[rpd] AFRINIC PDWG Co-Chair Selection Timeframe

Tue Apr 26 17:16:09 UTC 2022

> On Apr 26, 2022, at 05:02 , Arnaud AMELINA <amelnaud at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hummm ! my comments inline
> 
> Le lun. 25 avr. 2022 à 13:27, ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE <oloyede.aa at unilorin.edu.ng <mailto:oloyede.aa at unilorin.edu.ng>> a écrit :
> Dear all, 
> 
> 
> I have tried as much as possible not to make a comment but it seems I have to comment on this as I would also be making a comment on the other impunity the board leadership have decided to plunge AFRINIC into recently. 
> 1.  This timeline is not acceptable because I don't know how Co-chairs would emerge via the use of the mailing list.
> 
> We keep repeating ourselves.   
> 
> You do know how Policy discussions and decisions are made on the ML, but somehow you do not know how the selection of Co-chairs to take on the administrative  support role of the Working Group, happens on the same mailinglist. 

The PDP provides for this when it comes to policies… It makes no allowance for it in regards to the selection of co-chairs.

I believe this is his point, though he is perhaps being too polite in how he expresses it…

Attempting to select co-chairs on the mailing list is a violation of the terms in the CPM. If we want to change the selection process, then we should have a policy proposal to do so and let the community debate, discuss, and ultimately come to consensus (or not) around it. Unless and until that happens, the mechanism for selecting co-chairs should not be altered ad hoc.

>  
> It was tried last time what we ended up having are impostors.
> 
> Impostors ?  These two interim co-chairs are respectable community members with proven reputation and expertise who have done a great service so far and  I am sure, WG participants would want them to continue.

Clearly there are multiple perspectives on this. One person’s idea of a “great service” is another person’s idea of tremendous disservice. FWIW, I am neither impressed, nor angered by the performance of the current co-chairs. There are things they could have done better, there are things they could have done worse.

>  
> Two people who claimed they emerged as consensus candidates when some others on the mailing did not agree.  I see no consensus in the process.
> 
> Looks like you still have a problem with understanding “consensus” 
> 
> Do “objections” mean de facto ”no consensus”? 

Technically, yes, that is the definition of consensus. Especially when many of those objections went unaddressed.

>   Then I object to criteria J. I see no reason for this. Endorsement from resource members shows some form of affiliation.
> 
> Affiliation to who?  Resource members are the main stakeholders here, accountable to the global community.  
> 
> The community has witnessed sponsored Co-chairs before who were supposed to be participating as individuals without motives.

The problem you have here is that criteria J encourages and arguably requires such sponsorship. It sounds to me like you are both arguing against criteria J.
FWIW, I agree, criteria J is a bad idea in general.

> co-chairs are not expected to be endorsed this way. 
> 
> Who says so ?  Even though resources members are also part of the community, they are the direct affected parties by policies and decisions made by the PDP. 

Well, for one, it’s not part of the process as described in the CPM.

> As a known and well organised stakeholders, I see nothing wrong with them endorsing co-chairs or even endorsing draft policy proposals.  

There is nothing wrong with them endorsing.

What is being argued here is not their ability to endorse. What is being argued is that such endorsement is a condition of eligibility to serve as a co-chair.

