Search RPD Archives
[rpd] Reciprocity of the inter-RIR transfer policies
Fernando Frediani
fhfrediani at gmail.com
Wed Oct 14 13:19:16 UTC 2020
This shows there was a total rush to get this proposal to advance at any
cost, many things were left below or not discussed properly and now
there is a problem of non-reciprocity by other RIRs, specially ARIN
which is the biggest donor and which defeats the main propose of this
proposal.
Furthermore the authors seem to be looking to make more "editorial
changes" in the current text in order to make it reciprocal given it's
not yet.
Then I ask: How a current non-reciprocal proposal can turn into a
reciprocal one using editorial changes ? Editoral changes were never
meant for this, anywhere.
Not only this proposal was totally rushed but also it never had a
anything near what can be called a consensus as many of us have been
saying in the past weeks.
Fernando
On 13/10/2020 13:26, Marcus K. G. Adomey wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> The transfer policy reciprocity discussions are taking place on other
> RIRs lists(*)
>
> Authors of “Resource Transfer Policy” seeking reciprocity with other
> regions for version 4 of their proposal.
>
> Curious as why it ended up there, maybe they no longer trust our
> policy development process.
>
> It sounds awkward to request reciprocity check on a proposal you said
> “has just reached consensus”
>
> The consensus approach must have included these checks.
>
> https://mailman.apnic.net/mailing-lists/sig-policy/archive/2020/10/msg00001.html
> <https://mailman.apnic.net/mailing-lists/sig-policy/archive/2020/10/msg00001.html>
>
>
> https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/2020-October/068075.html
> <https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/2020-October/068075.html>
>
> (https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/2020-October/068075.html
> <https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/2020-October/068075.html>)
>
>
>
>
> Marcus
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net>
> *Sent:* Friday, October 9, 2020 7:52 PM
> *To:* rpd at afrinic.net <rpd at afrinic.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [rpd] Reciprocity of the inter-RIR transfer policies
>
> Hi Madhvi,
>
> El 9/10/20 20:06, "Madhvi Gokool" <madhvi at afrinic.net
> <mailto:madhvi at afrinic.net>> escribió:
>
> Hello Jordi
>
> On 09/10/2020 7:58 PM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
>
> Hi Madhvi,
>
> I think this makes clear that I was right, as I always indicated
> that the other 2 proposal were not reciprocal, so they become useless.
>
> Let's take a step back - reciprocity can only be confirmed by the
> respective RIRs as they know their policies and hence the commitment
> to request their inputs & share with this working group.
>
> The intent was to receive factual & authoritative information that
> this working group could use while submitting/ discussing policy
> proposals.
>
> [Jordi] I fully understand and support and actually asked authors and
> staff for an authoritative confirmation (already more than a year
> ago). However, what I said is that I have already the information,
> because I’ve done the same authoritative confirmation, when working in
> the same topic for the Inter-RIR policy in LACNIC (and LACNIC staff
> confirmed it with all the RIRs). So, my information was already coming
> from the authoritative source, and several folks denied it and
> basically said that it was “my invention” and “attack to the other
> proposals” during the last 2 meetings. I think they should recognize
> now that it was not the case. When you author proposals, you should do
> you work and at a minimum, if you carefully read the other RIR
> proposals, and follow the 5 RIRs policy manual updates, etc., you can
> have a non-authoritative vision on that (which should match the
> authoritative one – otherwise, the policy text is written in a
> controversial way, which is not good).
>
> Regarding your point on the ASN transfer in my proposal, I will
> wait for further clarification with APNIC, but the intent was
> bi-directional with any RIR (that allows it), like for IPv4.
> Anyway, if the ASN is an issue, as I tried just to follow the
> staff recommendations to resolve that according to your PIER’s,
> the easier way to resolve that is to make it in a different
> proposal, so we could resolve the IPv4 issue first, then ASN and
> even IPv6 in another one. That may help to reach consensus in each
> topic.
>
> Sure. We will keep you in the loop.
>
> [Jordi] Actually that’s a good point, if you want to keep me in copy
> with APNIC, all the relevant contacts already have my email and
> speaking directly may save many cycles. I didn’t ask them in this case
> the “authoritative” information about ASN, because I don’t think it is
> comparable to the issues and restrictions that we have with IPv4, but
> maybe I missed something. I will anyway, right now review all the
> other RIR policies on this topic, in case I can find anything.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jordi
>
> @jordipalet
>
> Regards
>
> Madhvi
>
> El 9/10/20 17:07, "Madhvi Gokool" <madhvi at afrinic.net
> <mailto:madhvi at afrinic.net>> escribió:
>
> Dear PDWG
>
> AFRINIC has received partial feedback to its query and would like
> to report on the feedback received to the community. To note that
> the proposal AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT03 was also shared with the
> RIRs when it was submitted in Sep 2020.
>
> 1.ARIN has responded that the Resource Transfer Policy is not
> compatible with their inter-RIR transfer policies because of the
> following statement therein - /“The source must be the current
> rights holder of the IPv4 address resources registered with any
> RIR and shall be in compliance with the policies of the receiving
> RIR.”/ would require a source in the ARIN region to comply with
> AFRINIC RIR policies.
