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[rpd] APPEAL COMMITTEE FINAL REPORT - Re: appeal about last call decision on AFPUB-2019-GEN-006-DRAFT01 "RPKI ROAs for Unal
Dr P Nyirenda
paulos at sdnp.org.mw
Tue Apr 21 16:53:54 UTC 2020
Co-Chair PDWG,
I, personally, am glad to see that this has now reached the PDWG as led by the co-chairs
since it is the PDWG led by the co-chairs that needs to pick this up from the Appeal
Committee as resolved since there appears now to be no valid appeal on this policy
proposal.
Regards,
Paulos
======================
Dr Paulos B Nyirenda
NIC.MW & .mw ccTLD
http://www.registrar.mw
Tel: +265-(0)-882 089 166
Cell: +265-(0)-888-824787
WhatsApp: +265-(0)-887386433
On 21 Apr 2020 at 13:34, ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE wrote:
> Dear Jordi,
> Thank for your email and Co-chairs are responding now cos you mentioned us specifically in your
> email.
> Unfortunately, as co-chairs, we do not have any power over the appeal committe and their decisions.
> The only thing is, their decision is binding as that is the decision hence there was nothing for us to
> comment on.
>
> Thanks
>
> Co-Chair PDWG
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 10:27 PM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net> wrote:
> Hi Noah, all,
>
> Thanks a lot for your detailed review on this matter.
>
> Actually, for me is clear since day 1 that the Appeal Committee can
> *NEVER* restrict the rights set by the CPM.
>
> This will be the same as if the Constitution of a country declares (as they
> usually do) that no person can be discriminated by age, religion, sex,
> political or other reasons, and then a committee of the parliament of that
> country, decides that they want to discriminate women or people over the
> age of 65 to go voting unless they are accompanied by men or people
> below that age.
>
> This is clearly unacceptable. In this case, co-authors, which are clearly also
> community members are getting *DISCRIMINATED*.
>
> There is no way, that the Appeal Committee can change the CPM, because
> the CPM can only be changed by the community decision (via consensus
> with a policy proposal).
>
> It is strange that since my email on 13/3, there is no response on this.
>
> I´ve not heard anything neither from the co-chairs or the board. And I think
> this is a clearly sign of bad behavior, lack of transparency, and
> consequently illegitimate decision.
>
> If we accept this then we will need to accept *ANY* ignorance and lack of
> compliance with the CPM by anyone in the community.
>
> Our CPM is our major law, our Constitution, and there is no way right can be
> restricted.
>
> I hope the board can clarify if they are accepting this, and consequently
> allow all the community to interpret the CPM as they wish.
>
> Regards,
> Jordi
> @jordipalet
>
>
>
> El 20/4/20 16:50, "Noah" <noah at neo.co.tz> escribió:
>
> Hi Paulos,
> Thanks for your quick response. Just to clarify that I responded to you since you sent the
> original email but basically my email was addressed to the entire AC which is why I started
> off with "Hi Paulos and Team" though I appreciate your personal response.
> In any case, I would like to request that the AC which I have since copied in this particular
> email respond in their capacity.
> ./noah
> neo - network engineering and operations
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 5:28 PM Dr P Nyirenda <paulos at sdnp.org.mw> wrote:
>
> Noah,
>
> Thank you for the message personally addressed to me on AFRINIC PDP appeals. I
> would like to personally indicate and observe the following since this has been addressed
> to me personally:
>
> 1. that issues on AFRINIC PDP Appeals should be addressed <pdwg-appeal at afrinic.net>
> and not to me personally.
>
> 2. That, as I understand it, each appeal is handled by the Appeal Committee individually.
>
> 3. That if you, as you have indicated below, agree that this first 2020 Appeal did not satisfy
> the conditions as in Section 5 of the ToR of the Appeal Committee, then that should surely
> close the case on this Appeal.
>
> 4. That the resolution of the Appeal Committee is final.
>
> These are my personal indications and observations and I do not speak here for the
> Appeals Committee.
>
> Regards,
>
> Paulos
> ======================
> Dr Paulos B Nyirenda
> NIC.MW & .mw ccTLD
> http://www.registrar.mw
> Tel: +265-(0)-882 089 166
> Cell: +265-(0)-888-824787
> WhatsApp: +265-(0)-887386433
>
>
> On 20 Apr 2020 at 16:18, Noah wrote:
>
> > Hi Paulos and Team,
> >
> > I hope that you are all keeping safe insight of the on-going challenging times.
