[rpd] Fwd: [arin-ppml] Micfo

[Noah]

On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 12:59 PM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <
jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:

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> El 16/5/19 11:15, "Noah" <noah at neo.co.tz> escribió:
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> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 11:46 AM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <
> jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:
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> Hi Noah,
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> El 16/5/19 10:36, "Noah" <noah at neo.co.tz> escribió:
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> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 11:16 AM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <
> jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:
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> I said “new” policy. This was written long time ago, not doing random
> audits. The overall goal is to review when there is a reason to believe
> that something is wrong.
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> Yes you said new policy hence my question to you Jordi, considering the
> fact you are an active policy proposer of various new policy which stem
> from issues you seem to always identify and see the need to fix.
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> Not sure what is the question, but let me express this:
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> In general, I would only propose a policy if there is something really
> “wrong” or “broken” in existing policies or legal documents. In all the
> RIRs there is a lack of participation from the community, having more
> policies will not help (on the other way around). So, if a policy is not
> really needed, I will prefer not to submit it.
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> I don’t think this is not fixed already in AFRINIC, that’s why I think
> this proposal is not needed.
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> On the other hand, the policy authors and supporters of the proposal think
> otherwise.
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> I see that, but I don’t see an ample community support, and instead a wide
> opposition.
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> All the RIRs can actually do that, even if there is not a policy.
> Membership agreement, service agreement, and sometimes other policies,
> already detail it.
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> Looks like only ARIN is willing too....maybe other RIR can pick some
> lessons.
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> All the RIRs do that. However, I don’t think they publicly will provide
> all the information of each case.
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> Wouldn't it be better to be transparent with such cases like in the case
> of ARIN.
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> Fully agree.
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> The specific point about the recent new from this ARIN case is the “size”
> of it. There are plenty of investigations and recoveries in every RIR, they
> aren’t publicly presented. A big “case” captures press attention as well.
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> Maybe we can ask AFRINIC staff, without disclosing confidential info, how
> many recovery cases have been investigated in the last few years.
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> What I know is AfriNIC does publish only recovery records of member
> closures as per below link.
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> https://afrinic.net/stats/closures
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> I think it clearly demonstrates that AFRINIC is doing his job.
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Obviously for closures yes.... after all the member in such cases are out
of business and it makes sense for AfriNIC to recover the INR back into its
inventory. Same happens when member can no longer pay their memberships
fees so INR are recovered.

For the cases of fraud and noncompliance, I have not come across any such
records from AfriNIC.


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> So maybe we should indeed request AfriNIC to inform if there has ever been
> any other recoveries beyond closure.
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> My guess, but it will be good to get a staff response, is that those are
> distributed already among the reclaimed and the voluntary cases. If AFRINIC
> founds a fraud, it can:
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>    1. Ask the voluntary return of the non-justified resources.
>    2. If the member doesn’t voluntarily return them, reclaim them and
>    close the member.
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> The point is how much power and cost this policy brings.
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> There has been ongoing discussions among the working group to continue
> improving the said policy.
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> And that’s the problem, the policy is discussing about a level of problem
> that is very expensive for both AFRINIC and the community, without a real
> reason for it.
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> The issue of the process being expensive can be left to AfriNIC to
> determine imho.
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> We need to see the impact analysis on this point.
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Yes we do and that is for staff to determine as is the practice.


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