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[rpd] Fwd: [arin-ppml] Micfo

Thu May 16 09:59:14 UTC 2019



El 16/5/19 11:15, "Noah" <noah at> escribió:




On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 11:46 AM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at> wrote:

Hi Noah,


El 16/5/19 10:36, "Noah" <noah at> escribió:




On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 11:16 AM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at> wrote:

I said “new” policy. This was written long time ago, not doing random audits. The overall goal is to review when there is a reason to believe that something is wrong.


Yes you said new policy hence my question to you Jordi, considering the fact you are an active policy proposer of various new policy which stem from issues you seem to always identify and see the need to fix.


Not sure what is the question, but let me express this:


In general, I would only propose a policy if there is something really “wrong” or “broken” in existing policies or legal documents. In all the RIRs there is a lack of participation from the community, having more policies will not help (on the other way around). So, if a policy is not really needed, I will prefer not to submit it.


I don’t think this is not fixed already in AFRINIC, that’s why I think this proposal is not needed.


On the other hand, the policy authors and supporters of the proposal think otherwise. 


I see that, but I don’t see an ample community support, and instead a wide opposition.


All the RIRs can actually do that, even if there is not a policy. Membership agreement, service agreement, and sometimes other policies, already detail it. 


Looks like only ARIN is willing too....maybe other RIR can pick some lessons.


All the RIRs do that. However, I don’t think they publicly will provide all the information of each case.


Wouldn't it be better to be transparent with such cases like in the case of ARIN.


Fully agree.


The specific point about the recent new from this ARIN case is the “size” of it. There are plenty of investigations and recoveries in every RIR, they aren’t publicly presented. A big “case” captures press attention as well.


Maybe we can ask AFRINIC staff, without disclosing confidential info, how many recovery cases have been investigated in the last few years.


What I know is AfriNIC does publish only recovery records of member closures as per below link.


I think it clearly demonstrates that AFRINIC is doing his job.


So maybe we should indeed request AfriNIC to inform if there has ever been any other recoveries beyond closure.


My guess, but it will be good to get a staff response, is that those are distributed already among the reclaimed and the voluntary cases. If AFRINIC founds a fraud, it can:
Ask the voluntary return of the non-justified resources.
If the member doesn’t voluntarily return them, reclaim them and close the member.

The point is how much power and cost this policy brings.


There has been ongoing discussions among the working group to continue improving the said policy.


And that’s the problem, the policy is discussing about a level of problem that is very expensive for both AFRINIC and the community, without a real reason for it.


The issue of the process being expensive can be left to AfriNIC to determine imho. 


We need to see the impact analysis on this point.


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