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    <p>This shows there was a total rush to get this proposal to advance
      at any cost, many things were left below or not discussed properly
      and now there is a problem of non-reciprocity by other RIRs,
      specially ARIN which is the biggest donor and which defeats the
      main propose of this proposal.<br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
      Furthermore the authors seem to be looking to make more "editorial
      changes" in the current text in order to make it reciprocal given
      it's not yet.<br>
      Then I ask: How a current non-reciprocal proposal can turn into a
      reciprocal one using editorial changes ? Editoral changes were
      never meant for this, anywhere.<br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>Not only this proposal was totally rushed but also it never had a
      anything near what can be called a consensus as many of us have
      been saying in the past weeks.</p>
    <p><br>
      Fernando<br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 13/10/2020 13:26, Marcus K. G.
      Adomey wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DB8PR01MB6294180C7B32796952A4122CB9040@DB8PR01MB6294.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com">
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        Dear All,
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>The transfer policy reciprocity discussions are taking
          place on other RIRs lists(*)</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Authors of “Resource Transfer Policy” seeking reciprocity
          with other regions for version 4 of their proposal.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Curious as why it ended up there, maybe they no longer
          trust our policy development process.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>It sounds awkward to request reciprocity check on a
          proposal you said “has just reached consensus”</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>The consensus approach must have included these checks.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><a
href="https://mailman.apnic.net/mailing-lists/sig-policy/archive/2020/10/msg00001.html"
            id="LPlnk183505" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mailman.apnic.net/mailing-lists/sig-policy/archive/2020/10/msg00001.html</a></div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><a
href="https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/2020-October/068075.html"
            id="LPlnk652593" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/2020-October/068075.html</a></div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>(<a
href="https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/2020-October/068075.html"
            id="LPlnk844866" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/2020-October/068075.html</a>)</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        Marcus<br>
      </div>
      <div>
        <div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
          font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
          <br>
        </div>
        <hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
        <div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
            face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
            JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"><rpd@afrinic.net></a><br>
            <b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 9, 2020 7:52 PM<br>
            <b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"><rpd@afrinic.net></a><br>
            <b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] Reciprocity of the inter-RIR
            transfer policies</font>
          <div> </div>
        </div>
        <div style="word-wrap:break-word" lang="ES">
          <div class="x_WordSection1">
            <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
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              <span style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US">Hi Madhvi,</span></p>
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              font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
              <span style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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              font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
              <span style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size:
                  11pt; font-family: Calibri,
                  sans-serif;margin-left:35.4pt">
                  El 9/10/20 20:06, "Madhvi Gokool" <<a
                    href="mailto:madhvi@afrinic.net"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">madhvi@afrinic.net</a>>
                  escribió:</p>
              </div>
            </div>
            <div>
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                 </p>
            </div>
            <p style="margin-left:35.4pt">Hello Jordi</p>
            <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
              font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;margin-left:35.4pt">
               </p>
            <div>
              <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size:
                11pt; font-family: Calibri,
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                On 09/10/2020 7:58 PM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:</p>
            </div>
            <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt; margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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                <span style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US">Hi Madhvi,</span></p>
              <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size:
                11pt; font-family: Calibri,
                sans-serif;margin-left:35.4pt">
                <span style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size:
                11pt; font-family: Calibri,
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                <span style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US">I think this
                  makes clear that I was right, as I always indicated
                  that the other 2 proposal were not reciprocal, so they
                  become useless.</span></p>
            </blockquote>
            <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
              font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;margin-left:35.4pt">
               </p>
            <p style="margin-left:35.4pt">Let's take a step back -
              reciprocity can only be confirmed by the respective RIRs
              as they know their policies  and hence the commitment to
              request  their inputs & share with this working
              group. 
            </p>
            <p style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US">The intent
                was to receive factual & authoritative information 
                that this working group could use while submitting/
                discussing  policy proposals. 
