amp#PDP-Process"
rel="noreferrer
noreferrer
noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://afrinic.net/policy/manual/amp#PDP-Process</a>></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As you know, the
appropriate words are:
*choose*, </div>
<div>*nominate*,
*select*, *selection*;
and each of those</div>
<div> correspond to a
particular situation
about PDWG </div>
<div>Chairs' tenure and
replacement.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Of course, in case
of a replacement after
a full </div>
<div>mandate, the
appropriate term is:
"*nominate* </div>
<div>during the PPM". Is
it preventing the PDWG
to do </div>
<div>whatever it see fit
before the PPM; in
order to </div>
<div>ensure itself that
the *nomination* is
successfully </div>
<div>conducted during
the up coming PPM?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That's the
question!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><paste_CPM_section_3.3></div>
<div>
<h3
style="padding:0.5em;font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:1em;background-image:none;background-color:rgb(110,151,204);color:rgb(51,51,51);background-position:0%
0%">3.3 The Policy
Development Working
Group (PDWG)</h3>
<p
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px">The
Policy Development
Working Group (PDWG)
discusses the
proposals. Anyone
may participate via
the Internet or in
person. PDWG work is
carried out through
the Resource Policy
Discussion mailing
list (<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);text-decoration-line:underline"
rel="noreferrer
noreferrer
noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rpd@afrinic.net</a>) and the bi-annual
AFRINIC Public
Policy Meetings
(PPM). Any person,
participating either
in person or
remotely, is
considered to be
part of the Policy
Development Working
Group.</p>
<p
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px">The
Policy Development
Working Group has
two Chairs to
perform its
administrative
functions. The PDWG
Chairs are chosen by
the AFRINIC
community during the
Public Policy
Meeting and serve
staggered two-year
terms. The term ends
during the first
Public Policy
Meeting
corresponding to the
end of the term for
which they were
appointed. A term
may begin or end no
sooner than the
first day of the
Public Policy
Meeting and no later
than the last day of
the Public Policy
Meeting as
determined by the
mutual agreement of
the current Chair
and the new Chair.</p>
<p
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px">If
the Working Group
Chair is unable to
serve his or her
full term, the
Working Group may
select a replacement
to serve the
remainder of the
term. If the Working
Group Chairs are
unable to attend the
Public Policy
Meeting, the Working
Group shall nominate
a Chair for the
session. Anyone
present at the
meeting, whether in
person or by remote
participation, may
participate in the
selection process
for a temporary
Chair.</p>
</div>
<div></paste_CPM_section_3.3></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px
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<div>
<p>Because the
proposed
activities and
timeline looks
extremely strange
to me. </p>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div> </div>
<div>Please, could you
elaborate on what you
see as </div>
<div>strange?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>However, if I am
missing something,
please can i be
referred to the
reviewed (new)
document that says
we can now
select/nominate/elect
co-chairs on the
mailing list.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div> </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It's clearly not
about a formal
document/DPP :-/</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But if you want,
feel free to propose a
DPP to </div>
<div>clarify what
appeares to be void
into the running</div>
<div> version of the
CPM.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>...i agree that the
*nomination* is done
during the</div>
<div> PPM, per CPM
section 3.3, but
what's preventing </div>
<div>the PDWG to
consensually prepare
its success </div>
<div>beforehand? It's
exactely what's
happening right </div>
<div>now, imho!</div>
<div>Please, see also
early comment above.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px
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<div>
<p>Someone like me
is beginning to
loose interest</p>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>...i understand
your say, and i
sympatize, brother; </div>
<div>but i don't think
it's actually the
case.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It's rather a PDP
flexibility which
allows the PDWG </div>
<div>to consensually and
freely do things that
could ameliorate its
difficult
conditions...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p> with us
conducting our
activities without
a standing
guide. </p>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If you don't like
that, still,
interesting
flexibility, </div>
<div>imho! then i
encourage you to
submit a DPP.</div>
<div> </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Clarifications
on is important
and urgent.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>...i hope this
clarifies something!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, i thank the
Policy Liaison Team
for the </div>
<div>welcomed support
provided to the PDWG
to </div>
<div>guarantee a soft
transition to a new
PDWG's Chair.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Shalom,</div>
<div>--sb.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<p>Simply,</p>
<p>Daniel<br>
</p>
<div>On 21/04/2022
19:08, AFRINIC
Policy Liaison
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
type="cite">
<p><font
face="Arial"><b
style="font-weight:normal"> </b></font></p>
<div
style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><font
face="Arial"><b
style="font-weight:normal"><span style="font-size:11pt;background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Dear PDWG,</span></b></font></div>
<font face="Arial"><b
style="font-weight:normal"><br>
<div
style="line-height:1.38;text-align:justify;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">[...]</span></div>
</b></font></blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<p>Best Regards !<br>
__<br>
baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG
DOT cm]|<<a
href="https://cmnog.cm/dokuwiki/Structure"
rel="noreferrer
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__<br>
#LASAINTEBIBLE|#Romains15:33«Que LE #DIEU de #Paix soit avec
vous tous! #Amen!»<br>
#MaPrière est que tu
naisses de nouveau.
#Chrétiennement<br>
«Comme une biche soupire
après des courants
d’eau, ainsi mon âme
soupire après TOI, ô
DIEU!»(#Psaumes42:2)<br>
<br>
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<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
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