[rpd] [members-discuss] Afrinic Court Updates

Tue Nov 30 09:59:35 UTC 2021

All

I am fully in agreement that a viable intra-RIR policy is needed.

However, can I suggest that before folks feel so free to opinine on matters that are clearly so far outside your area of expertise, you do some research.

IMO there is certainly no actionable monopoly and possibly no monopoly at all!

For starters read Section 46 of the Mauritian Competition Act [link here seeing as you could not be bothered to check it before expressing your opinions so forcefully and ignorantly https://competitioncommission.mu/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/04-Competition-Act-2007_Amended_050213.pdf].

So it may be possible that a “monopoly situation” does exist at AfriNIC [which I do not concede], in which case S 46(2) is operative. I cannot see any basis to argue that AfriNIC: is an enterprise engaging in conduct that -
(a) has the object or effect of preventing, restricting or distorting competition; or
(b) in any other way constitutes exploitation of the monopoly situation.

But [for Owen and his cheerleaders] feel free to lodge a complaint with the Commission [if you or your employer have not done so already] and let us see what transpires.

The reason that I do not concede that a monopoly situation even exists is that the Act defines “enterprise” as any person, firm, partnership, corporation, company, association or other juridical person, *engaged in commercial activities for gain or reward* [my emphasis]. AfriNIC is a not for profit entity which is responsible for the distribution and management of Internet number resources and seems to fall outside the definition of enterprise.

We can do an analysis of competition legislation across the AfriNIC service region and I suspect you will find that the "monopoly” of which you or others feel entitled to designate so freely: (i) either does not fall within any applicable definition, or (ii) the conduct about which you complain is not prohibited, or (iii) such conduct subject to an exemption on various grounds. That is certainly the case in those jurisdictions [and regional competition authorities] with which I am familiar. Feel free to get some reasoned legal analysis done on these jurisdictions and others and present same on this list for review.

Otherwise please …. feel free to shout *MONOPOLY* on this list all you like, and then expose your hypocrisy of calling other people “ignorant” and engaging in “obfuscation and sophistry” when it turns out there is no basis in fact or in law for your argument.

I am not here to defend Noah, as I don’t believe his argument is valid either [and he is quite capable of defending himself or presenting more invalid arguments, as he so choses] - but please get your facts and legal principles aligned before exposing your own ignorance on this list.

I am also well aware who was the first to shout *monopoly* like someone shouting “fire” in a crowded theatre when there is none and watching the ensuing chaos. 

The unfortunate reality is that they are many smart people on this list and they seem to think that they can combine their intelligence and a bit of reading and grasp concepts that are not familiar to them and then use those concepts in arguments. 

Or maybe they have spent too much time reading fantasy fiction, comic books or fantasy movies and they believe they are a mystical warrior wielding a weapon of power [here it is “Monopoly” instead of “Excalibur” that they pulled from a rock and think it will make them king… of the mailing list]. In truth, it is more keyboard warrior and limp noodle.

Mike

> On 29 Nov 2021, at 22:17, Owen DeLong via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net> wrote:
> 
> An intra-RIR transfer policy does not eliminate the monopoly status.
> 
> It requires an inter-RIR policy to do that.
> 
> Are you really so ignorant or are you merely hoping that your attempt at obfuscation and sophistry would not be revealed for what it is?
> 
> Owen
> 
> 
>> On Nov 29, 2021, at 12:04 , Noah <noah at neo.co.tz <mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>> wrote:
>> 
>> I refer you to section 5.7 of the CPM. It's a fact that AFRINIC has a transfer policy in place albeit Intra-RIR.  So where is the absence of the transfer policy the man is talking about?
>> 
>> I suppose it's you who was ignorant of that fact.
>> 
>> Noah
>> 
>> On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 10:29 PM Paul Hjul <hjul.paul at gmail.com <mailto:hjul.paul at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> You really shouldn't accuse somebody of making a "misrepresentation of facts" if your starting position is one of ignorance. 
>> 
>> I don't know whether you are genuinely ignorant or are simply dishonest. 
>> 
>> In any case waiting for the written indication of the co-chairs pushing to final call as the working group has quite definitively not agreed. 
>> 
>> 
>> On which note its probably best to ask in the mailing list when we can expect the co-chairs to put out the last call. 
>> 
>> On Mon, 29 Nov 2021, 20:39 Noah, <noah at neo.co.tz <mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>> wrote:
>> On Mon, 29 Nov 2021, 10:26 Andrew Alston via Members-Discuss, <members-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:members-discuss at afrinic.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> RIR’s are defacto monopolies in the absence of transfer policies –
>> 
>> 
>> Your statement above is misrepresentation of facts. 
>> 
>> There is an existing Intra-RIR transfer policy where resource members within the AFRINIC service region can transfer anywhere within the region number resources.
>> 
>> once they have transfer policies – they are no longer monopolies since anyone can transfer anywhere.
>> 
>> 
>> In the last PPM, after years of discussions as is common with the policy development process, the working group finally agreed on an Inter-RIR transfer policy which has since reached rough consensus and in last call.
>> 
>> So what are you talking about?
>> 
>> Noah
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