> >
> > I did observe the saga on the last appeal against co-chairs decision of no consensus on
> the AS0
> > ROA proposal and I went back to do some readings including the PDP section on
> appeals, the
> > appeal committee ToR, previous appeal, appeal committee decision on the previous
> appeal, the
> > last appeal and the appeal committee decision. All this can be seen at the link
> > https://afrinic.net/policy/appeal-committee#appeals
> >
> > I also noted the requirements set in the ToR that an appeal must be supported by three
> people and
> > the support must be sent via Email in a certain format.
> >
> > I checked the composition of the appeal filed in 2018. It says the following: [ The
> complainants, Mr.
> > Owen Delong, Mr. Sander Stefan, Mr. Mark Elkins, Mr. Andrew Alston and Mr. Saul
> Stein, all
> > clearly indicated on the mailing lists in good faith, a belief that the declaration of
> consensus was in
> > error - this fulfills section 5.1.b of the appeal process. ]
> >
> > There are no mails from the folks mentioned above that were attached to the appeal.
> The appeal
> > was accepted and the appeal committee deliberated on it. The decision says as below:
> >
> > [ III. Receipt of the "Appeal against the declared consensus of
> AFPUB-2016-V4-001-DRAFT07"
> > Softlanding-bis policy proposal The Committee received an "Appeal against the declared
> > consensus of AFPUB- 2016-V4-001-DRAFT07" Softlanding-bis policy proposal which is
> published
> > as required by the ToR at the following URL:
> > https://www.afrinic.net/en/community/working-groups/policy-appeal/appeals The
> Committee
> > reviewed and confirmed that the Appeal filed is in accordance to Section 5 of the ToR of
> the
> > Appeal Committee. ]
> >
> >
> > Now, the last appeal filed started with " We are appealing against the declaration" and
> stated that;
> >
> > [The authors are also convinced, according to the discussion in the list, that other
> community
> > members are supporting this appeal, even if this is not needed according to CPM 3.5.1 ]
> >
> > The appeal was rejected with the motive below ;
> >
> > [ V. Final assessment of the Appeal Committee on the Appeal According to the PDWG
> Appeal
> > Committee Terms of Reference (https://afrinic.net/policy/appeal-committee#tor) section
> 5.2(d), the
> > appeal has not met the requirements for filing. "The complaint must be supported by
> three (3)
> > persons who have participated in the discussions relating to the matter under appeal. 8
> (That is,
> > three (3) persons other than the complainant.) 9 Said support must be expressed by an
> email
> > message from each of the supporters to the Appeal committee. Each of these email
> messages
> > must include a statement that the individual participated in discussions attempting to
> resolve the
> > dispute and that those discussions failed to resolve the dispute." VI. Conclusion The
> Committee
> > resolves that the filed appeal is not valid. ]
> >
> >
> > Now I do have a few questions that came into mind:
> >
> > 1. Why such differences in the treatment of appeals?
> >
> > 2. If the AC erred for their 2018's decision and didn't this set precedence ? It is noted that
> three
> > members who served in the 2018 AC are serving in 2020 AC as well.
> >
> > 3. On which ground is the AC really acting? Refusing to follow the conflict resolution section
> of the
> > PDP as required in Section 4 (working methods) of the ToR and instead enforcing
> requirements in
> > section 5 (filling an appeal) of the same ToR?
> >
> > [ 4.6. The committee shall ensure that any appeal received is in line with the
> requirements of the
> > Conflict Resolution section of the AFRINIC Policy Development 3 Process. ]
> >
> > Seems to me that the entire appeal process looks ambiguous and must be clarified as a
> matter of
> > urgency.
> > ./noah
> > neo - network engineering and operations
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 7:36 PM Dr P Nyirenda <paulos at sdnp.org.mw> wrote:
> > PDWG,
> >
> > I would like to advise that the AFRINIC PDWG Appeal Committee has finalised processing
> > of this submission by Jordi Palet Martinez on 12 Feb 2020 concerning co-chair last call
> > decision on AFPUB-2019-GEN-006-DRAFT01 as copied here below.