>
> AFRINIC - You will find that both AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT02 &
> AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT03, versions that were shared with the RIRs
> contain this statement.
>
> 1.APNIC has responded that for
>
> 1.AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT03 - Resource Transfer Policy (Draft-3),
> the APNIC inter-RIR policy is not compatible with the current
> text, especially “The source must be the current rights holder of
> the IPv4 address resources registered with any RIR and shall be in
> compliance with the policies of the receiving RIR.”
>
> AFRINIC - You will find that AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT02 version
> that was shared with the RIRs also contain this statement.
>
> 1. AFPUB-2019-GEN-002-DRAFT02 - AFRINIC Number Resources Transfer
> Policy
>
> "Only Legacy resources and resources transferred in from other
> regions will be transferable out of the AFRINIC service region."
>
> Not compatible as it is not fully reciprocal and bi-directional in
> nature. The proposal only allows transfer of legacy resources and
> resources that been transferred into AFRINIC, and NOT resources
> from the AFRINIC pool. In principle, APNIC allows outgoing
> transfer of resources from the APNIC pool, but has a 5-year
> transfer restriction for 103/8 space.
>
> 1.AFPUB-2019-IPv4-002-DRAFT04 - IPv4 Inter-RIR Resource Transfers
> (Comprehensive Scope) Draft-4
>
> Compatible for IPv4 Inter-RIR transfers. However there is
> ambiguity about APNIC to AFRINIC ASN transfers. We understand the
> text below allows transfer of ASNs out of AFRINIC region if they
> meet certain conditions. Does it imply transfer of incoming ASNs
> into AFRINIC is allowed?
>
> "5.7.4 Transfer of ASN with IPv4 Resources
>
> At the AFRINIC discretion, in the case where over 50% of the IPv4
> resources associated with an ASN are being transferred, that ASN
> may also be transferred at the same time."
>
> AFRINIC - We shall clarify this with APNIC as from next week.
>
> To conclude , please note that as we receive further updates from
> the RIRs, we shall keep the working group informed. Should the
> authors of the 3 policy proposals require further inputs and
> clarifications regarding reciprocity/compatibility, we recommend
> that they submit same to pdwg at afrinic.net
> <mailto:pdwg at afrinic.net> . We shall then do the needful and
> liaise with the RIRs.
>
> We have also noted that a latest version of Resource Transfer
> Policy was submitted to the list . To maintain the consistency ,
> the reciprocity/compatibility with the other inter-RIR transfer
> policies will be sought.
>
> Regards
>
> Madhvi
>
> On 23/09/2020 9:51 AM, Madhvi Gokool wrote:
>
> Dear PDWG
>
> During the Policy discussions in the AFRINIC-32 PPM on 17 Sep
> 2020, there was a debate regarding the reciprocity of one
> inter-RIR transfer policy proposal with ARIN. The Policy
> Liaison had responded that since there are 3 policy proposals
> under discussion and that two of them had undergone revision
> in 2020 , AFRINIC shall contact ARIN to get their
> authoritative response in regard to the reciprocity of all the
> *3 proposals*.
>
> Since the LACNIC, RIPE and APNIC RIRs all have inter-RIR
> transfer policies, and we, AFRINIC do not have their
> assessment of the reciprocity of the 3 policy proposals under
> discussion on record, AFRINIC has therefore reached out to
> all 4 RIRs to get their inputs regarding the reciprocity of
> the*three * policy proposals that were discussed in the
> AFRINIC PPM last week.
>
> We shall update you once we have received the updates from
> the 4 RIRs. "
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Madhvi
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> RPD mailing list
>
> RPD at afrinic.net <mailto:RPD at afrinic.net>
>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd>
>
> _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list
> RPD at afrinic.net <mailto:RPD at afrinic.net>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
> <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd>
>
>
> **********************************************
> IPv4 is over
> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> http://www.theipv6company.com <http://www.theipv6company.com>
> The IPv6 Company
>
> This electronic message contains information which may be
> privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for
> the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further
> non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use
> of the contents of this information, even if partially, including
> attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a
> criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware
> that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents
> of this information, even if partially, including attached files,
> is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so
> you must reply to the original sender to inform about this
> communication and delete it.
>
> --
> Madhvi Gokool
> Senior IP Resources Specialist
> AFRINIC Ltd.
> t: +230 403 5100 | f: +230 466 6758 |
> w:www.afrinic.net <http://www.afrinic.net>
>
> **********************************************
> IPv4 is over
> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> http://www.theipv6company.com
> The IPv6 Company
>
> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged
> or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive
> use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty
> authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of
> this information, even if partially, including attached files, is
> strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you
> are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,
> distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if
> partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be
> considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original
> sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> RPD mailing list
> RPD at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/attachments/20201014/0e377283/attachment-0001.html>
More information about the RPD
mailing list