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[rpd] Attention(Correction): Focus on Policy related Discussions on RPD mailing
Arnaud AMELINA
amelnaud at gmail.com
Thu Mar 12 09:52:49 UTC 2020
+1 @Noah
Le mer. 11 mars 2020 à 22:39, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> a écrit :
>
> Hi Abdulkarim
>
> I am probably older than you on this list and I assume you know that and I
> know what AfriNIC policy discussions mean and how respectful I am to
> principles.
>
> The list archives tell how various discussions had happened in the past in
> case anyone needs to know more about what is discussed here.
>
> The URL you shared to yourself and to your members (please define who
> these members are) is meaningless.
>
> Section 3.0 of the PDP clearly states the following:
>
> 3) Scope
>
> "The Policy Development Process covers the development and modification of
> policies for handling Internet Number Resources within the AfriNIC service
> region. Changes to the Policy Development Process itself will also follow
> the process."
>
> The ongoing discussion is about the PDP which falls under the scope of the
> PDP and therefore on this list.
>
> Therefore imho, let the working group conclude the important discussions
> and your role as cochairs would have been to summarize the discussions and
> perhaps propose the way forward.
>
> Cheers,
> Noah
>
>
> https://afrinic.net/policy-development-process-in-the-afrinic-service-region
>
> On Mon, 9 Mar 2020, 23:44 ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE, <
> oloyede.aa at unilorin.edu.ng> wrote:
>
>> Hi Noah,
>>
>> The RPD list is a place to discuss Internet Number Resources Allocation
>> Policies in the African region. It is also a member-based list.
>>
>> If you recall when you first registered to be a member of this list, you
>> should have seen the above clearly stated in the page.
>>
>> As chair, it’s our duty to have the list focused on solely its purpose -
>> discussion about number resources allocation policies.
>>
>> I hereby attach the link, just to remind myself and my members the
>> purpose of the list: https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd
>>
>> Please be aware that posts irrelevant to policy discussions will be
>> moderated by co-chairs.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Co-chair
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 1:44 AM Moses Serugo <moses.serugo at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear PDWG members,
>>>
>>> Happy Women's Day!
>>>
>>> It's already one week into March and AIS-20 at Kinshasa DRC is drawing
>>> close. We pray and hope that the corona Virus outbreak will be
>>> contained soon.
>>>
>>> The co-chairs have been discussing about removing this discussion from
>>> the
>>> RPD list as it's irrelevant to policies and policy-making matters.
>>>
>>> It has been observed that, this discussion has created tension among the
>>> community while not contributing much regarding policy-making.
>>>
>>> After serious consideration, we urge all to stop the discussion here in
>>> the
>>> RPD list. We respect everyone's opinion and freedom of speech, but RPD is
>>> just not the right place to discuss such matters.
>>>
>>> Let's us all please ensure that discussion on RPD mailing list are
>>> focused
>>> on policies as it's the main purpose it was created.
>>>
>>> Thank you so much for understanding and support.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Co-chairs
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, 8 Mar 2020 at 15:00, <rpd-request at afrinic.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Send RPD mailing list submissions to
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>> than "Re: Contents of RPD digest..."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Attention: Focus on Policy related Discussions on RPD mailing
>>>> list. (Moses Serugo)
>>>> 2. Re: Travel funding for AfriNIC meetings (Noah)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 09:05:53 +0300
>>>> From: Moses Serugo <moses.serugo at gmail.com>
>>>> To: rpd at afrinic.net
>>>> Subject: [rpd] Attention: Focus on Policy related Discussions on RPD
>>>> mailing list.
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>> <
>>>> CACxMiga21rQLfCb3fjPRnj4HfMr2BNBwN9BnQRw1CXCoBZjWoQ at mail.gmail.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>
>>>> Dear PDWG members,
>>>>
>>>> Happy Women's Day!
>>>>
>>>> It's already one week into March and AIS-20 at Kinshasa DRC is drawing
>>>> close. We also hope that the corona Virus outbreak will not will be
>>>> contained soon.
>>>>
>>>> The co-chairs have been discussing about removing this discussion from
>>>> the
>>>> RPD list as it?s irrelevant to policies and policy-making matters.
>>>>
>>>> We have observed that, this discussion has created tension among the
>>>> community while not contributing much regarding policy-making.
>>>>
>>>> After serious consideration, we urge all to stop the discussion here in
>>>> the
>>>> RPD list. We respect everyone?s opinion and freedom of speech, but RPD
>>>> is
>>>> just not the right place to discuss such matters.
