[rpd] Reciprocity of the inter-RIR transfer policies

[Marcus K. G. Adomey]

Dear All,

The transfer policy reciprocity discussions are taking place on other RIRs lists(*)

Authors of “Resource Transfer Policy” seeking reciprocity with other regions for version 4 of their proposal.

Curious as why it ended up there, maybe they no longer trust our policy development process.

It sounds awkward to request reciprocity check on a proposal you said “has just reached consensus”

The consensus approach must have included these checks.

https://mailman.apnic.net/mailing-lists/sig-policy/archive/2020/10/msg00001.html


https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/2020-October/068075.html

(https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/2020-October/068075.html)




Marcus

________________________________
From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net>
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:52 PM
To: rpd at afrinic.net <rpd at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [rpd] Reciprocity of the inter-RIR transfer policies


Hi Madhvi,





El 9/10/20 20:06, "Madhvi Gokool" <madhvi at afrinic.net<mailto:madhvi at afrinic.net>> escribió:



Hello Jordi



On 09/10/2020 7:58 PM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:

Hi Madhvi,



I think this makes clear that I was right, as I always indicated that the other 2 proposal were not reciprocal, so they become useless.



Let's take a step back - reciprocity can only be confirmed by the respective RIRs as they know their policies  and hence the commitment to request  their inputs & share with this working group.

The intent was to receive factual & authoritative information  that this working group could use while submitting/ discussing  policy proposals.

[Jordi] I fully understand and support and actually asked authors and staff for an authoritative confirmation (already more than a year ago). However, what I said is that I have already the information, because I’ve done the same authoritative confirmation, when working in the same topic for the Inter-RIR policy in LACNIC (and LACNIC staff confirmed it with all the RIRs). So, my information was already coming from the authoritative source, and several folks denied it and basically said that it was “my invention” and “attack to the other proposals” during the last 2 meetings. I think they should recognize now that it was not the case. When you author proposals, you should do you work and at a minimum, if you carefully read the other RIR proposals, and follow the 5 RIRs policy manual updates, etc., you can have a non-authoritative vision on that (which should match the authoritative one – otherwise, the policy text is written in a controversial way, which is not good).



Regarding your point on the ASN transfer in my proposal, I will wait for further clarification with APNIC,  but the intent was bi-directional with any RIR (that allows it), like for IPv4. Anyway, if the ASN is an issue, as I tried just to follow the staff recommendations to resolve that according to your PIER’s, the easier way to resolve that is to make it in a different proposal, so we could resolve the IPv4 issue first, then ASN and even IPv6 in another one. That may help to reach consensus in each topic.

Sure. We will keep you in the loop.



[Jordi] Actually that’s a good point, if you want to keep me in copy with APNIC, all the relevant contacts already have my email and speaking directly may save many cycles. I didn’t ask them in this case the “authoritative” information about ASN, because I don’t think it is comparable to the issues and restrictions that we have with IPv4, but maybe I missed something. I will anyway, right now review all the other RIR policies on this topic, in case I can find anything.





Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

Regards

Madhvi







El 9/10/20 17:07, "Madhvi Gokool" <madhvi at afrinic.net<mailto:madhvi at afrinic.net>> escribió:



Dear PDWG

AFRINIC has received partial feedback to its query and would like to report on the feedback received to the community.  To note that the proposal   AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT03 was also shared with the RIRs when it was submitted in Sep 2020.

1.      ARIN has responded that the Resource Transfer Policy is not compatible with their inter-RIR transfer policies because of the following statement therein - “The source must be the current rights holder of the IPv4 address resources registered with any RIR and shall be in compliance with the policies of the receiving RIR.” would require a source in the ARIN region to comply with AFRINIC RIR policies.

AFRINIC - You will find  that both AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT02 & AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT03, versions that were shared with the RIRs contain this statement.



1.      APNIC has responded that for

1.      AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT03 - Resource Transfer Policy (Draft-3), the APNIC inter-RIR policy is not compatible with the current text, especially “The source must be the current rights holder of the IPv4 address resources registered with any RIR and shall be in compliance with the policies of the receiving RIR.”

AFRINIC - You will find  that AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT02 version that was shared with the RIRs also contain this statement.



1.       AFPUB-2019-GEN-002-DRAFT02 - AFRINIC Number Resources Transfer Policy

 "Only Legacy resources and resources transferred in from other regions will be transferable out of the AFRINIC service region."

Not compatible as it is not fully reciprocal and bi-directional in nature. The proposal only allows transfer of legacy resources and resources that been transferred into AFRINIC, and NOT resources from the AFRINIC pool. In principle, APNIC allows outgoing transfer of resources from the APNIC pool, but has a 5-year transfer restriction for 103/8 space.

1.      AFPUB-2019-IPv4-002-DRAFT04 - IPv4 Inter-RIR Resource Transfers (Comprehensive Scope) Draft-4

Compatible for IPv4 Inter-RIR transfers. However there is ambiguity about APNIC to AFRINIC ASN transfers. We understand the text below allows transfer of ASNs out of AFRINIC region if they meet certain conditions. Does it imply transfer of incoming ASNs into AFRINIC is allowed?

"5.7.4 Transfer of ASN with IPv4 Resources



At the AFRINIC discretion, in the case where over 50% of the IPv4 resources associated with an ASN are being transferred, that ASN may also be transferred at the same time."

AFRINIC - We shall clarify this with APNIC as from next week.





To conclude , please note that as we receive further updates from the RIRs, we shall keep the working group informed.  Should the authors of the 3 policy proposals require further inputs and clarifications  regarding reciprocity/compatibility, we recommend  that they submit same to pdwg at afrinic.net<mailto:pdwg at afrinic.net> . We shall then do the needful and liaise with the RIRs.

We have also noted that a latest version of Resource Transfer Policy was submitted to the list . To maintain the consistency , the reciprocity/compatibility with the other inter-RIR transfer policies will be sought.



Regards

Madhvi







On 23/09/2020 9:51 AM, Madhvi Gokool wrote:

 Dear PDWG

During the Policy discussions in the AFRINIC-32 PPM  on 17 Sep 2020, there was a debate regarding the reciprocity of one inter-RIR transfer policy proposal with ARIN. The Policy Liaison had responded that since there are 3 policy proposals under discussion and that two of them had undergone revision in 2020 , AFRINIC shall contact ARIN to get their authoritative response in regard to the reciprocity of all the 3 proposals.

Since the  LACNIC, RIPE and APNIC RIRs all have inter-RIR transfer policies, and we, AFRINIC do not have their assessment of the reciprocity of the 3 policy proposals under discussion on record,  AFRINIC has therefore reached out to all  4 RIRs to  get their inputs regarding the reciprocity of the three policy proposals that were discussed in the AFRINIC PPM last week.

We shall update you once we have received the updates from the  4 RIRs. "

Kind Regards

Madhvi



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