[rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals

Wed Jun 19 07:48:58 UTC 2019

Though I don't have am opportunity to speak public in the ongoing
discussion but I believe my opinion will be heard on the mailing list.
I am in full support of this policy because it will enhance collaboration
between the AFRINIC and other region and also help AFRINIC and it's
community to spread and achieve more resources which they're afraid of
losing or running out of.
Please we should hurry up and adopt this policy because it has more
advantage than disadvantage.

Thanks,
Humbly Eucharia

On Wed, Jun 19, 2019, 10:06 <rpd-request at afrinic.net> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Re: inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals (peace nnenna)
>       (Emem William)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 08:00:06 +0100
> From: Emem William <dwizard65 at gmail.com>
> To: rpd at afrinic.net
> Subject: Re: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals (peace
>         nnenna)
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CABPhykNBCHLLVz3T-Y7S8+ywEwinWacutsr2kAUZutEuOEVo7w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear Daniel,
> I do not think this proposal is aimed at deplating our resources. It
> utilization of the needed resources.
> Thanks
> William Emem
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 19, 2019, 07:53 <rpd-request at afrinic.net wrote:
>
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> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. Re: inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals (peace nnenna)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 09:52:24 +0300
> > From: peace nnenna <peacennennagorgues at gmail.com>
> > To: RPD at afrinic.net
> > Subject: Re: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals
> > Message-ID:
> >         <
> > CAGKwtiW-H2LD3O1M6wf75yDiHRDeE6b_11dcLO7sKF0fSD4gtQ at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Hello Daniel,
> >
> > The fact that African region is at the exhaustion stage makes us ready to
> > consider this transfer of resources from other regions.
> > How do we support the growth of internet in African  if we don't allow
> > transfer of resources Again I don't think there is much different between
> > the two  in mean internet in Africa and digital transformation in growth
> > of Africa, the two works together.
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Peace Nnenna.
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 21:46 DANIEL NANGHAKA <dndannang at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Jordi,
> > > In case the other regions allow bidirectional transfer, Africa region
> is
> > > not yet ready for the transfers.
> > >
> > > I suggest you should be supporting the growth of the internet in Africa
> > > and not aim for transfer of resources that are required for the digital
> > > transformation and growth of Africa.
> > >
> > > In case ARIN is giving more resource, what is the review behind this
> > > resources. I don't think ARIN would gladly transfer resources to region
> > > which has not depleted its resources. Let Africa show that's its
> > resources
> > > are depleted then push for the transfer but we resources which are
> > required
> > > by other regions. Let's  use this resources in the region.
> > >
> > > Daniel K. Nanghaka
> > > On Jun 18, 2019 9:12 PM, <rpd-request at afrinic.net> wrote:
> > >
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> > >>
> > >> Today's Topics:
> > >>
> > >>    1. Re: inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals - AFRINIC needs
> > >>       this policy now! (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >> Message: 1
> > >> Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 21:10:45 +0300
> > >> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
> > >> To: "rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy" <rpd at afrinic.net>
> > >> Subject: Re: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals - AFRINIC
> > >>         needs this policy now!
> > >> Message-ID: <83B33FFF-B1CB-4D1E-9CBF-1E9670BF10CA at consulintel.es>
> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> > >>
> > >> Hi Paschal,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> All the existing policies (APNIC, ARIN, LACNIC and RIPE) allow
> > >> bi-direccional transfers without looking at any balance or any
> > restrictions.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> There is no restriction in any of those policies to say something like
> > >> ?we only allow n% of outgoing transfers vs incoming ones?.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> As said a number of times, the region that is ?giving? more addressess
> > is
> > >> ARIN. Please see my presentation tomorrow on this (still working on it
> > >> right now).
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >>
> > >> Jordi
> > >>
> > >> @jordipalet
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> El 18/6/19 20:59, "Paschal Ochang" <pascosoft at gmail.com> escribi?:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Based on your analogy Howard it therefore means that this policy will
> > >> benefit the region. The major fear is not just the balance of
> resources
> > >> flow but  more resources going out and less coming in and this
> proposal
> > >> clearly shows that this region will benefit from the policy because
> more
> > >> resources will flow in the region. Is there any region that will allow
> > only
> > >> outflow of resources without inflow?  I don't think so.
> > >> On Tuesday, June 18, 2019, Lee Howard <lee.howard at retevia.net> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> This is interesting.
> > >>
> > >> My logic goes like this:
> > >>
> > >> 1. Afrinic has a finite number of IPv4 addresses to allocate/assign.
