[rpd] ratified policies - something missing so they are in the agenda of the board?

[Sunday Folayan]

Jodi,

Yes.

In addition to you summary:

If it is forbidden, even if it will seemingly make things better ... 
disallow

If it is not forbidden, if you do not understand the impact, ... Ask.

If it is not forbidden, if you know it is harmful ... Speak-up

If it is not forbidden, but will make things better  .. .Don't Complain

Sunday.


On 2/10/21 10:49 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:

>

> Hi Sunday,

>

> I think then we agree 100%!

>

> Key point, trying to summarize: “for transparency and to ensure that 

> nothing beyond the PDP is enforced outside of the PDP”.

>

> El 10/2/21 10:45, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at skannet.com 

> <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com>> escribió:

>

> Jodi,

>

> See my responses inset:

>

> On 2/10/21 10:26 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:

>

>     Hi Sunday,

>

>     That’s why we need to see what the chairs have sent to the board

>     and the template.

>

> For transparency sake, and in a Cc ... Not because you will want to 

> edit or audit before it is sent.

>

>     If the chairs didn’t used the template, but all the information

>     that the PDP indicates, was already in the email sent to the

>     board, then they chairs fulfilled his duty on this regard.

>

> Correct!

>

>     As I’ve already explained, I understand that the board, or

>     AFRINIC, as an organization, want to have a uniform way to have

>     the policies sent for ratification. That’s perfectly valid!

>     However, that can’t impose the community (and the chairs are part

>     of that), new “duties”, or alter the way they work according to

>     the PDP.

>

> If the Board make a request, and the WG Chairs and Staff have no 

> problem meeting the request, and the request does not vary the PDP ... 

> I think we need not fret about that.

>

>     Otherwise, tomorrow, AFRINIC (or the board) can request something

>     else, and the next day something else, and so on, and all that can

>     be used (even if in good faith) to delay, or nullify the work of

>     the community.

>

> Let us not be pre-emptive here. Let us wait till tomorrow, and another 

> set of Co-Chairs, who will definitely chart their own course.

>

>     It is not about micromanagement, there is a very simple way to get

>     the same and not impose it to the chairs or community:

>

>     1)Chairs send the report by email (plain text should be fine).

>

>     2)Staff prepares the template.

>

>     3)If staff believes something is missing, ask the chairs know.

>

>     I will add to that, that all those emails should be copied to the

>     list, for transparency

>

> Agreed, on the need for transparency.

>

>     .

>

>     (there are possible variations to this, but the point here is not

>     to imposse anything to the chairs that is not already clearly

>     defined in the PDP)

>

> If the chairs choose to, why not? We once had a Co-chair produce a 

> neat summary of pending discussions in a clear and useful tabular 

> form. Quite appreciated. No one demanded it from subsequent Co-Chairs.

>

>     This way the community is not enforced to any steps not depicted

>     in the PDP, but the AFRINIC organization/board can self-manage as

>     much as they wish.

>

>     This is exactly what we got with the ToR of the AC, where the ToR

>     is modifying the PDP without following the PDP. At least section 5

>     of the ToR are impossing steps and rules that aren’t part of the

>     PDP and never have been incorporated by consensus in the PDP.

>

> And with the Section 5 of the ToR, no one agreed that the Board is right.

>

> So ... Let us be careful in being critical of everything.

>

> Sunday.

>

>     Regards,

>

>     Jordi

>

>     @jordipalet

>

>     El 10/2/21 10:15, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at skannet.com

>     <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com>> escribió:

>

>     Jordi,

>

>     Wait, Wait, wait:

>

>     *"I understand that the staff created a template, but it is not

>     part of the PDP, and that is a modification of the PDP, that we

>     all know, requires to be passed via a policy proposal".*

>

>     We are getting into unnecessary details. How can this be a

>     violation the PDP?

>

>     For the avoidance of doubt, the PDP states:

>

>     *“**3.4.4 Approval*

>

>     *The Working Group Chair(s) shall recommend the draft policy to

>     the AFRINIC Board of Directors for approval if it has the

>     consensus of the Policy Development Working Group. The

>     recommendation shall include a report of the discussions of the

>     draft policy and feedback from the Last Call. The draft policy

>     shall be ratified by the AFRINIC Board of Directors.”*

>

>     So, in there, you will see:

>

>     1. WG Chairs shall recommend ...

>     2. The recommendation shall include a report of discussions and

>     feedbacks from the last call.

>

>     What is the better way to do this, than having a template for

>     consistency and tracking? That is purely operational! That the

>     Staff developed and shared this with the WG Chairs, is all towards

>     efficiency and smooth operations.

>

>     I think we should focus more on goals and outcomes, instead of

>     micromanaging actions, such as insisting the WG chairs to first

>     request for approval from the PDWG that the want to email the Board.

>

>     We need not spoil the broth with too much cooking please.

>

>     Sunday.

>

>     On 2/10/21 9:25 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:

>

>         Hi Madhvi,

>

>         Tks for your quick response and explanation.

>

>         I understand that the staff created a template, but it is not

>         part of the PDP, and that is a modification of the PDP, that

>         we all know, requires to be passed via a policy proposal.

>

>         The PDP indicate:

>

>         “3.4.4 Approval

>

>         The Working Group Chair(s) shall recommend the draft policy to

>         the AFRINIC Board of Directors for approval if it has the

>         consensus of the Policy Development Working Group. The

>         recommendation shall include a report of the discussions of

>         the draft policy and feedback from the Last Call. The draft

>         policy shall be ratified by the AFRINIC Board of Directors.”

>

>         Could that template be published (or attached to your

>         response), so we all understand it?

>

>         >From Paschal email (yesterday), I understand that the chairs sent

>         their report to the board email.

>

>         The PDP doesn't state anything about timing, and it seems that

>         the board complaining about some timing issues to the

>         co-chairs. That will be a PDP violation.

>

>         Can you also forward to the community a copy of what the

>         chairs sent to the board and the board response? There should

>         be nothing secret there, but we are in a very anomalous

>         situation if the board has rejected the report and the report

>         was following the PDP.

>

>         I must repeat that the board can’t ask the co-chairs for

>         something different (neither something else) that what the PDP

>         describes, because that constitutes a policy violation.

>

>         I understand your wish to have an internal and “unitform”

>         template, but that template, in my opinion is not a duty of

>         the chairs, and instead of the staff assisting the chairs

>         preparing it, it should be the staff “adding” that template to

>         what was already sent by the chairs to the board.

>

>         We really need to know all the details and the real situation.

>

>         Thanks!

>

>         Regards,

>

>         Jordi

>

>         @jordipalet

>

>         El 10/2/21 5:28, "Madhvi Gokool" <madhvi at afrinic.net

>         <mailto:madhvi at afrinic.net>> escribió:

>

>         Hello Jordi

>

>         Your queries to staff  in email below refer.

>

>         The co-chairs were made aware  of /that :-

>

>         1.the template of the ratification report  to assist them with

>         the function.

>

>         2.each proposal that is sent for ratification needs its own

>         report.

>

>         3.they are responsible to send the ratification reports  to

>         board at afrinic.net <mailto:board at afrinic.net> .

>

>         4.The Policy Liaison assists them with the drafting, etc.

>

>         Regards

>

>         Madhvi

>

>         On 09/02/2021 12:46 PM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:

>

>             Questions for the staff:

>

>             a) There is an internal procedure for that?

>

>             b) Have the chairs got the relevant instructions?

>

>             c) Can you copy to the RPD list on a and b above?

>

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> authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of 

> this information, even if partially, including attached files, is 

> strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you 

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> distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if 

> partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be 

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