<div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Hi Abdulkarim </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I am probably older than you on this list and I assume you know that and I know what AfriNIC policy discussions mean and how respectful I am to principles.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The list archives tell how various discussions had happened in the past in case anyone needs to know more about what is discussed here.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The URL you shared to yourself and to your members (please define who these members are) is meaningless. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Section 3.0 of the PDP clearly states the following:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">3) Scope</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">"The Policy Development Process covers the development and modification of policies for handling Internet Number Resources within the AfriNIC service region. Changes to the Policy Development Process itself will also follow the process."</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The ongoing discussion is about the PDP which falls under the scope of the PDP and therefore on this list. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Therefore imho, let the working group conclude the important discussions and your role as cochairs would have been to summarize the discussions and perhaps propose the way forward. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Cheers,</div><div dir="auto">Noah</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><a href="https://afrinic.net/policy-development-process-in-the-afrinic-service-region">https://afrinic.net/policy-development-process-in-the-afrinic-service-region</a></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 9 Mar 2020, 23:44 ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE, <<a href="mailto:oloyede.aa@unilorin.edu.ng">oloyede.aa@unilorin.edu.ng</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Noah, </div><div><br></div><div>The RPD list is a place to discuss Internet Number Resources Allocation Policies in the African region. It is also a member-based list. </div><div><br></div><div>If you recall when you first registered to be a member of this list, you should have seen the above clearly stated in the page. </div><div><br></div><div>As chair, it’s our duty to have the list focused on solely its purpose - discussion about number resources allocation policies. </div><div><br></div><div>I hereby attach the link, just to remind myself and my members the purpose of the list: <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd</a></div><div><br></div><div>Please be aware that posts irrelevant to policy discussions will be moderated by co-chairs.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers, </div><div id="m_-3478459802270594848gmail-m_-3360573100641199757yMail_cursorElementTracker_1583786240037">Co-chair</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 1:44 AM Moses Serugo <<a href="mailto:moses.serugo@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">moses.serugo@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,153)">
<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,153)"></span>Dear PDWG members,<br>
<br>
Happy Women's Day!<br>
<br>
It's already one week into March and AIS-20 at Kinshasa DRC is drawing<br>
close. We pray and hope that the corona Virus outbreak will be<br>
contained soon.<br>
<br>
The co-chairs have been discussing about removing this discussion from the<br>
RPD list as it's irrelevant to policies and policy-making matters.<br>
</div><div style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,153)"><br></div><div style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,153)">It has been observed that, this discussion has created tension among the<br>
community while not contributing much regarding policy-making.<br>
</div><div style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,153)"><br></div><div style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,153)">After serious consideration, we urge all to stop the discussion here in the<br>
RPD list. We respect everyone's opinion and freedom of speech, but RPD is<br>
just not the right place to discuss such matters.<br>
<br>
Let's us all please ensure that discussion on RPD mailing list are focused<br>
on policies as it's the main purpose it was created.<br>
<br>
Thank you so much for understanding and support.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Co-chairs
</div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, 8 Mar 2020 at 15:00, <<a href="mailto:rpd-request@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd-request@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Send RPD mailing list submissions to<br>
<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
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<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,153)"></span>Attention: Focus on Policy related Discussions on RPD mailing<br>
list. (Moses Serugo)<br>
2. Re: Travel funding for AfriNIC meetings (Noah)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 09:05:53 +0300<br>
From: Moses Serugo <<a href="mailto:moses.serugo@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">moses.serugo@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>
Subject: [rpd] Attention: Focus on Policy related Discussions on RPD<br>
mailing list.<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CACxMiga21rQLfCb3fjPRnj4HfMr2BNBwN9BnQRw1CXCoBZjWoQ@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">CACxMiga21rQLfCb3fjPRnj4HfMr2BNBwN9BnQRw1CXCoBZjWoQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,153)"></span>Dear PDWG members,<br>
<br>
Happy Women's Day!<br>
<br>
It's already one week into March and AIS-20 at Kinshasa DRC is drawing<br>
close. We also hope that the corona Virus outbreak will not will be<br>
contained soon.<br>
<br>
The co-chairs have been discussing about removing this discussion from the<br>
RPD list as it?s irrelevant to policies and policy-making matters.<br>
<br>
We have observed that, this discussion has created tension among the<br>
