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<p>I agree with this policy (and as such, with Jordi). Automation is
almost always a good thing. I also try and automate as much as
possible so I get just get notified by exceptions - so I do less
work - and have a better system. Being a good citizen of AFRINIC,
I'd much prefer finding out something I am not complying with via
an automated system rather than having AFRINIC staff wasting their
time in talking to me about my problem. When such a problem is
reported to me, I expect it will also point to appropriate
solutions. I can then get on and quietly fix the problem.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2020/09/17 09:56, JORDI PALET
MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Hi Marius,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">The policy doesn’t change how AFRINIC operate
the services, just improve them, and what is more important,
tell AFRINIC, “you should automate it as much as possible”
and it is in the benefit of the community (which is what is
the PDP is for) because it provides automated reports and
notifications.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">To prove that your point is not necessarily
correct, some folks had the opinion, when I presented the
M&A proposal in the previous meeting, that it was an
“operational” issue. Now you agree with me that it is a
policy thing. It all depends on which lenses you look at it,
but the point is that the board has the last word. If the
board believes it an operational issue, then they will bring
back the proposal to the discussion or even suggest that we
withdraw it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Objecting with a personal opinion (“it is
operational”) is not a valid objection. Otherwise, anyone
can object to *<b>any</b>* policy proposal.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Same
with the cost, can you demonstarte what is the cost of
doing manually this vs automating it? Just to prove your
point. And again note that if the cost were an issue
AFRINIC will tell us in the impact analysis “this is going
to double our buget, we will need 1.000 more members, or
increase the fees to pay for it”, which they didn’t told.
They just talked about more resources to develop it
(once), which needs to be compensated with the savings
once implemented (forever!).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">And as I
already explained, the implementation can be done step by
step, not all the CPM in a single shoot, so the resources
can be split across several months or even years.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Last but
not least AFRINIC board has to ratify the policy. That’s
why cost is not part of the PDP discussion, because the
cost is membership, not community and the board can bring
back the policy to discussion if the cost is not
acceptable for the membership.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">El 17/9/20
9:34, "Marius Andioc via RPD" <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
escribió:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Hi Frank,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Sorry I
should have maybe translated it in both languages! Here is
my point (Answering to previous messages) :<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">I oppose
this policy for two reasons. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Regarding
the nature of this proposal, it's just an operation
measure, a decision about how Afrinic operate and provides
service. I believe this is not part of our prerogatives
and we should focus on actual policies, not deal with
Afrinic's services/products. Deciding whether we should
transfer or not, how we should proceed with M&A or the
election process are policies, this dashboard is a
service, not part of internet governance. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Concerning
the cost issue, I think contrary to what some have raised,
it is very much part of the issue. Rather than saying that
it's too costly or that it's absolute cost is too high,
it's about a cost/benefits point of view that this policy
is not worth it. Benefits are minor or at least not proven
to be more than something close to 0 as Afrinic is already
doing the job. If the policy was free of our constraint
and we just had to tick a box on an app almost no one
would oppose it (even if results are 0 it wouldn't cost
any time, money, energy), but it's not the case. And
opting for a policy that has a cost is also potentially
depriving us of another one over time, it's just about
avoiding waste in a policy that doesn't have much
benefits. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">I hope this
clarify things? <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Thank you
for your question, I'll try to send my messages in both
languages as possible! <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Have an
excellent day, <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Marius <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Le 17
sept. 2020 14:25, Frank Habicht
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:geier@geier.ne.tz"><geier@geier.ne.tz></a> a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">If I understand right
(Google translate...), then you say that<br>
- it is not for this PDWG, but AfriNIC staff
internally to decide<br>
- given funds, time and practical possibility, you
support this to be<br>
done<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">right?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">Thanks,<br>
Frank<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">On 17/09/2020 04:35,
Marius Andioc via RPD wrote:<br>
> Bonjour, <br>
> <br>
> Concernant le coût, je pense qu'au contraire
celui-ci doit rentrer en<br>
> ligne de compte. Le principe d'un choix, d'un
trade off, est que nous<br>
> aurons à choisir une politique plutôt qu'une
autre (si ce n'est pas<br>
> immédiat c'est un choix entre cette politique
aujourd'hui et une autre<br>
> demain). <br>
> Les moyens d'AFRINIC ne sont pas illimités,
nous avons tout intérêt à<br>
> choisir avec prudence ce qui est réalisé. Ici
plus que le coût de<br>
> manière absolue, c'est le rapport coût/0 ou
très peu de bénéfice qui<br>
> m'évoque un simple gaspillage (de temps, de
moyens et d'énergie, pas<br>
> uniquement une question de coût chiffré). <br>
> Pour résumer : le coût en lui même n'est pas
tant un problème, mais le<br>
> rapport coût / bénéfice en est un. Si cette
politique ne nécessitait<br>
> qu'une case à cocher dans une application pour
se réaliser il n'y aurait<br>
> pas ou peu d'opposition. <br>
> Je souhaite enfin rajouter que les modalités
opérationnelles et les<br>
> services d'AFRINIC ne sont pas de notre
ressort. Nous devons nous<br>
> concentrer sur son rôle: celui de registre.