              </span></p>
            <p><span style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US">[Jordi] I
                fully understand and support and actually asked authors
                and staff for an authoritative confirmation (already
                more than a year ago). However, what I said is that I
                have already the information, because I’ve done the same
                authoritative confirmation, when working in the same
                topic for the Inter-RIR policy in LACNIC (and LACNIC
                staff confirmed it with all the RIRs). So, my
                information was already coming from the authoritative
                source, and several folks denied it and basically said
                that it was “my invention” and “attack to the other
                proposals” during the last 2 meetings. I think they
                should recognize now that it was not the case. When you
                author proposals, you should do you work and at a
                minimum, if you carefully read the other RIR proposals,
                and follow the 5 RIRs policy manual updates, etc., you
                can have a non-authoritative vision on that (which
                should match the authoritative one – otherwise, the
                policy text is written in a controversial way, which is
                not good).</span></p>
            <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt; margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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                <span style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                  lang="EN-US"></span></p>
              <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size:
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                <span style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US">Regarding
                  your point on the ASN transfer in my proposal, I will
                  wait for further clarification with APNIC,  but the
                  intent was bi-directional with any RIR (that allows
                  it), like for IPv4. Anyway, if the ASN is an issue, as
                  I tried just to follow the staff recommendations to
                  resolve that according to your PIER’s, the easier way
                  to resolve that is to make it in a different proposal,
                  so we could resolve the IPv4 issue first, then ASN and
                  even IPv6 in another one. That may help to reach
                  consensus in each topic.</span></p>
            </blockquote>
            <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
              font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;margin-left:35.4pt">
              Sure. We will keep you in the loop.</p>
            <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
              font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
              <span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></p>
            <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
              font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
              <span lang="EN-US">[Jordi] Actually that’s a good point,
                if you want to keep me in copy with APNIC, all the
                relevant contacts already have my email and speaking
                directly may save many cycles. I didn’t ask them in this
                case the “authoritative” information about ASN, because
                I don’t think it is comparable to the issues and
                restrictions that we have with IPv4, but maybe I missed
                something. I will anyway, right now review all the other
                RIR policies on this topic, in case I can find anything.</span></p>
            <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
              font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
              <span style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
            <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt; margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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                  <span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
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                  <span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black"
                    lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
                <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size:
                  11pt; font-family: Calibri,
                  sans-serif;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:12.0pt;
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                  <span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black"
                    lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
                <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size:
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                  sans-serif;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:12.0pt;
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                  <span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black"
                    lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
            <p style="margin-left:35.4pt">Regards</p>
            <p style="margin-left:35.4pt">Madhvi</p>
            <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt; margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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                    lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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                <span style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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                <span style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size:
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                    sans-serif;margin-left:70.8pt">
                    El 9/10/20 17:07, "Madhvi Gokool" <<a
                      href="mailto:madhvi@afrinic.net"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">madhvi@afrinic.net</a>>
                    escribió:</p>
                </div>
              </div>
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                <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size:
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                   </p>
              </div>
              <p style="margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:12.0pt;
                margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                  style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
                  color:black">Dear PDWG</span></p>
              <p style="margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:12.0pt;
                margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                  style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
                  color:black">AFRINIC has received partial feedback to
                  its query and would like to report on the feedback
                  received to the community.  To note that the proposal
                    AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT03 was also shared with the
                  RIRs when it was submitted in Sep 2020.</span></p>
              <p style="margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0cm;
                margin-left:106.8pt; text-indent:-18.0pt; mso-list:l3
                level1 lfo2; vertical-align:baseline">
                <span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt
                    "Times New Roman"">      </span>