community while not contributing much regarding policy-making.<br>
<br>
After serious consideration, we urge all to stop the discussion here in the<br>
RPD list. We respect everyone?s opinion and freedom of speech, but RPD is<br>
just not the right place to discuss such matters.<br>
<br>
Let's us all please ensure that discussion on RPD mailing list are focused<br>
on policies as it?s the main purpose it was created.<br>
<br>
Thank you so much for understanding and support.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Co-chairs<br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 13:36:13 +0300<br>
From: Noah <<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">noah@neo.co.tz</a>><br>
To: Mike Silber <<a href="mailto:silber.mike@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">silber.mike@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: rpd List <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [rpd] Travel funding for AfriNIC meetings<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAEqgTWbZbHVnX9EjB-xuvptKOCymop8zZPMxTtawSUfLfmoM4w@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">CAEqgTWbZbHVnX9EjB-xuvptKOCymop8zZPMxTtawSUfLfmoM4w@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 6:59 PM Mike Silber <<a href="mailto:silber.mike@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">silber.mike@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Let me start off by indicating again that I do not believe this is an<br>
> appropriate topic for the rpd list - unless and until someone proposes a<br>
> policy regarding funding (which IMO will be out of bounds of the PDP). This<br>
> is a community or members list issue.<br>
><br>
<br>
Hi Mike,<br>
<br>
This is not a member-list issue actually. Perhaps the community-list, but<br>
it is surely PDP related and should be discussed on this very rpd-list and<br>
in fact during the Public Policy Meetings. Also not everything discussed on<br>
this rpd list or at during the PPM leads to policy actions.<br>
<br>
In the case of the issue currently under discussion, the outcome might not<br>
be a proposal on funding, but rather changes in the PDP to guarantee its<br>
integrity and increase its resistance to *potential* *capture* and *abuses*,<br>
in addition to *ethical* and conservative measures AfriNIC as an<br>
organisation must undertake.<br>
<br>
<br>
> If I can summarise:<br>
><br>
> - many people get funding to attend meetings, some from their employers,<br>
> some from AfriNIC (excluding employees) and some from various funding<br>
> institutions;<br>
> - when travel costs are paid by an employer, we accept that the attendee<br>
> will consider the impact on the employer before engaging in discussions<br>
> (even if the views are their own). AfriNIC funded attendees (other than<br>
> employees) are expected to follow their own views - whether we agree with<br>
> them or not. We are unsure whether attendees sponsored by an opaque funding<br>
> institution may have been indoctrinated to follow a particular view.<br>
><br>
<br>
It is not only the AfriNIC funded attendees (fellows) that are expected to<br>
follow their own views.<br>
<br>
Everyone is expected to follow their own views according to the intentions<br>
of the PDP and this is irrespective of funding source (i.e be principled<br>
and work only in the interest of AfriNIC).<br>
<br>
You have also noted impact on employer, but there?s also employer impact on<br>
what should be an individualized PDP participation across various working<br>
groups.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> The conclusion drawn by some is that attendees sponsored by an opaque<br>
> funding institution have been indoctrinated and this somehow corrupts the<br>
> policy development process.<br>
><br>
<br>
Interesting you refer to attendees sponsored by opaque organizations. In<br>
fact opaque organizations should not exist within the context of AfriNIC<br>
let alone to be involved in sponsoring anything related to AfriNIC<br>
activities.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> Outside of that there has been mudslinging against various institutions<br>
> and various people, indicating yet again that our community is divided.<br>
><br>
<br>
Please can you kindly indicate the indicated division in our community?<br>
<br>
<br>
><br>
> In my view, the issue is not funding, or stacking the room or<br>
> indoctrination or training - it is about TRUST. In a community where few<br>
> trust each other, then the only option to improve trust is transparency.<br>
><br>
<br>
What if it?s not about trust but rather *capture*, *control* and *abuse* of<br>
AfriNIC Internet Number Resources?<br>
<br>
<br>
><br>
> Transparency will allow us to leap to conclusions based on affiliation -<br>
> without considering the argue. However, that seems to be the preferred mode<br>
> of operation in this community, so who am I to judge.<br>
><br>
> In my view transparency can be achieved in two ways: (i) the publication<br>
> of a statement of interest, setting out organisational affiliations, such<br>
> as employer or clients of a consultant (and confirming that the person is a<br>
> real human and not a sock puppet) **before** participating in the rpd<br>
> list; and (ii) when at a meeting, participants must introduce themselves<br>
> and indicate their organisational affiliation **as well as anyone funding<br>
> their travel** if not their organisation. For example - my name is John,<br>
> I work at XYZ ISP and I am an AfriNIC funded fellow.<br>
><br>
> I think those two simple approaches are basic etiquette and can be<br>
> included in the Code of Conduct. I also think AfriNIC can create a<br>
> ?statement of interest? database with minimal effort (and no personal<br>
> identifying information).<br>
><br>
> If this is followed, aside for possible reporting of violations of the<br>
> Code of Conduct, we can remove this inane and pointless discussion from the<br>
> rpd list.<br>
><br>
<br>
Everything was transparent up until the opaque organizations arrived with<br>
their strings attached funding from what we have seen.<br>
<br>
Noah<br>
<br>
<br>
> Mike<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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