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[rpd] AFRINIC Number Resources Transfer Policy
fhfrediani at gmail.com
Sun Nov 10 22:48:26 UTC 2019
This small number of very large organizations *who are able to justify a
/13 or more* are very unlikely to exist in Africa right now. And as
mentioned, even if it's the case this doesn't stop them to keep working
and serving their customers, it's not a binary thing. They can still
receive a /13 and keep working until Phase 2 is triggered soon. If the
few that may exist get - and are able to justify a /13 at once - then
Phase 2 will happen sooner and they will be able to transfer whatever
else they need afterwards. I think that is very reasonable and works
fine even for these unlikely situations.
As mentioned the real numbers are the key to this and only staff can
provide them, but I don't think it's even necessary to bother really. By
looking at the latest NRO numbers from September that doesn't seem the case.
On 10/11/2019 19:31, Owen DeLong wrote:
>> On Nov 10, 2019, at 14:01 , Fernando Frediani <fhfrediani at gmail.com
>> <mailto:fhfrediani at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> In practice this situation you describe is very hard to happen, we
>> cannot have things in place to treat the very unlikely situation and
>> that Phase 2 is about to happen soon. Until there the vast majority
>> or organization (really the vast!) can get addresses from AfriNic fine.
> So the small number of large operators should just be screwed over and
> enjoy it during that time?
> The fact that the number of operators being screwed over isn’t so much
> relevant when the number of users being screwed over by proxy in that
> process is so large.
> I’m not sufficiently familiar with the numbers in Africa to present
> an accurate example, so I will draw from what I do know.
> There are maybe 20 or so major providers in North America and
> thousands of smaller ones. However, if you look at the customer base
> served, you’ll see that those 20 or so major providers probably
> represent close to 80% of the customers in the area.
>> I hardly doubt one can justify anything more than a /13 at once at
>> the moment. Even in a remote hypothesis that is possible the
>> organization can receive the /13 and work with that until transfers
>> are allowed as per Jordi's proposal that has been changed to start
>> with Phase 2 is triggered and that organization will be able to
>> transfer whatever else is needed.
> Again, I don’t know the exact situation in Africa, but I can easily
> see major expansions of the type being conducted by at least a handful
> of providers in Africa, the most underserved continent in the world,
> as requiring significantly more than a /13.
> Even if we assume residential only and only a /32 per household, a /13
> only serves roughly 512,000 households and that’s if you can somehow
> make it nearly 100% efficient with no addressing overhead (pretty
> unlikely in any real world scenario).
>> One rule for all and much simpler.
> Sure, but that rule should include the ability to transfer if you
> choose. Obviously until AfriNIC hits Phase 2 (which will happen soon
> as you mention), transfer would be undesirable except for a small
> number of very large organizations. However, once phase 2 comes into
> play, Likely, we will hit phase 2 before this policy could be ratified
> at this point anyway.
> Once we hit phase 2, surely the scenario I describe becomes not only
> probable, but common place. Trying to run an ISP of any size by
> repeatedly requesting /22s and using them up is absurd.
>> On 10/11/2019 18:51, Owen DeLong wrote:
>>>> On Nov 10, 2019, at 10:51 , Chevalier du Borg
>>>> <virtual.borg at gmail.com <mailto:virtual.borg at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> Le dim. 10 nov. 2019 à 21:58, Jaco Kroon <jaco at uls.co.za
>>>> <mailto:jaco at uls.co.za>> a écrit :
>>>> Hi Chevalier.
>>>> Please allow me to be blunt. That's short sighted.
>>>> We cannot transfer IN from other regions unless we allow OUT.
>>>> Agree 100%,
>>>> Then you have no problems with wait till all RIRs are equal run out
>>>> before we etablish full in and out transfer policy no?
>>>> All the other RIRs require reciprocal *compatible* policies,
>>>> which means bi-directional transfers.
>>>> All RIRs don't all have equal amount of free space. Big difference
>>> Depending on your definition here, 4 out of 5 have exactly equal
>>> amount == 0.
>>>> Not allowing this means we can't get resources in either.
>>>> While AfriNIC have free space, operators don't need it
>>>> When it run out, then we can allow transfer policy
>>> This isn’t entirely true.
>>> It’s possible that an operator needs more than they can get via
>>> current AfriNIC policies due to “soft landing” limitations.
>>> In such a case, said operator might prefer to transfer a large
>>> amount of space in even if they are paying for it on the market
>>> rather than suffer with the small amount of space they can get from
>>> AfriNIC due to the current restrictions.
>>> Is there a valid reason to preclude such a transfer which, in
>>> reality, prolongs the AfriNIC free pool to the benefit of other
>>> organizations in Africa?
>>> RPD mailing list
>>> RPD at afrinic.net
>> RPD mailing list
>> RPD at afrinic.net <mailto:RPD at afrinic.net>
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