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[rpd] New Proposal - "Internet Number Resources Audit by AFRINIC (AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT01)
Owen DeLong
owen at delong.com
Fri May 27 16:35:58 UTC 2016
IPv4 is not dead, but it has been on life support for far too long and our continued use is merely prolonging the agony.
The longer it takes us to fully deploy IPv6, the more agony we will inflict not only upon our selves, but upon the entire internet.
Owen
> On May 27, 2016, at 08:53 , Honest Ornella GANKPA <honest1989 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Indeed
>
> Just to add to my earlier point, Ii noticed that AFRINIC distributed 99.87% of /8 ( 16,755,712 IPs) in 2015 and has distributed 38% of /8 (6,430,720 IPs) as for 24th May 2016. IPv4 is definitely not dead with such stats. I believe we can both encourage rapid adoption of IPv6 throughout Africa but at the same time protect what is already there. Because let's face it some people will still be behind times....
>
>
>
> This policy (just like the soft landing one) is just to ensure fair distribution in times of scarecity.
>
>
>
> I have one question however: on which basis an organization would be reported by another?
>
>
>
> Ornella
>
>
> 2016-05-26 20:19 GMT+01:00 GH.-GNONKOTO Serges PATRICK <gnonkoto.patrick at artci.ci <mailto:gnonkoto.patrick at artci.ci>>:
> I strongly desagree with Mark,
> In french...
> L'idée que les plongeurs aillent au fond de la mer ou en eaux profondes c'est qu'ils y trouvent du poisson. Aujourd'hui avec une telle politique, c'est d'avoir constamment du poisson à cet endroit et que ces poissons appartiennent à cette mer-là. Sinon on ferait des piscines pour ces poissons.
> Comprenons une chose : on a besoin des ressources, alors on en crée des besoins par translations des besoins existants : IXP, NIC
> Une telle proposition fait une médiane alors elle respecte les normes et l’équité. Pourquoi vendanger ce qui nous fait: notre identité ?
>
> Voilà pourquoi il faut soutenir cette proposition.
>
> Patrick.
>
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : rpd-request at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd-request at afrinic.net> [mailto:rpd-request at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd-request at afrinic.net>]
> Envoyé : lundi 23 mai 2016 10:17
> À : rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>
> Objet : RPD Digest, Vol 116, Issue 50
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: New Proposal - "Internet Number Resources Audit by
> AFRINIC (AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT01)" (Mark Elkins)
> 2. Re: New Proposal - "Internet Number Resources Audit by
> AFRINIC (AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT01)" (Christopher Mwangi)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 11:26:40 +0200
> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>>
> To: rpd <rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>>
> Subject:
> Message-ID: <5742CCD0.8050003 at posix.co.za <mailto:5742CCD0.8050003 at posix.co.za>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I also agree with Tim (and Saul).
>
> Firstly, AFRINIC works on a slow start principal, the first allocation/assignment is usually small - so there would be little wastage due to non-growth.
>
> After that, any new application requires a check on previous applications - that the ISP has reached a certain percentage of utilisation. I'm aware that when Andrew at Liquid Telecom asked for more space the Hostmaster folk at AFRINIC really made him work hard, jumping through loops. I have full trust in the AFRINIC staff. ;-)
>
> If someone stops paying, resources are reclaimed - which satisfies me with what happens when a Member goes out of business.
>
> I'm not aware that any other RIR has a similar policy - not that we should not be able to come up with original ideas in our Region - but this does suggest that its probably not a good idea. They have already run dry, so would have been able to look at this possibility before now.
>
> The thought that occurs to me is one of re-arranging the deckchairs with the IPv4 ship already resting on the sea floor. Fun for SCUBA Divers - but that's about it.
>
> I'd rather hear that ISP's have deployed IPv6, at least on all externally facing services including all DNS, E-Mail and WEB Services.
>
> I do not believe that anyone who has not yet deployed IPv6 as per above can morally support this proposal - they have not done their bit.
> And if they have, they will realise that this policy adds very little value.
>
> I do not support this Policy.
>
>
> On 23/05/2016 10:45, Saul Stein wrote:
> > I agree with McTim.
> > If the member is in breach of the RSA, then membership criteria should
> > deal with that.
> > If a member applies and received resources, there are conditions
> > attached and need to be adhered to and the terms and conditions of the
> > agreement should deal with any breached. IF and only if that process
> > is broken, should we look at fixing it, but not by putting other
> > processes in place to fix other issues!
> >
> > Is there perhaps an real example of an issue that needs to be solved here?
> >
> > Regards
> > Saul
> >
> > On 22 May 2016, at 18:06, McTim <dogwallah at gmail.com <mailto:dogwallah at gmail.com>
> > <mailto:dogwallah at gmail.com <mailto:dogwallah at gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >
> >> All,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 3:53 AM, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com <mailto:seun.ojedeji at gmail.com>
> >> <mailto:seun.ojedeji at gmail.com <mailto:seun.ojedeji at gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Section 4 of the Registration Service Agreement (RSA) provides the
> >> framework for investigations of the usage of allocated Internet
> >> Number resources, defines members? obligation to cooperate and the
> >> measures to be taken by AFRINIC in case of failure to comply.
> >>
> >>
> >> If the above is the case, why is this policy needed?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The lack of such investigation or regular control can lead to
> >> inefficient usage of the Internet Number resources, to stockpiling
> >> and other types of abuse.
> >>
> >>
> >> Is there any evidence to support this statement??
> >>
> >>
> >> I tend to agree with Mr. Alston, it seems to me to be "impractical".
