[rpd] Attention(Correction): Focus on Policy related Discussions on RPD mailing

[Noah]

Hi Abdulkarim

I am probably older than you on this list and I assume you know that and I
know what AfriNIC policy discussions mean and how respectful I am to
principles.

The list archives tell how various discussions had happened in the past in
case anyone needs to know more about what is discussed here.

The URL you shared to yourself and to your members (please define who
these members are) is meaningless.

Section 3.0 of the PDP clearly states  the following:

3) Scope

"The Policy Development Process covers the development and modification of
policies for handling Internet Number Resources within the AfriNIC service
region. Changes to the Policy Development Process itself will also follow
the process."

The ongoing discussion is about the PDP which falls under the scope of the
PDP and therefore on  this list.

Therefore imho, let the working group conclude the important discussions
and your role as cochairs would have been to summarize the discussions and
perhaps propose the way forward.

Cheers,
Noah

https://afrinic.net/policy-development-process-in-the-afrinic-service-region

On Mon, 9 Mar 2020, 23:44 ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE, <
oloyede.aa at unilorin.edu.ng> wrote:


> Hi Noah,

>

> The RPD list is a place to discuss Internet Number Resources Allocation

> Policies in the African region. It is also a member-based list.

>

> If you recall when you first registered to be a member of this list, you

> should have seen the above clearly stated in the page.

>

> As chair, it’s our duty to have the list focused on solely its purpose -

> discussion about number resources allocation policies.

>

> I hereby attach the link, just to remind myself and my members the purpose

> of the list: https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd

>

> Please be aware that posts irrelevant to policy discussions will be

> moderated by co-chairs.

>

> Cheers,

> Co-chair

>

> On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 1:44 AM Moses Serugo <moses.serugo at gmail.com>

> wrote:

>

>> Dear PDWG members,

>>

>> Happy Women's Day!

>>

>> It's already one week into March and AIS-20 at Kinshasa DRC is drawing

>> close. We pray and hope that the corona Virus outbreak will be

>> contained soon.

>>

>> The co-chairs have been discussing about removing this discussion from the

>> RPD list as it's irrelevant to policies and policy-making matters.

>>

>> It has been observed that, this discussion has created tension among the

>> community while not contributing much regarding policy-making.

>>

>> After serious consideration, we urge all to stop the discussion here in

>> the

>> RPD list. We respect everyone's opinion and freedom of speech, but RPD is

>> just not the right place to discuss such matters.

>>

>> Let's us all please ensure that discussion on RPD mailing list are focused

>> on policies as it's the main purpose it was created.

>>

>> Thank you so much for understanding and support.

>>

>> Best regards,

>>

>> Co-chairs

>>

>>

>> On Sun, 8 Mar 2020 at 15:00, <rpd-request at afrinic.net> wrote:

>>

>>> Send RPD mailing list submissions to

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>>> than "Re: Contents of RPD digest..."

>>>

>>>

>>> Today's Topics:

>>>

>>>    1. Attention: Focus on Policy related Discussions on RPD mailing

>>>       list. (Moses Serugo)

>>>    2. Re: Travel funding for AfriNIC meetings (Noah)

>>>

>>>

>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>

>>> Message: 1

>>> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 09:05:53 +0300

>>> From: Moses Serugo <moses.serugo at gmail.com>

>>> To: rpd at afrinic.net

>>> Subject: [rpd] Attention: Focus on Policy related Discussions on RPD

>>>         mailing list.

>>> Message-ID:

>>>         <

>>> CACxMiga21rQLfCb3fjPRnj4HfMr2BNBwN9BnQRw1CXCoBZjWoQ at mail.gmail.com>

>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>>>

>>> Dear PDWG members,

>>>

>>> Happy Women's Day!

>>>

>>> It's already one week into March and AIS-20 at Kinshasa DRC is drawing

>>> close. We also hope that the corona Virus outbreak will not will be

>>> contained soon.

>>>

>>> The co-chairs have been discussing about removing this discussion from

>>> the

>>> RPD list as it?s irrelevant to policies and policy-making matters.

>>>

>>> We have observed that, this discussion has created tension among the

>>> community while not contributing much regarding policy-making.

>>>

>>> After serious consideration, we urge all to stop the discussion here in

>>> the

>>> RPD list. We respect everyone?s opinion and freedom of speech, but RPD is

>>> just not the right place to discuss such matters.

>>>

>>> Let's us all please ensure that discussion on RPD mailing list are

>>> focused

>>> on policies as it?s the main purpose it was created.

>>>

>>> Thank you so much for understanding and support.

