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[rpd] RPD Digest, Vol 161, Issue 49
Maloto Nyirenda
Maloto.Nyirenda at MTL.mw
Tue Feb 18 15:30:37 UTC 2020
It is completely very unfair to be comparing two different organizations but both dealing in internet ecosystem, it remains a choice still to apply for such, its not mandatory that their conditions can be imposed on us out of our wish, if we feel not satisfactory then its clear we will not impose ourselves on them honestly
regards,
Maloto
________________________________
From: rpd-request at afrinic.net <rpd-request at afrinic.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 5:16 PM
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Subject: RPD Digest, Vol 161, Issue 49
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Larus foundation and Afrinic PDP (Taiwo Oyewande)
2. Re: Larus foundation and Afrinic PDP (Daniel Yakmut)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 16:13:35 +0100
From: Taiwo Oyewande <taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com>
To: Tr?sor Tshilumba <tresortshilumba at gmail.com>
Cc: AfriNIC Resource Policy Discussion List <rpd at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [rpd] Larus foundation and Afrinic PDP
Message-ID: <876659F1-6A30-4F8C-9298-870B503122BE at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi all
I think it is safe to say everybody attending Afrinic enjoyed a form of sponsorship or the other.
If you are an employee, your company pays for your travel to the Afrinic meeting. And your staff contract contains several clauses which you are bond to abide by.
Comparatively what Larus does here is already Rey liberal comparing to most companies, as there is no obligation requirement for fellow to follow any specific ideology in the T&C.
If all sponsorship needs to go through Afrinic, then afrinic will sponsor everyone attending the meeting - after all, everyone is sponsored one way or another by their self, employers or other forms of sponsors.
Taiwo O
> On 18 Feb 2020, at 15:57, Tr?sor Tshilumba <tresortshilumba at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?
> Merci Christophe, sans ?tre avocat de Larus je pense que chaque structure a des valeurs qu'elle aimerait voir ses fellow respecter. Par exemple quelle serait votre r?action si vous aviez vu des boursiers Larus tenir des propos discourtois, injurieux ou racistes lors de #Afrinic31 ?
> Il y a une ligne de conduite et orientation pr?cise qu'il faut donner aux participants, sinon ?a serait du tourisme en Angola. Oui les participants ont ?t? incit?s ? ?tre proactifs, mais personne n'a ?t? ni contraint ni oblig?.
> En dernier ressort c'?tait chacun face ? sa conscience et sa morale.
> Thx
>
>> Le mar. 18 f?vr. 2020 ? 15:38, Kangamutima zabika Christophe <funga.roho at yandex.com> a ?crit :
>> Tr?sor,
>>
>> Toi qui a ?t? boursier de Larus, dans les conditions de participation ? cette bourse. Larus Fondation attend du boursier je cite "
>> ? ce qu?il participe de fa?on significative ? la r?union, et non seulement qu?il s?assoie dans la salle. Il peut s?agir d?exprimer des opinions, de r?pondre ? des commentaires, de participer ? des ? conversations dans les couloirs ? et d??changer avec d?autres participants de fa?on appropri?e." (traduction google du terms & conditions point D) Pourrais tu m'expliquer l'expression participation de fa?on appropri?e (parcequ'il s'agit d'un obligation ? laquelle le candidat s'engage ? partir du moment o? il souscrit ? la bourse). Pour cette formulation est trop lacunaire, floue.
>> KANGAMUTIMA
>>
>>
>>
>> 18.02.2020, 15:26, "Tr?sor Tshilumba" <tresortshilumba at gmail.com>:
>> Bonjour ? tous,
>> J'ai ?t? boursier Larus pour Luanda
>> Je peux vous confirmer que Larus ne fait rien de mal en facilitant la participation de ses boursier au programme comme le font et le feraient certaines autres structures.
>> Je peux aussi vous confirmer que les boursier se sont engag?s librement et en toute conscience. Et c'est aussi normal qu'ils attendent des r?sultats de la part de participants si cela rel?ve de leur strat?gie pour la fondation, je n'y vois aucun inconv?nient tant que cela n'est pas contraires aux r?gles qui g?rent AFRINIC d'autant plus que la Fondation a ?t? m?me sponsor de #Afrinic31.