> >>
> >> It would impose significant costs on the organisation to an end which
> >> is already at our disposal.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> McTim
> >> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
> >> route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> RPD mailing list
> >> RPD at afrinic.net <mailto:RPD at afrinic.net> <mailto:RPD at afrinic.net <mailto:RPD at afrinic.net>>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > RPD mailing list
> > RPD at afrinic.net <mailto:RPD at afrinic.net>
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd>
> >
>
> --
> Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za> Tel: +27.128070590 <tel:%2B27.128070590> Cell: +27.826010496 <tel:%2B27.826010496>
> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za <https://ftth.posix.co.za/>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 10:16:02 +0000
> From: Christopher Mwangi <christopher.mwangi at liquidtelecom.com <mailto:christopher.mwangi at liquidtelecom.com>>
> To: "mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>" <mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>>, rpd <rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>>
> Subject: Re: [rpd] New Proposal - "Internet Number Resources Audit by
> AFRINIC (AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT01)"
> Message-ID:
> <VI1PR03MB111831D9E9C4F2780FDAC49B824E0 at VI1PR03MB1118.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com <mailto:VI1PR03MB111831D9E9C4F2780FDAC49B824E0 at VI1PR03MB1118.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I agree with Mark Elkins,
>
>
>
> Are the current resource issuance and reclaim procedures and controls effective ? Is there justifiable proof of wastage?
>
>
>
> Besides being open to abuse , the overhead, complexity , time, ?intrusion on customers networks? , and the benchmark of its effectiveness are valid concerns that should not be taken lightly .
>
>
>
> Despite shelfing the real issue - ipv6 , such a policy has far reaching ramifications.
>
>
>
> And for this , I do not support the policy ,
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Christopher
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Elkins [mailto:mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>]
> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 12:27 PM
> To: rpd
> Subject: Re: [rpd] New Proposal - "Internet Number Resources Audit by AFRINIC (AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT01)"
>
>
>
> I also agree with Tim (and Saul).
>
>
>
> Firstly, AFRINIC works on a slow start principal, the first allocation/assignment is usually small - so there would be little wastage due to non-growth.
>
>
>
> After that, any new application requires a check on previous applications - that the ISP has reached a certain percentage of utilisation. I'm aware that when Andrew at Liquid Telecom asked for more space the Hostmaster folk at AFRINIC really made him work hard, jumping through loops. I have full trust in the AFRINIC staff. ;-)
>
>
>
> If someone stops paying, resources are reclaimed - which satisfies me with what happens when a Member goes out of business.
>
>
>
> I'm not aware that any other RIR has a similar policy - not that we should not be able to come up with original ideas in our Region - but this does suggest that its probably not a good idea. They have already run dry, so would have been able to look at this possibility before now.
>
>
>
> The thought that occurs to me is one of re-arranging the deckchairs with the IPv4 ship already resting on the sea floor. Fun for SCUBA Divers - but that's about it.
>
>
>
> I'd rather hear that ISP's have deployed IPv6, at least on all externally facing services including all DNS, E-Mail and WEB Services.
>
>
>
> I do not believe that anyone who has not yet deployed IPv6 as per above can morally support this proposal - they have not done their bit.
>
> And if they have, they will realise that this policy adds very little value.
>
>
>
> I do not support this Policy.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 23/05/2016 10:45, Saul Stein wrote:
>
> > I agree with McTim.
>
> > If the member is in breach of the RSA, then membership criteria should
>
> > deal with that.
>
> > If a member applies and received resources, there are conditions
>
> > attached and need to be adhered to and the terms and conditions of the
>
> > agreement should deal with any breached. IF and only if that process
>
> > is broken, should we look at fixing it, but not by putting other
>
> > processes in place to fix other issues!
>
> >
>
> > Is there perhaps an real example of an issue that needs to be solved here?
>
> >
>
> > Regards
>
> > Saul
>
> >
>
> > On 22 May 2016, at 18:06, McTim <dogwallah at gmail.com <mailto:dogwallah at gmail.com>
>
> > <mailto:dogwallah at gmail.com <mailto:dogwallah at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >> All,
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 3:53 AM, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com <mailto:seun.ojedeji at gmail.com>
>
> >> <mailto:seun.ojedeji at gmail.com <mailto:seun.ojedeji at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >> <snip>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Section 4 of the Registration Service Agreement (RSA) provides
> >> the
>
> >> framework for investigations of the usage of allocated Internet
>
> >> Number resources, defines members? obligation to cooperate and
> >> the
>
> >> measures to be taken by AFRINIC in case of failure to comply.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> If the above is the case, why is this policy needed?
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> The lack of such investigation or regular control can lead to
>
> >> inefficient usage of the Internet Number resources, to
> >> stockpiling
>
> >> and other types of abuse.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Is there any evidence to support this statement??
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> I tend to agree with Mr. Alston, it seems to me to be "impractical".
>
> >>
>
> >> It would impose significant costs on the organisation to an end which
>
> >> is already at our disposal.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> --
>
> >> Cheers,
>
> >>
>
> >> McTim
>
> >> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
>
> >> route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
>
> >> _______________________________________________
>
> >> RPD mailing list
>
> >> RPD at afrinic.net <mailto:RPD at afrinic.net><mailto:RPD at afrinic.net <mailto:RPD at afrinic.net>> <mailto:RPD at afrinic.net <mailto:RPD at afrinic.net>>
>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > RPD mailing list
>
> > RPD at afrinic.net <mailto:RPD at afrinic.net><mailto:RPD at afrinic.net <mailto:RPD at afrinic.net>>
>
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd>
>
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>
> mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za><mailto:mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>> Tel: +27.128070590 <tel:%2B27.128070590> Cell: +27.826010496 <tel:%2B27.826010496>
>
> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za <https://ftth.posix.co.za/>
>
>
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