[rpd] Questions for Alain...

Wed Jun 6 13:21:53 UTC 2018

Hum !

Dear Dabu,

The intra - RIR transfer proposal was submitted   on 23 may 2016,  so after
the review policy proposal which was submitted on 18 May 2016. Also the
Acknowledgement  section was added from version 2 while the alignment with
the transfer policy was done at version 5, based on suggestions  from the
WG discussions.
The Acknowledgement section at version 3 was extended  to the community
 for the discussions and contributions
So no quick  and easy linkage

###################################################################################
5.0 Revision History
Date
Details
18 May 2016
Version 1.0
- First Draft AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT01
- Posted on RPD list
05 Aug 2016
Version 2.0
- Second Draft AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT02
- Change on the policy’s name
- Addition of the Acknowledgement section
- Rephrasing of section 3.3.3
18 Nov 2016
Version 3.0
- Third Draft AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT03
- Update of section 3.3.3 from discussions on mailing list
- Update of section 3.7 (Acknowledgements) to thank the community for
discussions and contributions
11 Apr 2017
Version 4.0
- Fourth Draft AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT04
- Update and Rephrasing of section 3.4
- Update and Rephrasing of section 3.5
- Update and Rephrasingof section 3.6
21 Oct 2017
Version 5.0
Fifth Draft AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT05
Added Paragraph C to 13.3.3 in consultation with the AFRINIC legal counsel.
Rephrased Paragraph 13.5 to comply with AFRINIC staff assessment
Rephrased Paragraph 13.6 to avoid ambiguity.
Amended 13.4 (B) to provide for and align with transfer policies
Changed co-authors list.
Updated the Acknowledgement section.
####################################################################################

So please don't spoil the name of people contributing in the community.

Thanks

Arnaud

2018-06-06 9:45 GMT+00:00 Dabu Sifiso <dabu.sifiso at yandex.com>:

>
> I am afraid you are correct in questioning intentions:
> https://afrinic.net/en/community/policy-development/policy-proposals/2359-
> internet-number-resources-review-by-afrinic
>
> Mr.Aina is not one of the co-authors:
> - Amelina Arnaud
> - Jean-Baptiste Millogo
> - Marcus Adomey
>
> But Mr.Aina and some other people gets credited none the less by the
> co-authors:
> >"The authors thank Ms Wafa Dahmani Zaafouri (become Afrinic GC Chair), Mr
> Serge ILUNGA (become Afrinic Board member)  and Mr Alain P. Aina for their
> contributions in the development >of this Policy proposal.
>
>
> This policy proposal as in  AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT-06 contains the
> following:
> >B) If the situation cannot be rectified and the member did not transfer
> the ressources to meet other AFRINIC-approved needs as per adopted policies
>
> Force people to brokers and transfer away resources by policy design!
>
>
>
> 06.06.2018, 01:21, "Saul Stein" <saul at enetworks.co.za>:
> > I have been waiting for Alain to respond, but sadly he hasn’t.
> >
> > He has written and with a few colleagues, tried to bulldoze through a
> proposal and suggested another, ignoring all protests and objections while
> lambasting all and anyone who stood in his way . A policy that over the
> past number of years has cause and fractured this community immeasurably!
> >
> > There is a clear conflict of interest here.
> >
> > I therefor call for Alain to withdraw both his soft landing policy
> within 24hours. Should that not happen, I call on the chairs of this group,
> to use powers of common sense to reject this policy as a conflict of
> interest.
> >
> > I also call for Alains other proposal to be withdrawn, as it is clear
> that this is designed to obscure conflicts of interest.
> >
> > Mike, sadly the motivation here is the issue. In my view there is no
> credibility in anyone that berates and divides an organisation for
> self-interest as we have seen here. The proof is the website and LinkedIn,
> with no denial from Alain who if this wasn’t true has now had time to
> investigate.
> >
> > From: Mike Burns [mailto:mike at iptrading.com]
> > Sent: 06 June 2018 02:05 AM
> > To: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
> > Cc: AfriNIC RPD MList. <rpd at afrinic.net>
> > Subject: Re: [rpd] Questions for Alain...
> >
> > Hi Owen,
> >
> > Simply, no. His motivation doesn't change the credibility of his
> arguments. They stand on their own.
> >
> > There is no place and no need for this, especially with the subject
> line, how could it not be ad hominem?
> >
> > Attacking the motivation of a person is almost the definition of
> argumentum ad hominem.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > ---- On Tue, 05 Jun 2018 19:40:12 -0400 Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
> wrote ----
> >
> >> While I agree ad hominem has no place in policy debates, I think there
> is validity in this case to attacking the credibility of his arguments
> based on what is now a visible previously undisclosed conflict of interest.
> If he had merely proposed or advocated for the policy, it would be one
> thing, but his intransigent refusal to withdraw the policy despite repeated
> rejection by the community establishes a pattern of facts which invites
> scrutiny of his motivations and the credibility of his arguments in light
> of recent disclosures.
> >>
> >> Owen
> >>
> >>> On Jun 5, 2018, at 08:03 , Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Andrew,
> >>>
> >>> While I sympathize with your position on the soft landing proposals,
> and even accepting all the facts below are true, the fact remains that you
> were attacking the man (ad hominem) by impugning his motivations, not his
> arguments.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>> From: Andrew Alston [mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com]
> >>>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2018 10:37 AM
> >>>
> >>> To: Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com>; 'Owen DeLong' <owen at delong.com>;
> 'Chevalier du Borg' <virtual.borg at gmail.com>
> >>>
> >>> Cc: 'AfriNIC RPD MList.' <rpd at afrinic.net>
> >>>
> >>> Subject: RE: [rpd] Questions for Alain...
> >>>
> >>> Mike,
> >>>
> >>> Nothing ad-hominem about this –
> >>>
> >>> Fact – a policy was proposed that the community rejected
> >>>
> >>> Fact – the community asked for the policy to be withdrawn – multiple
> times
> >>>
> >>> Fact – Alain refused to withdraw and then denied that the community
> had demanded such – despite it being on video
> >>>
> >>> Fact – The policy was some how shoved through – and appealed
> >>>
> >>> Fact – the appeal was granted
> >>>
> >>> Fact – Alain then slammed the integrity of the appeal committee and
> accused them of malfeasance – again – that’s on video
> >>>
> >>> All of this – over a 3 period while railing against people who wanted
> IP space and doing everything in his power to ensure that people could not
> GET the space they needed by policy – while also holding a block of space
> for his employer that remains unannounced other than 25% of it announced by
> a commercial ASN – while pushing for an audit policy that anyone can
> clearly see was designed to target specific individuals – and I can name
> them.
> >>>
> >>> To then turn around and open a broker – while attempting to use policy
> to swing things like this with no declaration of interest – might be within
> the rules – but it is in my opinion – shockingly bad ethics and at the very
> least – shows a total lack of judgement
> >>>
> >>> Andrew
> >>>
> >>> From: Mike Burns [mailto:mike at iptrading.com]
> >>>
> >>> Sent: 05 June 2018 17:11
> >>>
> >>> To: 'Owen DeLong' <owen at delong.com>; 'Chevalier du Borg' <
> virtual.borg at gmail.com>
> >>>
> >>> Cc: 'AfriNIC RPD MList.' <rpd at afrinic.net>
> >>>
> >>> Subject: Re: [rpd] Questions for Alain...
> >>>
> >>> “There’s nothing wrong with being a broker” – Owen
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for that, Owen. 😉
> >>>
> >>> More to the point, there is nothing wrong with a broker authoring
> policy.
> >>>
> >>> I agree that it’s better to be open about being a broker when
> authoring policy.
> >>>
> >>> However this thread began entirely as an ad hominem.
> >>>
> >>> +1 to the previous poster who said it’s past time for Africa to get in
> sync with the rest of the world regarding the IPv4 market.
> >>>
> >>> From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen at delong.com]
> >>>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2018 9:14 AM
> >>>
> >>> To: Chevalier du Borg <virtual.borg at gmail.com>
> >>>
> >>> Cc: AfriNIC RPD MList. <rpd at afrinic.net>
> >>>
> >>> Subject: Re: [rpd] Questions for Alain...
> >>>
> >>> There’s nothing wrong with being a broker. However, the SL-BIS
> proposal is one which brokers stand to profit from.
> >>>
> >>> Your analogy of the doctor doesn’t apply because the doctor isn’t
> profiting from it when you stop smoking. Indeed, you’re improved health
> might actually cost him money.
> >>>
> >>> This would be more like having the doctor encourage your smoking and
> then discovering that he also owned a tobacco company.
> >>>
> >>> Not only is it bad medical advice, but turns out the doctor stands to
> profit from it if the community takes his bad advice.
> >>>
> >>> Owen
> >>>
> >>> On Jun 5, 2018, at 04:19, Chevalier du Borg <virtual.borg at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>> Dear M. Alson
> >>>>
> >>>> Is there a logic arguement in here somewhere?
> >>>>
> >>>> Ad-hominem is not logic
> >>>>
> >>>> After all, yourself have defended broker on this list saying there
> nothing wrong with it.
> >>>>
> >>>> The doctor advise to STOP smoking is still good advice for you, even
> if doctor hisself is a big smoker.
> >>>>
> >>>> Le mar. 5 juin 2018 à 14:31, Andrew Alston <
> Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> a écrit :
> >>>>> You have actively supported and fought for the new soft landing
> policy – to artificially restrict space to entities that need it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Now, I’d like to ask – as an author of the soft-landing-bis policy
> which you have STILL not withdrawn… aren’t you just a LITTLE bit conflicted
> in trying to create an artificial shortage and make it hard for people to
> get space – while starting and founding an IP broker in Africa?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Maybe now we understand the *true* motivations behind the soft
> landing bis policy….
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://ext-host.trstech.net/ipregistrar/trust_us.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Andrew
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>
> >>>>> RPD mailing list
> >>>>>
> >>>>> RPD at afrinic.net
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>> Borg le Chevalier
> >>>>
> >>>> ___________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>> "Common sense is what tells us the world is flat"
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>> RPD mailing list
> >>>>
> >>>> RPD at afrinic.net
> >>>>
> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
> >
> > ,
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > RPD mailing list
> > RPD at afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>
>
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