> >
> > The Appeal Committee has produced its final report including minutes of its discussions and
> > these are all available at: https://afrinic.net/policy/appeal-committee#appeals
> >
> > This closes all issues on this submission made for appeal.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Paulos
> > ======================================
> > Dr Paulos B Nyirenda
> > Malawi SDNP PC: http://www.sdnp.org.mw
> > NIC.MW & .mw ccTLD http://www.registrar.mw
> > Chair: MISPA http://www.mispa.org.mw
> > Chair: AFRINIC Appeal Committee
> >
> > On 12 Feb 2020 at 21:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:
> >
> > From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net>
> > To: <pdwg-appeal at afrinic.net>, rpd List <rpd at afrinic.net>
> > Subject: [rpd] appeal about last call decision on
> > AFPUB-2019-GEN-006-DRAFT01 "RPKI ROAs for
> > Unallocated and Unassigned AFRINIC Address Space"
> > Date sent: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 21:04:25 +0100
> > Send reply to: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es >
> >
> > > Dear Appeal Committee,
> > >
> > > We are appealing against the declaration of no-consensus made by the
> > > PDWG co-chairs on 29th of January
> > > (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2020/010326.html), after the
> > > previous declaration of consensus in the last PPM, indicating "some
> > > critical objections", following CPM 3.5.2.
> > >
> > > There was not an explicit indication of what are those "critical
> > > objections", and instead, the co-authors, and other community members
> > > have addressed all them.
> > >
> > > It is also noticeable that those objections are not "critical" and
> > > they were raised already during the PPM and consensus was declared. It
> > > is also interesting that people from the community, which are
> > > recognized experts, and was opposing to every other policy proposal
> > > during the PPM said "this is a good one" (speaking from top of my
> > > head, while writing this appeal, so maybe the wording is not precise).
> > >
> > > In fact, those objections could be applied to any policy proposal, as
> > > they are related to "human errors, implementation, etc.", which will
> > > mean that reverting this consensus decision in this proposal, will
> > > make clearly vulnerable the complete PDP because the same arguments
> > > can be repeated for any other proposal, and the implementation is out
> > > of the scope of a policy proposal, unless the proposal enters in those
> > > details or the staff has already provided any warning about concrete
> > > issues during the proposal presentation, which was not the case.
> > >
> > > In fact, this proposal, using the same text, has reached consensus in
> > > APNIC, ratified by the board, and it is being implemented, so if the
> > > APNIC staff has not provided non-resolvable implementations issues, it
> > > is difficult to believe that they may happen in AFRINIC (or any other
> > > RIR).
> > >
> > > Furthermore, we believe that the explanations provided during the last
> > > call to every objection were successfully refuted, not just by
> > > co-authors, but also by other member of the community, as already
> > > mention before, and none of them suggested that any change in the
> > > proposal is required. As a consequence, our understanding is that
> > > those objections are not sustained and understanding the meaning of
> > > rough consensus and last call, as per RFC7282, which all the RIR PDPs
> > > are based upon.
> > >
> > > There is also a generic and non-justified objection, repeated several
> > > times, regarding the miss-usage of the RPKI by governments, which is
> > > not the case, and it is not something that could be done by means of
> > > this proposal, but instead, enacting government control over the RIRs.
> > > It seems to indicate that the authors of those objections don't have a
> > > complete or precise view or knowledge about the RIRs and even less
> > > about RPKI and the related RFCs.
> > >
> > > The authors requested the objectors to justify that, and answers were
> > > not provided, just repetitions of the same objection. It is clear that
> > > neither for the consensus declaration in the mailing list or PPM and
> > > even less in the last call, a non-clearly-justified objection can be
> > > taken in consideration to reverse the consensus decision.
> > >
> > > That original co-chairs email was not providing a rational for that
> > > decision, and instead it suggested that more discussion was needed,
> > > but it was no clear, if they were extending the last call (CPM 3.4.3),
> > > and after insisting today, they send a reconfirmation
> > > (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2020/010391.html ) or that
> > > decision.
> > >
> > > It should be noted that we have asked the chairs in several occasions
> > > to reconsider their decision, following CPM 3.5.1
> > > (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2020/010327.html,
> > > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2020/010350.html,
> > > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2020/010377.html,
> > > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2020/010380.html,
> > > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2020/010383.html), and no
> > > further explanation of the "critical objections" and a clear rational
> > > for defining the critical objections and if the responses from authors
> > > and community addressed them, as we believe clearly is the case, has
> > > been provided.
> > >
> > > We have replied again to the co-chairs response
> > > (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2020/010392.html), which
> > > hopefully can also help the Appeal Committee to declare that the last
> > > call has succeeded and consequently the consensus decision needs to be
> > > sustained and the proposal needs to be sent to the board for
> > > ratification, following the PDP.
> > >
> > > The authors are also convinced, according to the discussion in the
> > > list, that other community members are supporting this appeal, even if
> > > this is not needed according to CPM 3.5.1.
> > >
> > > We remain at your dispossal for further clarifications which may help
> > > to resolve this appeal as soon as possible.
> > >
> > > Thanks in avance for your work!
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Jordi
> > > @jordipalet
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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