[members-discuss] [rpd] Privacy breach of nomcom2015's Mailing.List

Thu Jun 11 21:56:13 UTC 2015

@Bill
English:

In my humble opinion, we need a minimum of security for people to trust the
voting system and avoid disputes and especially prove the non-repudiation.
I think people should prepare to use the system well in advance to avoid
running at the last moment.

Français:

A mon humble avis, Nous avons besoin d'un minimum de sécurité pour que les
gens fassent confiance au système de vote et d'éviter les contestations et
surtout prouver la non-répudiation. Je pense que les gens devraient se
préparer à utiliser le système longtemps à l'avance afin d'éviter de courir
au dernier moment.
Le 9 juin 2015 11:03, "Bill Woodcock" <woody at pch.net> a écrit :

> Indeed it would be. Just a question of how much security one wants, and
> how much one wants the security to be dependent upon AfriNIC maintaining a
> password-store.  But yes, what you suggest is the simplest solution, and
> what the other RIRs do, to the best of my knowledge.
>
>
>                 -Bill
>
>
> On Jun 9, 2015, at 12:36, Jackson Muthili <jacksonmuthi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Wouldn't it be simpler to just log in and cast the vote without pgp and
> pki?
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 9, 2015, Bill Woodcock <woody at pch.net> wrote:
>
>> Wouldn't it be simpler to just PGP-sign the vote, and skip all the
>> document-checking?
>>
>>
>>                 -Bill
>>
>>
>> On Jun 9, 2015, at 09:32, Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Hi Ismail,
>>
>>
>>
>> There are various reasons I can see, and I’m sure more than I haven’t yet
>> seen.
>>
>>
>>
>> One of the things that has been brought to my attention with regards to
>> remote electronic voting is that many people are hesitant to provide
>> identification documents to AfriNIC that are stored by AfriNIC due to
>> security reasons.  (Current process says that you have to send a copy of an
>> ID document to AfriNIC to get a BPKI certificate that is used to vote).
>> I’ve had some discussions in this regard with various people and will be
>> putting forward a proposal or two for consideration to see if we can
>> perhaps resolve this.  It’s my personal view that there is no need for such
>> documents to be stored by AfriNIC so long as they are verified and
>> validated.  One of the things that was pointed out for example, is that in
>> certain countries you can take your ID document to a bank, they verify its
>> real, and they provide you a letter saying they have seen it, they have
>> verified it, it is real, and you use that letter rather than actually
>> disclosing the ID document (I believe that was in Germany but am open to
>> correction).
>>
>>
>>
>> Perhaps we could look at a similar approach, not necessarily with banks,
>> but with other members in good standing that are trusted being used to
>> verify such documents.
>>
>>
>>
>> Furthermore, I know of some fairly large registration drives that will be
>> happening in the next few months conducted by various members of the
>> community at various meetings, where time has been set aside specifically
>> to assist people in getting registered so that come the next election they
>> can cast their votes.  That being said, we may need to resolve the first
>> issue I raised before hand.
>>
>>
>>
>> With regards to the discussions online, that’s a complicated issue.  I
>> argue that many of our members probably don’t understand the criticality of
>> AfriNIC, the powers they as members hold, or the consequences of AfriNIC
>> going wrong.  This is an education issue that needs to be solved.
>>
>>
>>
>> The question here is, does this education issue need to be resolved from
>> an AfriNIC perspective, or does this need to come from active members of
>> the community?  I would argue the latter, but it is subject to a debate.
>>
>>
>>
>> Irrespective of who does the educating though, I believe the community
>> needs to better understand the following aspects (and potentially others)
>>
>>
>>
>> a.)    What are the contents of the current bylaws, and what rights AND
>> obligations do they bestow on members
>>
>> b.)    What rights and obligations does the member services agreement
>> bestow on members
>>
>> c.)     If members are unhappy with the status-quo, what are the ways
>> they can address these issues, how can THEY create change.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, we talk of committees, and they have their place and are useful, but
>> be that as it may, it can be argued that members need to know they
>> themselves are empowered to propose the changes they feel are necessary and
>> should be encouraged to do so.  That is what a membership organization is
>> about, letting the members speak and be heard, irrespective of if we agree
>> with what is being said or not.
>>
>>
>>
>> To finish these thoughts, I’d like to quote Margaret Mead…
>>
>>
>>
>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can
>> change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”
>>
>>
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> (Written entirely in my own personal capacity)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* ismailmss at gmail.com [mailto:ismailmss at gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Ismail
>> M. Settenda
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 9, 2015 10:01 AM
>> *To:* Seun Ojedeji
