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--></style></head><body lang=ES link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=ES-TRAD style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=ES-TRAD style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>El 16/5/19 11:15, "Noah" <<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz">noah@neo.co.tz</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 11:46 AM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=ES-TRAD style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hi Noah,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=ES-TRAD style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>El 16/5/19 10:36, "Noah" <<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz" target="_blank">noah@neo.co.tz</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 11:16 AM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>I said “new” policy. This was written long time ago, not doing random audits. The overall goal is to review when there is a reason to believe that something is wrong.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>Yes you said new policy hence my question to you Jordi, considering the fact you are an active policy proposer of various new policy which stem from issues you seem to always identify and see the need to fix.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Not sure what is the question, but let me express this:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>In general, I would only propose a policy if there is something really “wrong” or “broken” in existing policies or legal documents. In all the RIRs there is a lack of participation from the community, having more policies will not help (on the other way around). So, if a policy is not really needed, I will prefer not to submit it.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>I don’t think this is not fixed already in AFRINIC, that’s why I think this proposal is not needed.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On the other hand, the policy authors and supporters of the proposal think otherwise. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>I see that, but I don’t see an ample community support, and instead a wide opposition.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)'><div><div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>All the RIRs can actually do that, even if there is not a policy. Membership agreement, service agreement, and sometimes other policies, already detail it. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>Looks like only ARIN is willing too....maybe other RIR can pick some lessons.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>All the RIRs do that. However, I don’t think they publicly will provide all the information of each case.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Wouldn't it be better to be transparent with such cases like in the case of ARIN.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Fully agree.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>The specific point about the recent new from this ARIN case is the “size” of it. There are plenty of investigations and recoveries in every RIR, they aren’t publicly presented. A big “case” captures press attention as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Maybe we can ask AFRINIC staff, without disclosing confidential info, how many recovery cases have been investigated in the last few years.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>What I know is AfriNIC does publish only recovery records of member closures as per below link. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><a href="https://afrinic.net/stats/closures" target="_blank">https://afrinic.net/stats/closures</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>I think it clearly demonstrates that AFRINIC is doing his job.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>So maybe we should indeed request AfriNIC to inform if there has ever been any other recoveries beyond closure.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>My guess, but it will be good to get a staff response, is that those are distributed already among the reclaimed and the voluntary cases. If AFRINIC founds a fraud, it can:<o:p></o:p></span></p><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=1 type=1><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Ask the voluntary return of the non-justified resources.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>If the member doesn’t voluntarily return them, reclaim them and close the member.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>The point is how much power and cost this policy brings.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>There has been ongoing discussions among the working group to continue improving the said policy.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>And that’s the problem, the policy is discussing about a level of problem that is very expensive for both AFRINIC and the community, without a real reason for it.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>The issue of the process being expensive can be left to AfriNIC to determine imho. <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>We need to see the impact analysis on this point.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><br>**********************************************<br>
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