[rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals

[Jaco Kroon]

Hi All,

Whilst I appreciate the significance of a lease, and the benefits, it's 
plain an simple, it doesn't solve our issue.

We need to be able to migrate resources in towards AfriNIC. Since ALL 
other registries requires a reciprocal transfer policy, in other words:

If we want to enable transfer to AfriNIC, we must also allow transfer 
away from us.

It's that simple.  There is no logical option other than to support the 
transfer policy to enable both in- and outbound transfers.


Kind Regards,
Jaco Kroon
C.E.O.

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On 2019/07/14 02:07, Ubah Anthony Ikechukwu wrote:

> Hello Lee,

>

> Like I suggested earlier, AfriNIC will have no influence over such 

> transactions, and thus can not alter lease terms directly. The 

> significance of the body's presence is only as a book keeper.

>

> Kind Regards,

>

> Anthony

>

>

> On Sat, 13 Jul 2019, 20:54 , <rpd-request at afrinic.net 

> <mailto:rpd-request at afrinic.net>> wrote:

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>     Today's Topics:

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>        1. Re: inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals (Lee Howard)

>

>

>     ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>     Message: 1

>     Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2019 15:53:35 -0400

>     From: Lee Howard <lee.howard at retevia.net

>     <mailto:lee.howard at retevia.net>>

>     To: rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>

>     Subject: Re: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals

>     Message-ID: <e89d92f1-7031-8170-3790-79907bd7a31f at retevia.net

>     <mailto:e89d92f1-7031-8170-3790-79907bd7a31f at retevia.net>>

>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

>

>     I like the idea of leasing, in general.

>

>     I'm not sure this three-party contract will work. In a regular

>     leasing

>     contract, the lessor and lessee (the one leasing out the addresses

>     and

>     the one taking them in) negotiate the terms of the contract,

>     including

>     the term of the lease. If the lessor wants their addresses back, they

>     have to give certain notice to the lessee.

>

>     If I were leasing addresses, I would want to make sure I could

>     keep them

>     for as long as I would need them. Maybe that's two years while I

>     deploy

>     my IPv6 and translators. Maybe that's five years and I think IPv4

>     won't

>     be as necessary by then. I wouldn't go into the contract unless it

>     solved my problem.

>

>     If part way through the contract a third party (Afrinic) decided to

>     cancel it, what would I do then? Would I have to go buy IPv4

>     addresses

>     at whatever market rate happened to be?

>

>     If were an African company and had addresses I could sell, but

>     decided

>     to lease to a non-African company, I would be budgeting based on that

>     revenue. If Afrinic suddenly canceled my contract, I don't have that

>     revenue any more. If I've been building out my network because I

>     new I

>     had thousands of dollars coming in, and suddenly I don't, I might

>     have

>     expenses I can't cover. What happens then?

>

>     While I think this is a good idea, I think the idea that the Board

>     could

>     halt the inter-RIR transfer if it's too imbalanced makes more sense.

>

>     Also, everyone should deploy IPv6. This IPv4 runout is risky.

>

>     Lee

>

>     On 7/13/19 5:38 AM, Ubah Anthony Ikechukwu wrote:

>     > Dear Jodi,

>     >

>     > I quite agree?with Soad's suggestion on IPv4 leasing, as Afric

>     > shouldn't be boxed in.

>     > A tripartite arrangement between Resource owner (Lessor) , the

>     Lessee,

>     > and AfriNIC (book keeping) on resource leasing will be a way

>     good way

>     > forward.

>     >

>     > Since AFRINIC actually has no direct control of these resources, a

>     > policy that supports leasing is actually very necessary in

>     keeping tap

>     > on resource flow and an open market. This will also offer a leasing

>     > guidelines and arrangement which will global for African resources

>     > leased, like leasing duration, terms and conditions, and resource

>     > protection.

>     >

>     > If the flow of resources maintains a negative trends like some

>     people

>     > suggest, it will be easier to control using uniform pricing and

>     other

>     > policies or strategies deemed fit by the community.

>     >

>     > In the mean time, I'd really love to see the impacts analyse.

>     >

>     >

>     > Regards,

>     >

>     > Anthony

>     >

>     > On Fri, 12 Jul 2019, 13:00 , <rpd-request at afrinic.net

>     <mailto:rpd-request at afrinic.net>

>     > <mailto:rpd-request at afrinic.net

>     <mailto:rpd-request at afrinic.net>>> wrote:

>     >

>     >     Send RPD mailing list submissions to

>     > rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net> <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net

>     <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>>

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>     >     Today's Topics:

>     >

>     >     ? ?1.? inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals (SOUAD ABIDI)

>     >     ? ?2. Re: inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals

>     >     ? ? ? (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)

>     >

>     >

>     >

>      ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>     >

>     >     Message: 1

>     >     Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 11:48:17 +0100

>     >     From: SOUAD ABIDI <fs_abidi at esi.dz <mailto:fs_abidi at esi.dz>

>     <mailto:fs_abidi at esi.dz <mailto:fs_abidi at esi.dz>>>

>     >     To: AfriNIC List <rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>

>     <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>>>

>     >     Subject: [rpd]? inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals

>     >     Message-ID:

>     >     ? ? ? ?