> > >>
> > >> 2. Afrinic will run out of those addresses next year.
> > >>
> > >> 3. Once Afrinic runs out, any network needing more IPv4 addresses not
> be
> > >> able to get them from Afrinic.
> > >>
> > >> 4. Networks needing more addresses will have choices:
> > >>
> > >>   4a. Stop growing.
> > >>
> > >>   4b. Use (carrier-grade) NAT. Even NAT requires some IPv4 addresses.
> > >>
> > >>   4c. Try to find addresses inside Africa that are for sale.
> > >>
> > >> Evaluating those options:
> > >>
> > >> 4a is bad for the region.
> > >>
> > >> 4b is complicated. It means buying more hardware, updating some
> systems.
> > >> Some things don't work well with NAT. If you can deploy IPv6 and use
> > NAT64,
> > >> 464xlat, MAP-T or MAP-E, you reduce that cost, but it's still more
> than
> > you
> > >> spend now.
> > >>
> > >> 4c could get very expensive. Demand for IPv4 addresses has been around
> > >> 25,000 /24s per year (with some much higher peaks) since Afrinic was
> > >> founded.[1] The Afrinic region has about seven /8s in total.[2] If
> > demand
> > >> continues, then more than 6M of those 112M addresses would have to be
> > >> traded every year, somewhere between 1/2% - 1%.
> > >>
> > >> The question then is whether you think there are more underutilized
> IPv4
> > >> addresses in the U.S. or in Africa. Assuming a perfect market:
> > >>
> > >> If Africa is more efficient, and Afrinic's transfer policy is only
> > within
> > >> the region, then the few unused IPv4 addresses will sell for a higher
> > price
> > >> than addresses elsewhere.[3]
> > >>
> > >> If Africa is less efficient and Afrinic's transfer policy is only
> within
> > >> the region, then unused addresses will be cheaper than elsewhere.
> > >>
> > >> If Africa is more efficient and Afrinic has an inter-regional transfer
> > >> policy, addresses will be valued more highly in Africa and addresses
> > will
> > >> come in.
> > >>
> > >> If Africa is less efficient that the rest of the world and Afrinic has
> > an
> > >> inter-regional transfer policy, buyers in other countries will buy
> > >> addresses from Africa.
> > >>
> > >> My guess is that addresses in Africa are pretty efficiently utilized,
> > and
> > >> therefore people in Africa will have a higher need for addresses than
> > >> people elsewhere, and therefore a) prices will rise, and b) addresses
> > will
> > >> tend to flow in to Africa rather than out.
> > >>
> > >> Lee
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> [1] https://afrinic.net/stats/ipv4
> > >>
> > >> [2] https://www.nro.net/wp-content/uploads/NRO-Statistics-2019-Q1.pdf
> > >>
> > >> [3] https://www.retevia.net/address-pricing-2019-and-beyond/ easily
> $30
> > >> per address next year, maybe much higher
> > >>
> > >> On 6/18/19 8:18 AM, Pascal ANDRIANISA wrote:
> > >> Thank you Jordi
> > >> if in the opposite case the remaining resources at AFRINIC will be
> > >> transferred to other RIRs. It is true that I am not against but I do
> not
> > >> agree that the current resources insufficient according to the
> > information
> > >> I received since AFRINIC-29 will be transferred to other RIR.
> > >> If you can guarantee this balance of resources transfer I think it
> will
> > >> be logical for AFRINIC. Unlike so if AFRINIC has a lot of resources it
> > will
> > >> be good for the community.
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >>
> > >> Pascal Heriliva ANDRIANISA
> > >> Webmaster i RENALA
> > >> R esearch and E ducation N etwork for A cademic and L earning A
> > ctivities
> > >> - [ http://www.irenala.edu.mg/ | http://www.irenala.edu.mg/ ]
> > >> Porte 201 - Minist?re de l'Enseignement Sup?rieur et de la Recherche
> > >> Scientifique - Fiadanana
> > >> GSM :+261 (0) 32 46 680 29 | +261 (0) 34 30 680 29
> > >>
> > >> ----- Mail original -----
> > >> De: "rpd" <rpd at afrinic.net>
> > >> ?: "rpd" <rpd at afrinic.net>
> > >> Envoy?: Mardi 18 Juin 2019 14:55:02
> > >> Objet: Re: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals - AFRINIC
> > >> needs this policy now!
> > >>
> > >> Hi Pascal,
> > >>
> > >> Precisely what you said is the argument in favor of this policy
> > proposal,
> > >> not against.