Owen

>  
> 
> @OWEN: I hope i am not eligible to be a board member yet
> Cheers 
> 
> AK
> 
> 
> --
> Arnaud
>  
> 
> 
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 6:37 AM Owen DeLong via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2022, at 09:09 , Daniel Yakmut via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear Sylvain,
>> 
>> You answered my questions,  we can do things when and how we like it. It clearly also shows that we can interpret laws and rules at our whims and caprices.
>> 
>> As I can see the spirit of the letters of the CPM does not matter anymore. 
>> 
>> The world is a jungle indeed. 
>> 
> 
> With beliefs like this, you are now eligible to be a member of the AFRINIC board.
> 
> Owen
> 
>> Simply,
>> Daniel
>> 
>> On Fri, 22 Apr 2022, 18:32 Sylvain Baya, <abscoco at gmail.com <mailto:abscoco at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Dear PDWG,
>> Hope this email finds you in good health!
>> 
>> Please see my comments below, inline...
>> 
>> Le vendredi 22 avril 2022, Daniel I. Yakmut via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>> a écrit :
>> Dear All,
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Daniel,
>> Thanks for your email, brother!
>>  
>> Have we amended the process of selecting/nominating/electing Co-Chairs now? 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Please process are you refering to?
>> 
>> Remember that we had agreed that the procedure 
>> available to replace PDWG's Chairs is very open; 
>> and it's not seems to be a bug in the actual version
>>  (1.6) of the PDP [1].
>> __
>> [1]: <https://afrinic.net/policy/manual/amp#PDP-Process <https://afrinic.net/policy/manual/amp#PDP-Process>>
>> 
>> As you know, the appropriate words are: *choose*, 
>> *nominate*, *select*, *selection*; and each of those
>>  correspond to a particular situation about PDWG 
>> Chairs' tenure and replacement.
>> 
>> Of course, in case of a replacement after a full 
>> mandate, the appropriate term is: "*nominate* 
>> during the PPM". Is it preventing the PDWG to do 
>> whatever it see fit before the PPM; in order to 
>> ensure itself that the *nomination* is successfully 
>> conducted during the up coming PPM?
>> 
>> That's the question!
>> 
>> <paste_CPM_section_3.3>
>> 3.3   <>The Policy Development Working Group (PDWG)
>> 
>> The Policy Development Working Group (PDWG) discusses the proposals. Anyone may participate via the Internet or in person. PDWG work is carried out through the Resource Policy Discussion mailing list (rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>) and the bi-annual AFRINIC Public Policy Meetings (PPM). Any person, participating either in person or remotely, is considered to be part of the Policy Development Working Group.
>> 
>> The Policy Development Working Group has two Chairs to perform its administrative functions. The PDWG Chairs are chosen by the AFRINIC community during the Public Policy Meeting and serve staggered two-year terms. The term ends during the first Public Policy Meeting corresponding to the end of the term for which they were appointed. A term may begin or end no sooner than the first day of the Public Policy Meeting and no later than the last day of the Public Policy Meeting as determined by the mutual agreement of the current Chair and the new Chair.
>> 
>> If the Working Group Chair is unable to serve his or her full term, the Working Group may select a replacement to serve the remainder of the term. If the Working Group Chairs are unable to attend the Public Policy Meeting, the Working Group shall nominate a Chair for the session. Anyone present at the meeting, whether in person or by remote participation, may participate in the selection process for a temporary Chair.
>> 
>> </paste_CPM_section_3.3>
>> 
>>  
>> Because the proposed activities and timeline looks extremely strange to me. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> Please, could you elaborate on what you see as 
>> strange?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> However, if I am missing something, please can i be referred to the reviewed (new) document that says we can now select/nominate/elect co-chairs on the mailing list.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> It's clearly not about a formal document/DPP :-/
>> 
>> But if you want, feel free to propose a DPP to 
>> clarify what appeares to be void into the running
>>  version of the CPM.
>> 
>> ...i agree that the *nomination* is done during the
>>  PPM, per CPM section 3.3, but what's preventing 
>> the PDWG to consensually prepare its success 
>> beforehand? It's exactely what's happening right 
>> now, imho!
>> Please, see also early comment above.
>> 
>>  
>> Someone like me is beginning to loose interest
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ...i understand your say, and i sympatize, brother; 
>> but i don't think it's actually the case.
>> 
>> It's rather a PDP flexibility which allows the PDWG 
>> to consensually and freely do things that could ameliorate its difficult conditions...
>> 
>>  
>>  with us conducting our activities without a standing guide.  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> If you don't like that, still, interesting flexibility, 
>> imho! then i encourage you to submit a DPP.
>>  
>> 
>> Clarifications on  is important and urgent.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ...i hope this clarifies something!
>> 
>> Also, i thank the Policy Liaison Team for the 
>> welcomed support provided to the PDWG to 
>> guarantee a soft transition to a new PDWG's Chair.
>> 
>> Shalom,
>> --sb.
>> 
>>  
>> Simply,
>> 
>> Daniel
>> 
>> On 21/04/2022 19:08, AFRINIC Policy Liaison wrote:
>>> Dear PDWG,
>>> 
>>> [...]
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Best Regards !
>> __
>> baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]|<https://cmnog.cm/dokuwiki/Structure <https://cmnog.cm/dokuwiki/Structure>>
>> Subscribe to Mailing List: <https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/ <https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/>>
>> __
>> #‎LASAINTEBIBLE‬|#‎Romains15‬:33«Que LE ‪#‎DIEU‬ de ‪#‎Paix‬ soit avec vous tous! ‪#‎Amen‬!»
>> ‪#‎MaPrière‬ est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chrétiennement‬
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>> 
>> 
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