>>
>> Mon interpellation serait juste au niveau de la conscience de chacun pour ?tre s?r que ce que nous faisons n'aie pas un impact n?gatif sur les g?n?rations futures qu'elles soient Africaines ou non !
>> D?sol? de faire la morale, mais si j'ai ferm? ma bouche depuis longtemps c'est parce que j'ai du mal ? me retenir une fois ouverte.
>> Que chacun fasse concorder son agenda cach? avec le bien communautaire.
>> Its not just all avoir BUSINESS !
>> Pensons aussi ? l'homme dans tout ?a!
>> Merci
>>
>> Le mar. 18 f?vr. 2020 ? 14:30, Kangamutima zabika Christophe <funga.roho at yandex.com> a ?crit :
>> Jordi+1. Je soutiens la proposition de Jordi parceque la probl?matique des boursiers influenc?s, ou contraint de participer ? d?bats avec une opinion tranch?e peut fortement peser sur l'impartialit? des d?bateurs.
>>
>> KANGAMUTIMA
>>
>> 18.02.2020, 07:04, "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD" <rpd at afrinic.net>:
>> I've proposed a very simple solution to this long time ago, which I think it is very transparent and open. Short version reminder here:
>>
>> Organizations that want to sponsor fellows are very welcome, but this need to be coordinated with AFRINIC. Sponsors don't need to know who are the fellows, AFRINIC will select them based in the rules jointly agreed with the sponsor. AFRINIC and sponsor jointly define other details such as what training materials are provided to the fellows, how they are evaluated and if they don't match certain requirements (such as not actually coming to the sessions, etc.), if they don't get reimbursed all the costs, etc.
>>
>> If a sponsor doesn't want to follow those rules, then AFRINIC could reject that sponsorship and ban them.
>>
>> This provides the same advantages to all the parties, but the community can be sure that fellows aren't influenced in any way.
>>
>> Again, this is generic idea, many other details can be fixed, but I don't think it is so difficult to match what both AFRINIC (organization), sponsors, fellows and community need.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jordi
>> @jordipalet
>>
>>
>>
>> ?El 18/2/20 15:56, "Badru Ntege" <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com> escribi?:
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On 17 Feb 2020, at 01:21, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Please just say what you mean.
>> >
>> > Owen
>>
>> It walks like a duck .... we are paying money to motivate participation.
>>
>> In another context one might call it corruption.
>>
>> Some people are publicly shifting long held positions since laurus seems to be paying. ....... looks like a duck
>>
>>
>> The evidence is clear ...must be a duck ?
>>
>> When i look back in the historical threads the Owen i know seems to be speaking a different language these days.
>>
>> But maybe its just my limited capacity to comprehend the issues at hand.
>>
>> Regards.
>> _______________________________________________
>> RPD mailing list
>> RPD at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> **********************************************
>> IPv4 is over
>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
>> http://www.theipv6company.com
>> The IPv6 Company
>>
>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
>>
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 16:16:11 +0100
From: Daniel Yakmut <yakmutd at googlemail.com>
To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>, AfriNIC
Resource Policy Discussion List <rpd at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [rpd] Larus foundation and Afrinic PDP
Message-ID: <652dd041-71de-8889-784f-463b5930177f at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
Hi Jordi, I must confess that I appreciate your dispassionate attempts
at responses to issues on the RPD. I can attest to your "No Hidden
Agenda". However, I wanted to know whether Larus Foundation was the only
organisation that attempted providing support and doing that exclusive
of the AfriNIC structure.
my expression "If we are not careful we will raise the dead" is not
native English, but a Nigerian saying that reminds us, not to start
digging things that have been buried. Note that we had previously argued
that there were certain organisations that sponsored a section of the
African community to AIS and AfriNIC with specific objective of given
them more advantage at the expense of others. Surprisingly, nothing was
wrong with their approach. I am not a paid defender of Larus Foundation,
but my people have benefited from their sponsorship and their joy of
participating is my motivation to encourage Larus Foundation. If Larus
Foundation decides to toe the line of your earlier suggestion, I am
still okay with it as long as "my people" will continue to have the
opportunity to access the fellowship. cheers
Daniel
On 18/02/2020 1:32 pm, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:
> Hi Daniel,
>
> I'm not 100% sure, because I've never been involved, but I believe there have been several organizations providing funds for sponsoring fellows, or indirectly, sponsoring AFRINIC meetings in such way that AFRINIC can "use" these funds in the best possible way.
