<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Apr 26, 2022, at 05:02 , Arnaud AMELINA <<a href="mailto:amelnaud@gmail.com" class="">amelnaud@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta charset="UTF-8" class=""><div dir="ltr" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><div class="">Hummm ! my comments inline<br class=""></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le lun. 25 avr. 2022 à 13:27, ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE <<a href="mailto:oloyede.aa@unilorin.edu.ng" class="">oloyede.aa@unilorin.edu.ng</a>> a écrit :<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="ltr" class="">Dear all, <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class="">I have tried as much as possible not to make a comment but it seems I have to comment on this as I would also be making a comment on the other impunity the board leadership have decided to plunge AFRINIC into recently. </div><div class="">1. This timeline is not acceptable because I don't know how Co-chairs would emerge via the use of the mailing list.</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="">We keep repeating ourselves. </div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">You do know how Policy discussions and decisions are made on the ML, but somehow you do not know how the selection of Co-chairs to take on the administrative support role of the Working Group, happens on the same mailinglist.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>The PDP provides for this when it comes to policies… It makes no allowance for it in regards to the selection of co-chairs.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>I believe this is his point, though he is perhaps being too polite in how he expresses it…</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Attempting to select co-chairs on the mailing list is a violation of the terms in the CPM. If we want to change the selection process, then we should have a policy proposal to do so and let the community debate, discuss, and ultimately come to consensus (or not) around it. Unless and until that happens, the mechanism for selecting co-chairs should not be altered ad hoc.</div><div><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div class="">It was tried last time what we ended up having are impostors.</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Impostors ? These two interim co-chairs are respectable community members with proven reputation and expertise who have done a great service so far and I am sure, WG participants would want them to continue.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Clearly there are multiple perspectives on this. One person’s idea of a “great service” is another person’s idea of tremendous disservice. FWIW, I am neither impressed, nor angered by the performance of the current co-chairs. There are things they could have done better, there are things they could have done worse.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div class="">Two people who claimed they emerged as consensus candidates when some others on the mailing did not agree. I see no consensus in the process.</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="">Looks like you still have a problem with understanding “consensus” </div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Do “objections” mean de facto ”no consensus”?<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Technically, yes, that is the definition of consensus. Especially when many of those objections went unaddressed.</div><div> <br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="ltr" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Then I object to criteria J. I see no reason for this. Endorsement from resource members shows some form of affiliation.</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="">Affiliation to who? Resource members are the main stakeholders here, accountable to the global community. </div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">The community has witnessed sponsored Co-chairs before who were supposed to be participating as individuals without motives.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>The problem you have here is that criteria J encourages and arguably requires such sponsorship. It sounds to me like you are both arguing against criteria J.</div><div>FWIW, I agree, criteria J is a bad idea in general.</div><div> <br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="ltr" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div class="">co-chairs are not expected to be endorsed this way. </div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="">Who says so ? Even though resources members are also part of the community, they are the direct affected parties by policies and decisions made by the PDP. </div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Well, for one, it’s not part of the process as described in the CPM.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="ltr" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="">As a known and well organised stakeholders, I see nothing wrong with them endorsing co-chairs or even endorsing draft policy proposals. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>There is nothing wrong with them endorsing.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>What is being argued here is not their ability to endorse. What is being argued is that such endorsement is a condition of eligibility to serve as a co-chair.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Owen</div><div><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="ltr" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">@OWEN: I hope i am not eligible to be a board member yet</div><div class="">Cheers </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">AK</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">--<br class=""></div><div class="">Arnaud<br class=""></div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 6:37 AM Owen DeLong via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Apr 23, 2022, at 09:09 , Daniel Yakmut via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="">Dear Sylvain,<div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">You answered my questions, we can do things when and how we like it. It clearly also shows that we can interpret laws and rules at our whims and caprices.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">As I can see the spirit of the letters of the CPM does not matter anymore. </div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">The world is a jungle indeed. </div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>With beliefs like this, you are now eligible to be a member of the AFRINIC board.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Owen</div><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class="">Simply,</div><div dir="auto" class="">Daniel</div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, 22 Apr 2022, 18:32 Sylvain Baya, <<a href="mailto:abscoco@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">abscoco@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">Dear PDWG,<div class="">Hope this email finds you in good health!</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Please see my comments below, inline...</div><div class=""><br class="">Le vendredi 22 avril 2022, Daniel I. Yakmut via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> a écrit :<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=""><p class="">Dear All,</p></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">Hi Daniel,</div><div class="">Thanks for your email, brother!</div></div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=""><p class="">Have we amended the process of selecting/nominating/electing Co-Chairs now? </p><p class=""><br class=""></p></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Please process are you refering to?