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[rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals
Marcus K. G. Adomey
madomey at hotmail.com
Fri Jul 26 00:01:23 UTC 2019
Hi Owen,
A defined state of balance or imbalance between systems, irrespective of the metrics used to measure, would consider the states at start and the expected states at the end.
If the ratio of space transferred in and out is the metric used to define imbalance and its severity, then the amount of space managed by AFRINIC compared to other RIRs before the transfer starts would count.
With the current imbalance, would you define balance as;
1 to ARIN and 1 to Afrinic or 7 to ARIN and 100 to Afrinic?
For sure the ratio will be a moving target, thus the question on what is expected outcome, how do we anticipate, measure to act if "too imbalanced"?
Marcus
________________________________
From: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2019 1:44 AM
To: Marcus K. G. Adomey <madomey at hotmail.com>
Cc: Lee Howard <lee.howard at retevia.net>; rpd at afrinic.net <rpd at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals
Marcus,
I believe that the definition of imbalance in the context of Lee’s comment would be the ratio of space transferred in to space transferred out (or perhaps number of transfers vs. number out).
I don’t think it would have anything at all to do with the differences in the amount of space managed by AfriNIC vs. the other RIRs as I don’t see how that would be relevant to a transfer policy and by definition a transfer policy would turn such ratios into a moving target anyway.
Owen
On Jul 17, 2019, at 06:08 , Marcus K. G. Adomey <madomey at hotmail.com<mailto:madomey at hotmail.com>> wrote:
Dear Lee,
Please read my response in bold and Italics
Thanks
Marcus
________________________________
From: Lee Howard <lee.howard at retevia.net<mailto:lee.howard at retevia.net>>
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2019 7:53 PM
To: rpd at afrinic.net<mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals
> While I think this is a good idea, I think the idea that the Board could halt the inter-RIR transfer if it's too imbalanced makes more sense.
Can we agree on definition and when it would be reached
- What is definition of imbalance? Imbalance can be relative asset holdings(INRs has different importance based on origin, history, reputation, destination....) and/or a rate in/out
- Would a board decision to halt the inter-RIR transfer be fair to those who would not have executed their decision to transfer?
- Wouldn’t a halt bring law suits ?
I computed some stats to help the discussions. Source: https://www.potaroo.net/bgp/iso3166/v4.html
======
IPv4 ratio AFRINIC compared to Other RIRs
AFRINIC/APNIC
13.62135915%
AFRINIC/RIPE NCC
14.71085279%
AFRINIC/ARIN
7.235144882%
AFRINIC/LACNIC
63.55396265%
AFRINIC/Global
2.823078969%
===========
> Also, everyone should deploy IPv6. This IPv4 runout is risky.
Everyone should deploy IPv6 as we keep saying for 10 years or so now, but IPv6 deployment will not automatically phase out IPv4 and we should prepare for the long term mixed world as expected. We must manage carefully the risks associated with the IPv4 run out. Time is just confirming what we knew long ago and we must adopt responsive approach to risk management.
Lee
On 7/13/19 5:38 AM, Ubah Anthony Ikechukwu wrote:
Dear Jodi,
I quite agree with Soad's suggestion on IPv4 leasing, as Afric shouldn't be boxed in.
A tripartite arrangement between Resource owner (Lessor) , the Lessee, and AfriNIC (book keeping) on resource leasing will be a way good way forward.
Since AFRINIC actually has no direct control of these resources, a policy that supports leasing is actually very necessary in keeping tap on resource flow and an open market. This will also offer a leasing guidelines and arrangement which will global for African resources leased, like leasing duration, terms and conditions, and resource protection.
If the flow of resources maintains a negative trends like some people suggest, it will be easier to control using uniform pricing and other policies or strategies deemed fit by the community.
In the mean time, I'd really love to see the impacts analyse.
Regards,
Anthony
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019, 13:00 , <rpd-request at afrinic.net<mailto:rpd-request at afrinic.net>> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals (SOUAD ABIDI)
2. Re: inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals
(JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 11:48:17 +0100
From: SOUAD ABIDI <fs_abidi at esi.dz<mailto:fs_abidi at esi.dz>>
To: AfriNIC List <rpd at afrinic.net<mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>>
Subject: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals
Message-ID:
<CAAKrF68NtNRLP=s3kYAQFsU0U1xzwbPRr65uGHt0rQKxerv1xQ at mail.gmail.com<mailto:s3kYAQFsU0U1xzwbPRr65uGHt0rQKxerv1xQ at mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hello,
As IPv4 are finite and if we do the transfer, our resources may run out
from our region-since there is no a explicit control motioned in the policy
- As some people argue.
Here what I suggest :
? Establishing a leasing contract between the seller and the buyer
up to 5 years with a possibility to renew it and AfriNIC will be the 3rd
part of the deal .
? AfriNIC takes no money and makes no approval.
? The buyer needs to be registered somehow in the world.
? The contract needs to be signed by the 3 parts
(afriNIC-seller-buyer)
So buy adopting this approach and if we notice that our resources are
running out from our region, we can decide to bring them back and the
companies do not renew the contract with .
Best regards.
Souad
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 13:08:13 +0200
From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es<mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es>>
To: AfriNIC List <rpd at afrinic.net<mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>>
Subject: Re: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals
Message-ID: <ADB5CBA8-606A-4FD2-B594-5887DF89DFAB at consulintel.es<mailto:ADB5CBA8-606A-4FD2-B594-5887DF89DFAB at consulintel.es>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi Souad,
The problem of this is that it will be useless with other RIRs, because they require reciprocity in their policies.
If we forget that the major ?donor? is ARIN and we don?t do something that it is reciprocal with their policy.
I still think my approach with the suggested changes is the best one. ASAP I can get the impact analysis, I will review the text to accommodate to it and send a new version.
Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
El 12/7/19 12:55, "SOUAD ABIDI" <fs_abidi at esi.dz<mailto:fs_abidi at esi.dz>> escribi?:
Hello,
As IPv4 are finite and if we do the transfer, our resources may run out from our region-since there is no a explicit control motioned in the policy - As some people argue.
Here what I suggest :
? Establishing a leasing contract between the seller and the buyer up to 5 years with a possibility to renew it and AfriNIC will be the 3rd part of the deal .
? AfriNIC takes no money and makes no approval.
? The buyer needs to be registered somehow in the world.
? The contract needs to be signed by the 3 parts (afriNIC-seller-buyer)
So buy adopting this approach and if we notice that our resources are running out from our region, we can decide to bring them back and the companies do not renew the contract with .
Best regards.
Souad
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