[rpd] [afnog] AIS 2020 - POSTPONEMENT

[Owen DeLong]

Since I have a working MUA, I will comment inline.



> On Mar 19, 2020, at 01:40 , JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net> wrote:

> 

> Hi Owen,

>  

> Top posting to make it short and probably to close the thread.

>  

> I think it is a matter of subjective opinion in the way the PDP text is written, and I think it will be up to the chairs and staff to interpret it, or we may never reach an agreement. Note that is not just the English text, but how you translate to your own native language.


Well, my native language is English, so I think it is fair to interpret the language as it is written in English.

As it is written, the clear plaintext meaning is not subjective and allows for any number of in-person and remote participants. Either number may be any value ≥0 and still be a valid meeting.
 

> If you don’t offer a venue for in-person, then you’re not fulfilling the text. It is correct that the venue may be “empty”, but It must “be there”.


I don’t see the text that requires a venue. Certainly, the statement of “in person” implies a venue, but the requirement is not stated outright. Further, there’s no requirement that anyone be admitted to the venue, so the office in which one of the co-chairs participates “in person” while everyone else is remote would satisfy the requirement you are implying.
 

> You know how dificult is remote participation in IETF. You know how is connecitivity for many people in Africa. Even when doing remote presentations it is dificult. Last time in Angola, it was dificult to understand Sylvain, who was doing a remote presentation of a proposal.


I’m not saying it is ideal. I’m not even thinking it will be great to conduct ARIN meeting remotely next month. However, in the case of the ARIN meeting, I think holding it remotely is preferable to complete cancellation, even though I do not look forward to the difficulties involved in doing so.

For AfriNIC, maybe the situation is different. I make no value judgments about whether or not AfriNIC _SHOULD_ hold the meeting remotely. I merely state that the rules do not preclude it and that if any group can accomplish this, it seems to me that an accomplished group of internet engineers such as the AfriNIC contains should be able to do so. Perhaps it cannot be done currently. Perhaps there will be excessive challenges. We won’t know unless we try. 
 

> I’m sure we, engineers can do it better, but I’m convinced that for ensuring a smooth virtual meeting, it will be better that some people is on-site.


We can agree to disagree. I think for ensuring the health of all participants (and anyone they will come in contact with) which to me is a higher priority than the smoothness of the meeting, fully remote participation is preferable.
 

> For sure, we need to coordinate the dates to remain the same as originally expected, otherwise, proposal co-authors may not be available.


That would be ideal, but if some reasonable postponement is necessary in order to deploy the necessary infrastructure and procedures, then I think that is better than proceeding on schedule. We are all having to find ways to adapt to changing circumstance right now. The better we control the spread of the virus, the less time these disruptions will persist.

Owen


>  

> Regards,

> Jordi

> 

> @jordipalet

> 

>  

> 

>  

>  

> El 19/3/20 3:44, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com <mailto:owen at delong.com>> escribió:

>  

>  

> 

> 

>> On Mar 18, 2020, at 14:52 , JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>> wrote:

>>  

>> Hi Sami,

>>  

>> (moved the discussion to the right place)

>>  

>> The problem I see is that the PDP doesn’t allow a virtual PDWG plenary:

>>  

>> “3.3 The Policy Development Working Group (PDWG)

>> The Policy Development Working Group (PDWG) discusses the proposals. Anyone may participate via the Internet or in person. PDWG work is carried out through the Resource Policy Discussion mailing list (rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>) and the bi-annual AFRINIC Public Policy Meetings (PPM). Any person, participating either in person or remotely, is considered to be part of the Policy Development Working Group.”

>  

> How is “In person or Remote” a prohibition of Remote only?

>  

> If the count in the room is 0 and the number of remote participants is N, then you still have N people legitimately participating in the PPM.

>  

> 

>> We may “trick” it by making an AFRINIC Public Policy Meeting, for example in the AFRINIC office if it can host “some in person participants”(possibly the co-chairs at a minimum, I will suggest also the proposal co-authors) and then all the others remotely.

>>  

>> The main problem is if we have a sufficiently good system to allow remote participation for hundreds of people, allow the co-chairs to manage the discussions and then gauge consensus.

>  

> Yes… That’s certainly the only concern I see with a 100% remote meeting. I don’t see a need to have the co-chairs or the proposal co-authors expose themselves and others to the unnecessary risks of travel at this time vs. having everyone work remotely.

>  

> We are engineers building the internet… Surely we can manage a remote meeting if we set our minds to it.

>  

> Owen

> 

> 

>>  

>> Regards,

>> Jordi

>> 

>> @jordipalet

>> 

>>  

>> 

>>  

>>  

>> El 18/3/20 22:15, "afnog en nombre de Sami Salih" <afnog-bounces at afnog.org <mailto:afnog-bounces at afnog.org> en nombre de sami.salih at outlook.com <mailto:sami.salih at outlook.com>> escribió:

>>  

>> Salam

>> 

>> Thx Nancy for the information, 

>> 

>> However, I didn't like the announcement as it is posted. I have few comments:

>> 1- whether you define a date to postpone the event, or just cancel it.

>> 2- AFNOG and AFRINIC and other AF* events should align there announcements.

>> 3- it's seems early to send such email when we are not sure about what is the situation will be in the comming 2.5 months, I recall that AFRINIC always have  plan B just a month before the event.

>> 

>> My suggestion is to cancel AFNOG and other AF* for this year and make it next year in the same host country.

>> AFRINIC PDWG and Plenary to be conducted online for two days, I prefer weekend.

>> 

>> Salam.

>> 

>> Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/ghei36>

>>  

>> From: afnog <afnog-bounces at afnog.org <mailto:afnog-bounces at afnog.org>> on behalf of Mathias HOUNGBO <mathias at houngbo.net <mailto:mathias at houngbo.net>>

>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 11:32:58 PM

>> To: nancy dotse <nancy at ghana.com <mailto:nancy at ghana.com>>; Afnog <afnog at afnog.org <mailto:afnog at afnog.org>>

>> Subject: Re: [afnog] AIS 2020 - POSTPONEMENT

>>  

>> Thanks Nancy for the update.

>>  

>> --

>> First learn the rules, Then break them to learn.

>> Le 18/03/2020 à 16:43, nancy dotse a écrit :

>>> Dear All,

>>> Good afternoon.

>>> On 16 March 2020, AfNOG, AFRINIC and the Local Host (ISPA-DRC) had another meeting to re-assess the Corona Virus pandemic as well as logistic issues.

>>> Unfortunately we concluded that a change of plans was mandatory to safeguard the health of our members, community and staff. 

>>> Thus, we agreed that it is best to postpone the AIS 2020  Workshop & Conference to a later date. We will continue to monitor the situation and adopt precautionary measures to ensure everyone’s well-being.

>>> Further, we will communicate  decisions taken in consultation with all stakeholders, and will advise on new AIS 2020 dates and

>>> the way forward in due course.

>>> Please stay safe.

>>> Kind regards

>>> Nancy

>>> AfNOG

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

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