Cette proposition n'est pas<br>
> une politique mais une proposition
opérationnelle et elle n'a donc pas<br>
> grand chose à faire ici. <br>
> <br>
> Je vous souhaite une excellente journée, <br>
> <br>
> Marius Andioc <br>
> <br>
> Le 16 sept. 2020 22:58, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
via RPD <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"><rpd@afrinic.net></a> a<br>
> écrit :<br>
> <br>
> The RSA is an overall umbrella set by the
members, and is not complete.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> The PDP is a higher-level set by the
community, as complete as we wish.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> I think many participants still get
confused with that. The PDP<br>
> state what rules the community want to be
followed, verified, etc.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> The PDP affects **all**, while the RSA only
affects members.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> The community is on **top** of the
membership. So, the community is<br>
> free to agree on rules **over the RSA**,
especially when the RSA is<br>
> not sufficiently clear.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> And one more point that I was not able to
respond in the chat. The<br>
> PDP, and thus the policy proposals, can’t
consider **cost** (I<br>
> disagree that this will be a too high
cost), because the cost is a<br>
> matter of the membership. This is why the
**board** must ratify a<br>
> policy once it reaches consensus, because
if the board believes that<br>
> the cost is too high (vs the benefits),
they can bring the proposal<br>
> back to discussion to the community. So
“cost” (especially if not<br>
> demonstrated), can’t be accepted as a valid
objection towards<br>
> consensus. Otherwise, **any** member can
block **any** proposal from<br>
> the community **because of cost** (even if
untrue)!<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Regards,<br>
> <br>
> Jordi<br>
> <br>
> @jordipalet<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> El 16/9/20 15:44, "Eucharia Maryann"
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:eucharianene@gmail.com">eucharianene@gmail.com</a><br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:eucharianene@gmail.com"><mailto:eucharianene@gmail.com></a>>
escribió:<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> AFRINIC services are provided to members
under the umbrella of the<br>
> RSA mandate, which in turn ask for
compliance with policies. <br>
> <br>
> Those policies are documented in the CPM,
which is continuously<br>
> updated by the PDP.<br>
> <br>
> If the above actually already exist in the
RSA and in the CPM, then<br>
> what's the essence of this policy or is it
that we love repeating<br>
> same thing all the time or we are just
interested in having so many<br>
> duplicated policies and rules.<br>
> <br>
> Please I cannot see the relevance of this
policy. Thanks<br>
> <br>
> Simply Eucharia.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On Sep 16, 2020 13:00,
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rpd-request@afrinic.net">rpd-request@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rpd-request@afrinic.net"><mailto:rpd-request@afrinic.net></a>>
wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Send RPD mailing list submissions to<br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"><mailto:rpd@afrinic.net></a><br>
> <br>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the
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> or, via email, send a message with
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> <br>
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> Today's Topics:<br>
> <br>
> 1. Re: Policy Compliance Dashboard -
AFPUB-2020-GEN-001-DRAFT01<br>
> (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:1mgirlieadezpet@gmail.com">1mgirlieadezpet@gmail.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:1mgirlieadezpet@gmail.com"><mailto:1mgirlieadezpet@gmail.com></a>)<br>
> <br>
> <br>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> <br>
> Message: 1<br>
> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 11:23:15 +0000
(UTC)<br>
> From: "<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:1mgirlieadezpet@gmail.com">1mgirlieadezpet@gmail.com</a><br>
>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:1mgirlieadezpet@gmail.com"><mailto:1mgirlieadezpet@gmail.com></a>"
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:1mgirlieadezpet@gmail.com">1mgirlieadezpet@gmail.com</a><br>
>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:1mgirlieadezpet@gmail.com"><mailto:1mgirlieadezpet@gmail.com></a>><br>
> To: "<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gabyginernetwork@gmail.com">gabyginernetwork@gmail.com</a><br>
>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gabyginernetwork@gmail.com"><mailto:gabyginernetwork@gmail.com></a>"
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gabyginernetwork@gmail.com">gabyginernetwork@gmail.com</a><br>
>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gabyginernetwork@gmail.com"><mailto:gabyginernetwork@gmail.com></a>>,
JORDI<br>
> PALET MARTINEZ
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a><br>
>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es"><mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es></a>><br>
> Cc: "<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"><mailto:rpd@afrinic.net></a>" <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"><mailto:rpd@afrinic.net></a>><br>
> Subject: Re: [rpd] Policy Compliance
Dashboard -<br>
> AFPUB-2020-GEN-001-DRAFT01<br>
> Message-ID:
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:1385733950.2920672.1600255395989@mail.yahoo.com">1385733950.2920672.1600255395989@mail.yahoo.com</a><br>
>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:1385733950.2920672.1600255395989@mail.yahoo.com"><mailto:1385733950.2920672.1600255395989@mail.yahoo.com></a>><br>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="utf-8"<br>
> <br>
> Dear all,This "POLICY COMPLIANCE
DASHBOARD" seems to me a case<br>
> of misplaced priorities. It will surely
lead to complexities and<br>
> unnecessary dissipation of energy and
limited resources because<br>
> AFRINIC? should already be keeping
track of the policy<br>
> violation.?In essence, I DO NOT see the
purpose of such policy<br>
> here. Therefore, I DO NOT SUPPORT it.
Thank you.<br>
> Adepetun OluwaseunSystem Analyst &
ProgrammerEPETUKU<br>
> TECHNOLOGIESAbuja, Nigeria<br>
> <br>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android<br>
> <br>
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 5:24 PM, Gaby<br>
> Giner<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gabyginernetwork@gmail.com">gabyginernetwork@gmail.com</a><br>
>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gabyginernetwork@gmail.com"><mailto:gabyginernetwork@gmail.com></a>>
wrote: <br>
>
_______________________________________________<br>
> RPD mailing list<br>
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