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Remember that we had agreed that the procedure </div><div class="">available to replace PDWG's Chairs is very open; </div><div class="">and it's not seems to be a bug in the actual version</div><div class=""> (1.6) of the PDP [1].</div><div class="">__</div><div class="">[1]: <<a href="https://afrinic.net/policy/manual/amp#PDP-Process" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://afrinic.net/policy/manual/amp#PDP-Process</a>></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As you know, the appropriate words are: *choose*, </div><div class="">*nominate*, *select*, *selection*; and each of those</div><div class=""> correspond to a particular situation about PDWG </div><div class="">Chairs' tenure and replacement.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Of course, in case of a replacement after a full </div><div class="">mandate, the appropriate term is: "*nominate* </div><div class="">during the PPM". Is it preventing the PDWG to do </div><div class="">whatever it see fit before the PPM; in order to </div><div class="">ensure itself that the *nomination* is successfully </div><div class="">conducted during the up coming PPM?<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">That's the question!</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><paste_CPM_section_3.3></div><div class=""><h3 style="padding: 0.5em; font-family: Roboto, sans-serif; font-size: 1em; background-image: none; background-attachment: scroll; background-color: rgb(110, 151, 204); color: rgb(51, 51, 51); background-position: 0% 0%; background-repeat: repeat repeat;" class="">3.3 <a id="gmail-m_-4572113111700854964gmail-m_923431325350192982m_4746811756887310323PDWG" rel="noreferrer" style="text-decoration-line: underline;" class=""></a>The Policy Development Working Group (PDWG)</h3><p style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Roboto, sans-serif; font-size: 14.4px;" class="">The Policy Development Working Group (PDWG) discusses the proposals. Anyone may participate via the Internet or in person. PDWG work is carried out through the Resource Policy Discussion mailing list (<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); text-decoration-line: underline;" class="">rpd@afrinic.net</a>) and the bi-annual AFRINIC Public Policy Meetings (PPM). Any person, participating either in person or remotely, is considered to be part of the Policy Development Working Group.</p><p style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Roboto, sans-serif; font-size: 14.4px;" class="">The Policy Development Working Group has two Chairs to perform its administrative functions. The PDWG Chairs are chosen by the AFRINIC community during the Public Policy Meeting and serve staggered two-year terms. The term ends during the first Public Policy Meeting corresponding to the end of the term for which they were appointed. A term may begin or end no sooner than the first day of the Public Policy Meeting and no later than the last day of the Public Policy Meeting as determined by the mutual agreement of the current Chair and the new Chair.</p><p style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Roboto, sans-serif; font-size: 14.4px;" class="">If the Working Group Chair is unable to serve his or her full term, the Working Group may select a replacement to serve the remainder of the term. If the Working Group Chairs are unable to attend the Public Policy Meeting, the Working Group shall nominate a Chair for the session. Anyone present at the meeting, whether in person or by remote participation, may participate in the selection process for a temporary Chair.</p></div><div class=""></paste_CPM_section_3.3></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=""><p class="">Because the proposed activities and timeline looks extremely strange to me. </p><p class=""><br class=""></p></div></blockquote><div class=""> </div><div class="">Please, could you elaborate on what you see as </div><div class="">strange?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=""><p class=""><br class=""></p><p class="">However, if I am missing something, please can i be referred to the reviewed (new) document that says we can now select/nominate/elect co-chairs on the mailing list.</p></div></blockquote><div class=""> </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It's clearly not about a formal document/DPP :-/</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">But if you want, feel free to propose a DPP to </div><div class="">clarify what appeares to be void into the running</div><div class=""> version of the CPM.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">...i agree that the *nomination* is done during the</div><div class=""> PPM, per CPM section 3.3, but what's preventing </div><div class="">the PDWG to consensually prepare its success </div><div class="">beforehand? It's exactely what's happening right </div><div class="">now, imho!</div><div class="">Please, see also early comment above.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=""><p class="">Someone like me is beginning to loose interest</p><p class=""><br class=""></p></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">...i understand your say, and i sympatize, brother; </div><div class="">but i don't think it's actually the case.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It's rather a PDP flexibility which allows the PDWG </div><div class="">to consensually and freely do things that could ameliorate its difficult conditions...</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=""><p class=""> with us conducting our activities without a standing guide. </p><p class=""><br class=""></p></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If you don't like that, still, interesting flexibility, </div><div class="">imho! then i encourage you to submit a DPP.</div><div class=""> </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=""><p class="">Clarifications on is important and urgent.</p><p class=""><br class=""></p></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">...i hope this clarifies something!</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Also, i thank the Policy Liaison Team for the </div><div class="">welcomed support provided to the PDWG to </div><div class="">guarantee a soft transition to a new PDWG's Chair.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Shalom,</div><div class="">--sb.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><p class="">Simply,</p><p class="">Daniel<br class=""></p><div class="">On 21/04/2022 19:08, AFRINIC Policy Liaison wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><p class=""><font face="Arial" class=""><b style="font-weight: normal;" class=""></b></font></p><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><font face="Arial" class=""><b style="font-weight: normal;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; background-color: transparent; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Dear PDWG,</span></b></font></div><font face="Arial" class=""><b style="font-weight: normal;" class=""><br class=""><div style="line-height: 1.38; text-align: justify; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; background-color: transparent; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">[...]</span></div></b></font></blockquote></blockquote></div><br class=""><br class="">--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><p class="">Best Regards !<br class="">__<br class="">baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]|<<a href="https://cmnog.cm/dokuwiki/Structure" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://cmnog.cm/dokuwiki/Structure</a>><br class="">Subscribe to Mailing List: <<a href="https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/</a>><br class="">__<br class="">#LASAINTEBIBLE|#Romains15:33«Que LE #DIEU de #Paix soit avec vous tous! 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