                </span><span
                  style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
                  color:black">ARIN has responded that the Resource
                  Transfer Policy is not compatible with their inter-RIR
                  transfer policies because of the following statement
                  therein -
                  <i>“The source must be the current rights holder of
                    the IPv4 address resources registered with any RIR
                    and shall be in compliance with the policies of the
                    receiving RIR.”</i> would require a source in the
                  ARIN region to comply with AFRINIC RIR policies.</span></p>
              <p style="margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0cm;
                margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                  style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
                  color:black">AFRINIC - You will find  that both
                  AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT02 &
                  AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT03, versions that were shared
                  with the RIRs contain this statement.</span></p>
              <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size:
                11pt; font-family: Calibri,
                sans-serif;margin-left:70.8pt">
                 </p>
              <p style="margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0cm;
                margin-left:106.8pt; text-indent:-18.0pt; mso-list:l1
                level1 lfo4; vertical-align:baseline">
                <span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt
                    "Times New Roman"">      </span>
                </span><span
                  style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
                  color:black">APNIC has responded that for </span></p>
              <p style="margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0cm;
                margin-left:142.8pt; text-indent:-18.0pt; mso-list:l2
                level1 lfo6; vertical-align:baseline">
                <span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt
                    "Times New Roman"">      </span>
                </span><span
                  style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
                  color:black">AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT03 - Resource
                  Transfer Policy (Draft-3), the APNIC inter-RIR policy
                  is not compatible with the current text, especially
                  “The source must be the current rights holder of the
                  IPv4 address resources registered with any RIR and
                  shall be in compliance with the policies of the
                  receiving RIR.”</span></p>
              <p style="margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0cm;
                margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                  style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
                  color:black">AFRINIC - You will find  that
                  AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT02 version that was shared with
                  the RIRs also contain this statement.</span></p>
              <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size:
                11pt; font-family: Calibri,
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                 </p>
              <p style="margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0cm;
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                level1 lfo8; vertical-align:baseline">
                <span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt
                    "Times New Roman"">      </span>
                </span><span
                  style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
                  color:black"> AFPUB-2019-GEN-002-DRAFT02 - AFRINIC
                  Number Resources Transfer Policy</span></p>
              <p style="margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0cm;
                margin-left:142.8pt"><span
                  style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
                  color:black"> "Only Legacy resources and resources
                  transferred in from other regions will be transferable
                  out of the AFRINIC service region."</span></p>
              <p style="margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0cm;
                margin-left:142.8pt"><span
                  style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
                  color:black">Not compatible as it is not fully
                  reciprocal and bi-directional in nature. The proposal
                  only allows transfer of legacy resources and resources
                  that been transferred into AFRINIC, and NOT resources
                  from the AFRINIC pool. In principle, APNIC allows
                  outgoing transfer of resources from the APNIC pool,
                  but has a 5-year transfer restriction for 103/8 space.</span></p>
              <p style="margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0cm;
                margin-left:142.8pt; text-indent:-18.0pt; mso-list:l0
                level1 lfo10; vertical-align:baseline">
                <span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt
                    "Times New Roman"">      </span>
                </span><span
                  style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
                  color:black">AFPUB-2019-IPv4-002-DRAFT04 - IPv4
                  Inter-RIR Resource Transfers (Comprehensive Scope)
                  Draft-4</span></p>
              <p style="margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0cm;
                margin-left:142.8pt"><span
                  style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
                  color:black">Compatible for IPv4 Inter-RIR transfers.
                  However there is ambiguity about APNIC to AFRINIC ASN
                  transfers. We understand the text below allows
                  transfer of ASNs out of AFRINIC region if they meet
                  certain conditions. Does it imply transfer of incoming
                  ASNs into AFRINIC is allowed?</span></p>
              <p style="margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0cm;
                margin-left:142.8pt"><span
                  style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
                  color:black">"5.7.4 Transfer of ASN with IPv4
                  Resources</span></p>
              <p style="margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:12.0pt;
                margin-left:106.8pt"><span
                  style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
                  color:black"> </span></p>
              <p style="margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:12.0pt;
                margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                  style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
                  color:black">At the AFRINIC discretion, in the case
                  where over 50% of the IPv4 resources associated with
                  an ASN are being transferred, that ASN may also be
                  transferred at the same time."</span></p>
              <p style="margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:12.0pt;
                margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                  style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
                  color:black">AFRINIC - We shall clarify this with
                  APNIC as from next week.
