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[rpd] [Community-Discuss] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

Mark Elkins mje at
Wed May 10 09:49:59 UTC 2017

I downloaded the complete video  from RIPE and watched it a few times. I
was also watching live.

Its large - but if you can do, download it and watch it.'

Then again, when the Chairman of ICANN stands up and says that ICANN can

"Hi, my name is Steve Crocker, I am Chairman of ICANN and I'm here to
help you. (Regarding) take out of the root the affected ccTLD names" and
he then volunteered assistance from ICANN staff - also saying it would
take between two and five years to get to a decision whether to proceed
or not.

The current policy concept does not go that far - but to me - certainly
suggests that the idea of punitive actions against governments is worth
looking at.

I regard it like a nuclear bomb. When in the hands of sane people (RIR's
and ICANN), it is a threat - to persuade bad actors to have second
thoughts against cutting people off from access to the Internet. If
governments choose to cut people off from access to the Internet for
political reasons, to me this is undermining the core mission of ICANN
and the RIR's, both of whom have the potential power to do something in
return. We need to enable that power from being simply a potential to
being ready for use and hope its never needed to be used.

On 10/05/2017 11:01, Noah wrote:
> Mmmm on the contrary seems like most folk on the floor disagreed with
> the contraversial policy and its approach no matter how much the
> Arthors seek for better ways to improve it.
> Some suggested multistake holder engagement and in particular Leslie
> Daigle comments on the floor are worth taking into serious
> considerations by the way.

Leslie Daigle of ISOC agrees that there is a problem. She has concerns
but sounded to me more would like to see something. She just doesn't
want to see dialogue being undermined by this policy.

Perhaps talk is not enough?

> The best comment in my opinion was from the Alan Durand who reminded
> everyone what the real core mission of the RIR community is,  and that
> is....

I'd say he was more worried about the policy being used for much more
than it is currently intended for. (referenced to the colour of people's
hair as a reason to cut them off the Internet).

> "To allocate resources and maintain the accuracy of the
> database".PERIOD. [1]
> Noah
> [1]I have had in the past folk state statements like "How some ome
> runs his network is none of anyones business and in that matter
> policing the network is none of AFRINICs business" 
> On 10 May 2017 10:39 a.m., "Andrew Alston"
> <Andrew.Alston at
> <mailto:Andrew.Alston at>> wrote:
>     Thanks Marcus,
>     Just some feedback for the community.
>     It's been a great experience here at RIPE and some of the ideas
>     given and the extensive discussions following the presentation
>     referred to by Marcus have been both useful and informative.
>     Draft 2 will be submitted shortly very much in line with what I
>     presented in that presentation - and before the 7 day deadline as
>     per the PDP so we can discuss on that basis.
>     Following the meeting in Nairobi, I suspect we will then be
>     gathering still further input and further drafts will follow, if
>     there is no consensus found on the floor for the draft 2 that will
>     be submitted.
>     I think for myself, the most important thing I have seen at RIPE
>     so far, is the huge willingness by people from every walk of life
>     to engage in dialog and discussion over this, and it was
>     heartening to see both my own positions and the positions of those
>     I was discussing with shift as explanations were given and
>     questions were asked and answered.  Since giving that presentation
>     I have barely had a minute to think as people approached me to
>     talk this through - and I really hope to see such engagement in
>     Nairobi, because it truly showed the benefit of a multi
>     stakeholder approach where open dialog and communication can
>     happen, even in the absence of agreement and in the face of
>     controversial material where people hold strong and emotive views.
>     I look forward to the discussions on the floor of the PDP and
>     engaging with all of you to hear your thoughts and views and
>     finding the right solution to the issue.
>     Thanks
>     Andrew
>     Get Outlook for iOS <>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* Marcus K. G. Adomey <madomey at
>     <mailto:madomey at>>
>     *Sent:* Tuesday, May 9, 2017 11:48:42 PM
>     *To:* rpd at <mailto:rpd at>;
>     community-discuss at <mailto:community-discuss at>
>     *Subject:* [Community-Discuss] Controversial anti-shutdown policy
>     discussed at RIPE
>     Dear Colleagues.
>     You might want to see the presentation of the controversial draft
>     anti-shutdown policy (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01) at a recent
>     RIPE meeting.  I found the questions/comments from the RIPE
>     community similar to that shared by many on the RPD, mostly about
>     the inappropriateness of such policy in our region… or any other
>     for that matter.  Enjoy watching it.
>     <>  
>     <>
>     Archives – RIPE 74 <>
> <>
>     Thanks
>     Marcus
>     _______________________________________________
>     Community-Discuss mailing list
>     Community-Discuss at <mailto:Community-Discuss at>
>     <>
> _______________________________________________
> RPD mailing list
> RPD at

Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA:

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