>>>>
>>>> Let's us all please ensure that discussion on RPD mailing list are
>>>> focused
>>>> on policies as it?s the main purpose it was created.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you so much for understanding and support.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Co-chairs
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>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 2
>>>> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 13:36:13 +0300
>>>> From: Noah <noah at neo.co.tz>
>>>> To: Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com>
>>>> Cc: rpd List <rpd at afrinic.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [rpd] Travel funding for AfriNIC meetings
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>> <
>>>> CAEqgTWbZbHVnX9EjB-xuvptKOCymop8zZPMxTtawSUfLfmoM4w at mail.gmail.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 6:59 PM Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Let me start off by indicating again that I do not believe this is an
>>>> > appropriate topic for the rpd list - unless and until someone
>>>> proposes a
>>>> > policy regarding funding (which IMO will be out of bounds of the
>>>> PDP). This
>>>> > is a community or members list issue.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>>
>>>> This is not a member-list issue actually. Perhaps the community-list,
>>>> but
>>>> it is surely PDP related and should be discussed on this very rpd-list
>>>> and
>>>> in fact during the Public Policy Meetings. Also not everything
>>>> discussed on
>>>> this rpd list or at during the PPM leads to policy actions.
>>>>
>>>> In the case of the issue currently under discussion, the outcome might
>>>> not
>>>> be a proposal on funding, but rather changes in the PDP to guarantee its
>>>> integrity and increase its resistance to *potential* *capture* and
>>>> *abuses*,
>>>> in addition to *ethical* and conservative measures AfriNIC as an
>>>> organisation must undertake.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > If I can summarise:
>>>> >
>>>> > - many people get funding to attend meetings, some from their
>>>> employers,
>>>> > some from AfriNIC (excluding employees) and some from various funding
>>>> > institutions;
>>>> > - when travel costs are paid by an employer, we accept that the
>>>> attendee
>>>> > will consider the impact on the employer before engaging in
>>>> discussions
>>>> > (even if the views are their own). AfriNIC funded attendees (other
>>>> than
>>>> > employees) are expected to follow their own views - whether we agree
>>>> with
>>>> > them or not. We are unsure whether attendees sponsored by an opaque
>>>> funding
>>>> > institution may have been indoctrinated to follow a particular view.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> It is not only the AfriNIC funded attendees (fellows) that are expected
>>>> to
>>>> follow their own views.
>>>>
>>>> Everyone is expected to follow their own views according to the
>>>> intentions
>>>> of the PDP and this is irrespective of funding source (i.e be principled
>>>> and work only in the interest of AfriNIC).
>>>>
>>>> You have also noted impact on employer, but there?s also employer
>>>> impact on
>>>> what should be an individualized PDP participation across various
>>>> working
>>>> groups.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > The conclusion drawn by some is that attendees sponsored by an opaque
>>>> > funding institution have been indoctrinated and this somehow corrupts
>>>> the
>>>> > policy development process.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Interesting you refer to attendees sponsored by opaque organizations. In
>>>> fact opaque organizations should not exist within the context of AfriNIC
>>>> let alone to be involved in sponsoring anything related to AfriNIC
>>>> activities.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > Outside of that there has been mudslinging against various
>>>> institutions
>>>> > and various people, indicating yet again that our community is
>>>> divided.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Please can you kindly indicate the indicated division in our community?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > In my view, the issue is not funding, or stacking the room or
>>>> > indoctrination or training - it is about TRUST. In a community where
>>>> few
>>>> > trust each other, then the only option to improve trust is
>>>> transparency.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> What if it?s not about trust but rather *capture*, *control* and
>>>> *abuse* of
>>>> AfriNIC Internet Number Resources?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > Transparency will allow us to leap to conclusions based on
>>>> affiliation -
>>>> > without considering the argue. However, that seems to be the
>>>> preferred mode
>>>> > of operation in this community, so who am I to judge.
>>>> >
>>>> > In my view transparency can be achieved in two ways: (i) the
>>>> publication
>>>> > of a statement of interest, setting out organisational affiliations,
>>>> such
>>>> > as employer or clients of a consultant (and confirming that the
>>>> person is a
>>>> > real human and not a sock puppet) **before** participating in the rpd
>>>> > list; and (ii) when at a meeting, participants must introduce
>>>> themselves
>>>> > and indicate their organisational affiliation **as well as anyone
>>>> funding
>>>> > their travel** if not their organisation. For example - my name is
>>>> John,
>>>> > I work at XYZ ISP and I am an AfriNIC funded fellow.
>>>> >
>>>> > I think those two simple approaches are basic etiquette and can be
>>>> > included in the Code of Conduct. I also think AfriNIC can create a
>>>> > ?statement of interest? database with minimal effort (and no personal
>>>> > identifying information).
>>>> >
>>>> > If this is followed, aside for possible reporting of violations of the
>>>> > Code of Conduct, we can remove this inane and pointless discussion
>>>> from the
>>>> > rpd list.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Everything was transparent up until the opaque organizations arrived
>>>> with
>>>> their strings attached funding from what we have seen.
>>>>
>>>> Noah
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > Mike
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > RPD mailing list
>>>> > RPD at afrinic.net
>>>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>>>> >
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>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>>>
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>>>> RPD mailing list
>>>> RPD at afrinic.net
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>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> End of RPD Digest, Vol 162, Issue 25
>>>> ************************************
>>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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