>     >   

>      <CAAKrF68NtNRLP=s3kYAQFsU0U1xzwbPRr65uGHt0rQKxerv1xQ at mail.gmail.com

>     <mailto:s3kYAQFsU0U1xzwbPRr65uGHt0rQKxerv1xQ at mail.gmail.com>

>     >     <mailto:s3kYAQFsU0U1xzwbPRr65uGHt0rQKxerv1xQ at mail.gmail.com

>     <mailto:s3kYAQFsU0U1xzwbPRr65uGHt0rQKxerv1xQ at mail.gmail.com>>>

>     >     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>     >

>     >     Hello,

>     >

>     >     As IPv4 are finite and if we do the transfer, our resources may

>     >     run out

>     >     from our region-since there is no a explicit control motioned in

>     >     the policy

>     >     - As some people argue.

>     >     Here what I suggest :

>     >

>     >     ?? ? ? ? ?Establishing a leasing contract between the seller and

>     >     the buyer

>     >     up to 5? years with a possibility to renew it and AfriNIC

>     will be

>     >     the 3rd

>     >     part of the? ? ? ? ? deal .

>     >

>     >     ?? ? ? ? ?AfriNIC takes no money? and? makes no? approval.

>     >

>     >     ?? ? ? ? ?The buyer needs to be registered somehow in the world.

>     >

>     >     ?? ? ? ? ?The contract needs to be signed by the 3 parts

>     >     (afriNIC-seller-buyer)

>     >

>     >     So buy adopting? this approach and? if we notice that our

>     >     resources are

>     >     running out from our region, we can decide to bring them

>     back and the

>     >     companies do not renew the contract with .

>     >

>     >

>     >     Best regards.

>     >

>     >     Souad

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>     >

>     >     ------------------------------

>     >

>     >     Message: 2

>     >     Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 13:08:13 +0200

>     >     From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es

>     <mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es>

>     >     <mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es

>     <mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es>>>

>     >     To: AfriNIC List <rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>

>     <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>>>

>     >     Subject: Re: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals

>     >     Message-ID:

>     <ADB5CBA8-606A-4FD2-B594-5887DF89DFAB at consulintel.es

>     <mailto:ADB5CBA8-606A-4FD2-B594-5887DF89DFAB at consulintel.es>

>     >     <mailto:ADB5CBA8-606A-4FD2-B594-5887DF89DFAB at consulintel.es

>     <mailto:ADB5CBA8-606A-4FD2-B594-5887DF89DFAB at consulintel.es>>>

>     >     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>     >

>     >     Hi Souad,

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >     The problem of this is that it will be useless with other RIRs,

>     >     because they require reciprocity in their policies.

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >     If we forget that the major ?donor? is ARIN and we don?t do

>     >     something that it is reciprocal with their policy.

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >     I still think my approach with the suggested changes is the best

>     >     one. ASAP I can get the impact analysis, I will review the

>     text to

>     >     accommodate to it and send a new version.

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >     Regards,

>     >

>     >     Jordi

>     >

>     >     @jordipalet

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >     El 12/7/19 12:55, "SOUAD ABIDI" <fs_abidi at esi.dz

>     <mailto:fs_abidi at esi.dz>

>     >     <mailto:fs_abidi at esi.dz <mailto:fs_abidi at esi.dz>>> escribi?:

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >     Hello,

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >     As IPv4 are finite and if we do the transfer, our resources may

>     >     run out from our region-since there is no a explicit control

>     >     motioned in the policy - As some people argue.

>     >

>     >     Here what I suggest :

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >     ?? ? ? ? ?Establishing a leasing contract between the seller and

>     >     the buyer up to 5? years with a possibility to renew it and

>     >     AfriNIC? will be the 3rd part of the deal .

>     >

>     >     ?? ? ? ? ?AfriNIC takes no money? and? makes no approval.

>     >

>     >     ?? ? ? ? ?The buyer needs to be registered somehow in the world.

>     >

>     >     ?? ? ? ? ?The contract needs to be signed by the 3 parts

>     >     (afriNIC-seller-buyer)

>     >

>     >     So buy adopting? this approach and? if we notice that our

>     >     resources are running out from our region, we can decide to

>     bring

>     >     them back and the companies do not renew the contract with .

>     >

>     >

>     >

>     >     Best regards.

>     >

>     >     Souad

>     >

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