[rpd] Policy Proposal Update - IPv4 Soft Landing-bis

Thu Aug 25 21:21:51 UTC 2016

I agree with Andrew here.

Shortchanging more people in order to keep IPv4 space in the free pool longer is not helping anyone.

While IPv4 may be necessary long after there is a free pool, this issue is being dealt with in other regions through
transfers and other mechanisms. Eventually it will be dealt with by virtue of the fact that IPv4 simply becomes too
expensive to maintain. That should have happened a long time a go and all of this shifting of costs through policies
aimed at creating the illusion of conservation has proven to do more harm than good every place it has been attempted.

If there is a justified need for the resources, then the RIR should distribute them accordingly. When there are no
more resources to distribute, the RIR should record appropriate transfers as the community sees fit to permit in policy.

Beyond that, the RIR has very little (no?) role in artificially extending the life of IPv4 by creating more shortages
for more people while a free pool continues to exist.

Owen

> On Aug 25, 2016, at 06:44 , Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
> 
> Omo,
>  
> Let us talk about what our IPv6 rollout ACTUALLY proved.
>  
> A.)   It can be done – there is nothing stopping people beyond hard work – it did not cost money, it cost time, effort and hard work
> B.)    There is no need for a policy to push IPv6 rollout – it can be done in the absence of policy if people actually have the desire to do it
> C.)    I am not saying that anyone should get preference – I am saying let the space be used on a first come, first serve basis and let those who actually have infrastructure to use it, use it TODAY, rather than leaving people without the ability to actually connect AFRICAN customers in AFRICA to their detriment because certain people aren’t ready to use the space that is available.
> D.)   I am saying that by holding back space from those who truly need it TODAY to connect customers TODAY is nothing more than selfish desire of those who see some distant undefined future in which they will need it, without any thought to the customers who will go unconnected because you have tied the hands of those who actually have the ability to rollout the space TODAY to their customers.
> E.)    I am saying you are playing a game of negative eugenics with IP space, with no empirical justification, no hard facts or figures to justify where your limitations come from, no real maths behind it, and a bunch of suppositions that are totally unfounded.
>  
> And yes, there is a need for me to VERY clearly state that I remain OPPOSED to this policy, since you chose to bring my name, and my work, into your baseless justifications
>  
> Andrew
>  
>  
> From: Omo Oaiya [mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net] 
> Sent: 25 August 2016 16:24
> To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
> Cc: Noah <noah at neo.co.tz>; rpd <rpd at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [rpd] Policy Proposal Update - IPv4 Soft Landing-bis
>  
> Andrew,
>  
> I obviously put too much value on your avowal of the basic principles behind the policy.  I formally acknowledge that you OPPOSE the policy.  You don’t have to restate.
>  
> I understand that the basis of your opposition is that large operators should have preference.   This is where we disagree.  If IPv4 is critical and IPv6 will not happen overnight as you said, we must have mechanisms in place for equitable distribution.  This is AFRINIC’s mandate.    
>  
> With regards to "successes of other people",  you confuse the discussions with your announcement as much as it is a lighthouse deployment.  Nevertheless, I am looking forward to the articles you are writing about it.  We can discuss successes when we have data to reflect on.  Time for me to let the co-chairs do their work.
>  
> Omo
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> On 25 Aug 2016, at 13:58, Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com <mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
>  
> Omo,
>  
> Let me also add this.
>  
> If you wish to use IPv6 rollouts as a means to justify your policy, which I remain opposed to.
>  
> How about, you go and DO an ipv6 rollout on scale, and then use your OWN experiences to justify your policy.  Rather than just talking about it and making baseless justifications using other peoples work?
>  
> Andrew
>  
>  
> From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com <mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>
> Date: Thursday, 25 August 2016 at 3:38 PM
> To: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net <mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>>, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz <mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>>
> Cc: rpd <rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>>
> Subject: Re: [rpd] Policy Proposal Update - IPv4 Soft Landing-bis
>  
> Omo,
>  
> I am sorry to say this – but please, do not take the success of one IPv6 rollout and the challenges it involves, performed by someone who OPPOSSES your policy, to justify its existence.
>  
> Let me be VERY clear here – I am opposed to this policy – for every single reason I stated so clearly in Gaborone, I remain opposed to this policy, and if anything, the IPv6 rollout done by Liquid Telecommunications highlights many of the very reasons I AM opposed to this policy.
>  
> Large operators still need space – and it is the large operators that are actively DOING something about rolling out IPv6, and it is these same people who this policy would directly damage through its unjustified limitations that are not grounded in ANY empirical evidence and justification presented so far.
>  
> I remain committed to the repealing of the current limitations of the current policy until someone can empirically justify the numbers and limitations in the current policy with evidence to backup where they came from, and what the motivations behind those specific figures are – beyond just pure hyperbole and speculation.
>  
> But please, once again, do not use my emails and the successes of other people to justify something that those same people are highly opposed to.
>  
> Andrew
>  
> From: Omo Oaiya [mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net <mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>] 
> Sent: 25 August 2016 13:44
> To: Noah <noah at neo.co.tz <mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>>
> Cc: rpd <rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>>
> Subject: Re: [rpd] Policy Proposal Update - IPv4 Soft Landing-bis
>  
> Dear All,
>  
> The recent discussions leading from the Liquid Telecoms IPv6 deployment have buttressed the reasoning and approach of this policy especially Andrew's frank e-mails which were very much appreciated.
>  
> I summarise his key points as
>  
> - rolling out v6 on a wide scale isn't all easy sailing and while we must encourage adoption, we need to find ways to surmount challenges and widespread adoption will take some time.
> - that IPv4 is critical, cannot be avoided and necessary to adopt IPv6
>  
> The authors have addressed the issues raised in Gaborone and barring any others, I believe it is time we concluded on this proposal and moved this on for ratification. 
>  
> Best wishes
> Omo
>  
> On 3 August 2016 at 20:15, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz <mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>> wrote:
> Hi Dewole,
>  
> Thank you so much for sharing. We shall go through and comment.
>  
> Noah
>  
> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 6:45 PM, Dewole Ajao <dewole at forum.org.ng <mailto:dewole at forum.org.ng>> wrote:
> Dear members,
> 
> This is to inform you that the above named policy proposal has been updated by the authors and the update published accordingly.
> 
> Details can be found at the following URL:
> 
> http://afrinic.net/en/community/policy-development/policy-proposals/1815-ipv4-soft-landing-bis <http://afrinic.net/en/community/policy-development/policy-proposals/1815-ipv4-soft-landing-bis>
> 
> ID: AFPUB-2016-V4-001-DRAFT03
> 
> Regards,
> 
> PDWG Co-Chairs
> 
> 
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> 
>  
> -- 
> ./noah
> 
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> 
> 
>  
> -- 
> Omo Oaiya
> CTO/Directeur Technique, WACREN 
> Mobile: +234 808 888 1571 <tel:%2B234%20808%20888%201571> , +221 784 305 224
> Skype: kodion
> http://www.wacren.net <http://www.wacren.net/>
>  
>  
> 
> —
> Omo Oaiya
> CTO/Directeur Technique, WACREN 
> Mobile: +234 806 4522778, +221 784 305 224
> Skype: kodion
> http://www.wacren.net <http://www.wacren.net/> 
> 
> 
>  
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