> > >>
> > >> AFRINIC don't have enough resources. The only way to receive resources
> > is
> > >> a policy that allows that other regions that are "giving up"
> resources,
> > can
> > >> get them.
> > >>
> > >> This is the case for LACNIC (the same policy proposal reached
> consensus
> > >> in the last meeting and yesterday the consensus decision was handed
> out
> > to
> > >> the board for the final ratification), and for AFRINIC.
> > >>
> > >> AFRINIC must have an equivalent policy proposal to the ones that exist
> > in
> > >> the other regions, otherwise, you will not get sufficient resources
> for
> > the
> > >> continued implementation of IPv4 in the region and this will also be a
> > >> barrier for the IPv6 deployment.
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >> Jordi
> > >> @jordipalet
> > >>
> > >> ?
> > >>
> > >> ?El 18/6/19 10:48, "Pascal ANDRIANISA" <pascal at irenala.edu.mg>
> > escribi?:
> > >>
> > >> ??? Hi Jordi,
> > >> ????I read the policy proposal for IPV4 Inter-RIR Transfert.??
> > >> ????The article =>
> > >> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-002-d1#proposal
> > >> ??? <https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-002-d1#proposal
> ??
> > ?>??
> > >> I think this is not the benefit of AFRINIC as resources are currently
> > >> insufficient for AFRINIC.
> > >> ??? Otherwise it is necessary to balance the transfers between RIR
> > >> because at least the number of resources is limited to sending to
> other
> > >> RIRs.
> > >> ???
> > >> ????I do not support this policy for this reason, The AFRINIC's
> > resources
> > >> are not enough for AFRICA, why transfer them elsewhere ....
> > >> ????
> > >> ????Pascal Heriliva ANDRIANISA
> > >> ????Webmaster i RENALA
> > >> ????R esearch and E ducation N etwork for A cademic and L earning A
> > >> ctivities - [ http://www.irenala.edu.mg/ | http://www.irenala.edu.mg/
> ]
> > >> ????Porte 201 - Minist?re de l'Enseignement Sup?rieur et de la
> Recherche
> > >> Scientifique - Fiadanana
> > >> ????GSM :+261 (0) 32 46 680 29 | +261 (0) 34 30 680 29
> > >> ???
> > >> ????----- Mail original -----
> > >> ??? De: "rpd" <rpd at afrinic.net>
> > >> ??? ?: "rpd" <rpd at afrinic.net>
> > >> ??? Envoy?: Samedi 15 Juin 2019 13:23:23
> > >> ??? Objet: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals - AFRINIC
> > >> needs this policy now!
> > >> ???
> > >> ????Hi all,
> > >> ???
> > >> ????I wonder if anyone has inputs on the policy proposals for IPv4
> > >> Inter-RIR transfers.
> > >> ???
> > >> ????https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-001-d1
> > >> ???
> > >> ????and
> > >> ???
> > >> ????https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-002-d1
> > >> ???
> > >> ????I will be presenting both of them together on Wednesday 19th. If
> > >> you're not in Kampala, make sure to participate remotely (
> > >> https://www.internetsummit.africa/en/participate-remotely), so we can
> > >> resolve any doubts on the spot.
> > >> ???
> > >> ????This is a key issue for AFRINIC, which now is the *only* RIR not
> > >> allowing those transfers.
> > >> ???
> > >> ????AFRINIC is soon (probably around end of this year) entering in
> > >> exhaustion phase 2, so it will become more and more difficult to
> obtain
> > >> IPv4. If transfers from other regions aren't allowed, this will be an
> > added
> > >> difficulty for the Internet growth in the region, and increase the
> > >> difficulties for the continued IPv6 deployment.
> > >> ???
> > >> ????The region needs this policy *now*, because the implementation
> > >> requires several months as there is a need to coordinate with the
> > systems
> > >> of the other RIRs, in order to ensure a transparent transfers process.
> > >> ???
> > >> ????So, what is your opinion?
> > >> ????
> > >> ????Regards,
> > >> ??? Jordi
> > >> ??? @jordipalet
> > >> ????
> > >> ?????
> > >> ????
> > >> ????
> > >> ????
> > >> ????**********************************************
> > >> ??? IPv4 is over
> > >> ??? Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> > >> ??? http://www.theipv6company.com
> > >> ??? The IPv6 Company
> > >> ???
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> > >> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> > >> http://www.theipv6company.com
> > >> The IPv6 Company
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