                </span></p>
              <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size:
                11pt; font-family: Calibri,
                sans-serif;margin-left:70.8pt">
                 </p>
              <p style="margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:12.0pt;
                margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                  style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
                  color:black"> </span></p>
              <p style="margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:12.0pt;
                margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                  style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
                  color:black">To conclude , please note that as we
                  receive further updates from the RIRs, we shall keep
                  the working group informed.  Should the authors of the
                  3 policy proposals require further inputs and
                  clarifications  regarding reciprocity/compatibility,
                  we recommend  that they submit same to
                  <a href="mailto:pdwg@afrinic.net"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">pdwg@afrinic.net</a> . We
                  shall then do the needful and liaise with the RIRs.</span>
              </p>
              <p style="margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:12.0pt;
                margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                  style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
                  color:black">We have also noted that a latest version
                  of Resource Transfer Policy was submitted to the list
                  . To maintain the consistency , the
                  reciprocity/compatibility with the other inter-RIR
                  transfer policies will be sought.</span></p>
              <p style="margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:12.0pt;
                margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                  style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
                  color:black"> </span></p>
              <p style="margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:12.0pt;
                margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                  style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
                  color:black">Regards</span></p>
              <p style="margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:12.0pt;
                margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                  style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
                  color:black">Madhvi</span></p>
              <p style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
              <p style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
              <p style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
              <div>
                <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size:
                  11pt; font-family: Calibri,
                  sans-serif;margin-left:70.8pt">
                  On 23/09/2020 9:51 AM, Madhvi Gokool wrote:</p>
              </div>
              <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt; margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size:
                  11pt; font-family: Calibri,
                  sans-serif;margin-left:70.8pt">
                   Dear PDWG</p>
                <p style="margin-left:70.8pt">During the Policy
                  discussions in the AFRINIC-32 PPM  on 17 Sep 2020,
                  there was a debate regarding the reciprocity of one
                  inter-RIR transfer policy proposal with ARIN. The
                  Policy Liaison had responded that since there are 3
                  policy proposals under discussion and that two of them
                  had undergone revision in 2020 , AFRINIC shall contact
                  ARIN to get their authoritative response in regard to
                  the reciprocity of all the
                  <b>3 proposals</b>.</p>
                <p style="margin-left:70.8pt">Since the  LACNIC, RIPE
                  and APNIC RIRs all have inter-RIR transfer policies,
                  and we, AFRINIC do not have their assessment of the
                  reciprocity of the 3 policy proposals under discussion
                  on record,  AFRINIC has therefore reached out to all 
                  4 RIRs to  get their inputs regarding the reciprocity
                  of the<b> three </b>
                  policy proposals that were discussed in the AFRINIC
                  PPM last week.</p>
                <p style="margin-left:70.8pt">We shall update you once
                  we have received the updates from the  4 RIRs. "</p>
                <p style="margin-left:70.8pt">Kind Regards</p>
                <p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size:
                  11pt; font-family: Calibri,
                  sans-serif;margin-left:70.8pt">
                  Madhvi <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                </p>
                <pre style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";margin-left:70.8pt">_______________________________________________</pre>
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                11pt; font-family: Calibri,
                sans-serif;margin-left:70.8pt">
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            <pre style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";margin-left:35.4pt">-- </pre>
            <pre style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";margin-left:35.4pt">Madhvi Gokool</pre>
            <pre style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";margin-left:35.4pt">Senior IP Resources Specialist</pre>
            <pre style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";margin-left:35.4pt">AFRINIC Ltd.</pre>
            <pre style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";margin-left:35.4pt">t:  +230 403 5100 | f: +230 466 6758 | </pre>
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          intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,
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