>
> I don't understand your second point "If we are not careful we will raise the dead", probably it is an expression, but not being native English, don't make sense to me how to apply it to this context.
>
> Note that I've nothing neither for/against Larus or any other organization, so I'm transparent and I've personally said this, by pure chance *tonight* in the APNIC meeting welcome reception, to Lu Heng (Larus owner, I believe).
>
> For further disclosure, I've never done any business with Larus neither any other broker. I've sometimes provided customers contacts to some brokers, including Larus (*once* during the meeting in Kampala a year ago). I'm happy to help everyone, and I did that openly in the meeting room, with other people around, and as I always did, when he offered me a commission, I rejected it, "give a better price to the customer". Call me an idiot or whatever, but I don't feel right, neither honest to accept commissions just for providing a contact and helping both parties to be in touch. No hidden agenda from my side.
>
> If I do a work, a training, a consultancy, whatever, of course, I want to be paid for that, because it requires me investing time and providing my expertise (which cost many years to develop) and getting paid is the only way I can keep contributing to the community, pay for my food, etc.. However, getting paid a commission for dedicating *10 seconds* to send an email to connect to parties? No *I've never in my life accepted it*, and as said, I don't feel it is right.
>
> Regards,
> Jordi
> @jordipalet
>
>
>
> ?El 18/2/20 21:57, "Daniel Yakmut" <yakmutd at googlemail.com> escribi?:
>
> Hi Jordi,
>
> Has there been or is there any organization that has sponsored
> individuals to AfriNIC meetings aside Larus Foundation, independently
> outside the AfriNIC structure?
>
> If we are not careful we will raise the dead.
>
> Cheers
>
> Daniel
>
> On 18/02/2020 7:01 am, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:
> > I've proposed a very simple solution to this long time ago, which I think it is very transparent and open. Short version reminder here:
> >
> > Organizations that want to sponsor fellows are very welcome, but this need to be coordinated with AFRINIC. Sponsors don't need to know who are the fellows, AFRINIC will select them based in the rules jointly agreed with the sponsor. AFRINIC and sponsor jointly define other details such as what training materials are provided to the fellows, how they are evaluated and if they don't match certain requirements (such as not actually coming to the sessions, etc.), if they don't get reimbursed all the costs, etc.
> >
> > If a sponsor doesn't want to follow those rules, then AFRINIC could reject that sponsorship and ban them.
> >
> > This provides the same advantages to all the parties, but the community can be sure that fellows aren't influenced in any way.
> >
> > Again, this is generic idea, many other details can be fixed, but I don't think it is so difficult to match what both AFRINIC (organization), sponsors, fellows and community need.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jordi
> > @jordipalet
> >
> >
> >
> > ?El 18/2/20 15:56, "Badru Ntege" <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com> escribi?:
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On 17 Feb 2020, at 01:21, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Please just say what you mean.
> > >
> > > Owen
> >
> > It walks like a duck .... we are paying money to motivate participation.
> >
> > In another context one might call it corruption.
> >
> > Some people are publicly shifting long held positions since laurus seems to be paying. ....... looks like a duck
> >
> >
> > The evidence is clear ...must be a duck ?
> >
> > When i look back in the historical threads the Owen i know seems to be speaking a different language these days.
> >
> > But maybe its just my limited capacity to comprehend the issues at hand.
> >
> > Regards.
> > _______________________________________________
> > RPD mailing list
> > RPD at afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > **********************************************
> > IPv4 is over
> > Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> > http://www.theipv6company.com
> > The IPv6 Company
> >
> > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > RPD mailing list
> > RPD at afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>
>
>
>
> **********************************************
> IPv4 is over
> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> http://www.theipv6company.com
> The IPv6 Company
>
> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
>
>
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