>>>

>>> Best regards,

>>>

>>> Co-chairs

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>>> ------------------------------

>>>

>>> Message: 2

>>> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 13:36:13 +0300

>>> From: Noah <noah at neo.co.tz>

>>> To: Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com>

>>> Cc: rpd List <rpd at afrinic.net>

>>> Subject: Re: [rpd] Travel funding for AfriNIC meetings

>>> Message-ID:

>>>         <

>>> CAEqgTWbZbHVnX9EjB-xuvptKOCymop8zZPMxTtawSUfLfmoM4w at mail.gmail.com>

>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>>>

>>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 6:59 PM Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com>

>>> wrote:

>>>

>>> > Let me start off by indicating again that I do not believe this is an

>>> > appropriate topic for the rpd list - unless and until someone proposes

>>> a

>>> > policy regarding funding (which IMO will be out of bounds of the PDP).

>>> This

>>> > is a community or members list issue.

>>> >

>>>

>>> Hi Mike,

>>>

>>> This is not a member-list issue actually. Perhaps the community-list, but

>>> it is surely PDP related and should be discussed on this very rpd-list

>>> and

>>> in fact during the Public Policy Meetings. Also not everything discussed

>>> on

>>> this rpd list or at during the PPM leads to policy actions.

>>>

>>> In the case of the issue currently under discussion, the outcome might

>>> not

>>> be a proposal on funding, but rather changes in the PDP to guarantee its

>>> integrity and increase its resistance to *potential* *capture*  and

>>> *abuses*,

>>> in addition to *ethical* and conservative measures AfriNIC as an

>>> organisation must undertake.

>>>

>>>

>>> > If I can summarise:

>>> >

>>> > - many people get funding to attend meetings, some from their

>>> employers,

>>> > some from AfriNIC (excluding employees) and some from various funding

>>> > institutions;

>>> > - when travel costs are paid by an employer, we accept that the

>>> attendee

>>> > will consider the impact on the employer before engaging in discussions

>>> > (even if the views are their own). AfriNIC funded attendees (other than

>>> > employees) are expected to follow their own views - whether we agree

>>> with

>>> > them or not. We are unsure whether attendees sponsored by an opaque

>>> funding

>>> > institution may have been indoctrinated to follow a particular view.

>>> >

>>>

>>> It is not only the AfriNIC funded attendees (fellows) that are expected

>>> to

>>> follow their own views.

>>>

>>> Everyone is expected to follow their own views according to the

>>> intentions

>>> of the PDP and this is irrespective of funding source (i.e be principled

>>> and work only in the interest of AfriNIC).

>>>

>>> You have also noted impact on employer, but there?s also employer impact

>>> on

>>> what should be an individualized PDP participation across various working

>>> groups.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> > The conclusion drawn by some is that attendees sponsored by an opaque

>>> > funding institution have been indoctrinated and this somehow corrupts

>>> the

>>> > policy development process.

>>> >

>>>

>>> Interesting you refer to attendees sponsored by opaque organizations. In

>>> fact opaque organizations should not exist within the context of AfriNIC

>>> let alone to be involved in sponsoring anything related to AfriNIC

>>> activities.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> > Outside of that there has been mudslinging against various institutions

>>> > and various people, indicating yet again that our community is divided.

>>> >

>>>

>>> Please can you kindly indicate the indicated division in our community?

>>>

>>>

>>> >

>>> > In my view, the issue is not funding, or stacking the room or

>>> > indoctrination or training - it is about TRUST. In a community where

>>> few

>>> > trust each other, then the only option to improve trust is

>>> transparency.

>>> >

>>>

>>> What if it?s not about trust but rather *capture*, *control* and *abuse*

>>> of

>>> AfriNIC Internet Number Resources?

>>>

>>>

>>> >

>>> > Transparency will allow us to leap to conclusions based on affiliation

>>> -

>>> > without considering the argue. However, that seems to be the preferred

>>> mode

>>> > of operation in this community, so who am I to judge.

>>> >

>>> > In my view transparency can be achieved in two ways: (i) the

>>> publication

>>> > of a statement of interest, setting out organisational affiliations,

>>> such

>>> > as employer or clients of a consultant (and confirming that the person

>>> is a

>>> > real human and not a sock puppet) **before** participating in the rpd

>>> > list; and (ii) when at a meeting, participants must introduce

>>> themselves

>>> > and indicate their organisational affiliation **as well as anyone

>>> funding

>>> > their travel** if not their organisation. For example - my name is

>>> John,

>>> > I work at XYZ ISP and I am an AfriNIC funded fellow.

>>> >

>>> > I think those two simple approaches are basic etiquette and can be

>>> > included in the Code of Conduct. I also think AfriNIC can create a

>>> > ?statement of interest? database with minimal effort (and no personal

>>> > identifying information).

>>> >

>>> > If this is followed, aside for possible reporting of violations of the

>>> > Code of Conduct, we can remove this inane and pointless discussion

>>> from the

>>> > rpd list.

>>> >

>>>

>>> Everything was transparent up until the opaque organizations arrived with

>>> their strings attached funding from what we have seen.

>>>

>>> Noah

>>>

>>>

>>> > Mike

>>> >

>>> > _______________________________________________

>>> > RPD mailing list

>>> > RPD at afrinic.net

>>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd

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