>> *Cc:* Andrew Alston; Mwendwa Kivuva; rpd
>> *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] [rpd] Privacy breach of nomcom2015's
>> Mailing List
>>
>>
>>
>> @Andrew, in adding to Seun's comments I agree with your observations
>> ..however I am thinking that though an idea is valid and right lets not
>> force the issue if understanding has not been achieved especially if as you
>> say it is for the community.... and as Seun has pointed out there is some
>> progress (not as fast as it should be but some progress nevertheless).
>>
>> I am wondering if you could do something different this time round to get
>> the on-line discussions improving by initiating some program whose goal is
>> to enable people participate more before we get to the AGMM but by first
>> identifying and understanding the reasons why they are quiet. , cause
>> people keep silent for various reasons: some don't want to add more to the
>> noise, some don't know it is their mandate to say something, some don't
>> believe it the right forum for change....e.t.c....e.t.c
>>
>> This way between now and the next AGMM you have some pointers for you to
>> analyze on why on-line participation is low and then model some mechanisms
>> to correct this. These the board could then take into consideration and
>> catalyze and steer the discussion at the AGMM to a more representative and
>> unified conclusion.
>>
>> I believe the best time we have for this organization and to pay
>> attention to the issues is when we are away from home and away from our
>> daily lives so lets maximize on that but we should not then make it the
>> only time we are willing to spare for the organization that provides us
>> resources that are critical to our businesses.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>    --
>> Ismail
>>
>> TISPA
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9 June 2015 at 08:26, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I agree with you Andrew; discussions should not wait till face 2 face and
>> we should discuss them as much as possible on the list.
>> I think that is happening and improving as far as policy is concerned.
>>
>> Resolution discussion on the other hand is not something that people are
>> used to discussing on the list (especially on members list) as they don't
>> come often.
>>
>> That said, I think substantive discussion on the various list will
>> continue to improve as the organisation leadership continue to act
>> transparently and communicate with the community on status of things. The
>> more we get clear view of things, the more likely that our content will be
>> based more on substance and facts.
>>
>> Regards
>> sent from Google nexus 4
>> kindly excuse brevity and typos.
>>
>> On 9 Jun 2015 05:54, "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>    Hi All,
>>
>>
>>
>> While I have largely chosen to stay silent in this debate, because I
>> believe many of these issues were already resolved at the AGMM, there is
>> one thing I would like to comment on.
>>
>>
>>
>> *This has become quite normal. Somebody at the floor of the AGM called
>> the entire Afrinic community "a community of mutings" or something like it.
>> And he did it full of arrogance and sense of importance.*
>>
>> Let me take a second to clarify what I actually said here.
>>
>> Far to often when something is brought to the floor of a meeting, people
>> want to either complain that it hasn’t been discussed first or that they
>> have never seen it.  The reality is, most issues that land on the floor of
>> either the PDP or the AGMM have in some form or another been on these
>> lists.  The comment made here was in reference to the special resolutions
>> that I put on the floor, and the people on the floor who stated that the
>> community had not discussed them or provided input to them.  This was
>> inaccurate, since the special resolutions had been placed on the members
>> list on the 20th of May 2015, and the community had chosen not to respond
>> to them or discuss them.  I referred to that as “mute mode”, and never said
>> “a community of mutings”.
>>
>>
>>
>> If we choose to stay silent on the lists and only respond when things
>> eventually hit the floor of the meeting room, I argue that we have done the
>> community a huge disservice and we should castigate ourselves for that,
>> rather than complaining we had no chance to comment.  Why do I say this?
>> Because the reality is that on the floor we have fairly low representation,
>> and in fact in terms of members, less than 10% of members were represented
>> on the members side of the room in the AGMM.  By choosing to only discuss
>> and debate (and indeed object) to things only in the room, we
>> disenfranchise the rest of the member base, and deny them our opinions and
>> their chance to agree or rebut.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is not the first time this issue has come up either.  As I pointed
>> out then, it took an *incredibly* controversial policy going to the
>> floor of the PDP in Tanzania to really engender debate, and in the weeks
>> prior to that policy going to the floor, the community had almost nothing
>> to say on the mailing lists, yet when it came to the floor, there was a
>> longer queue at the microphone than anything I have ever seen before or
>> since.
>>
>>
>>
>> We need to decide, is the only time we have for this organisation and to
>> pay attention to the issues when we are away from home and away from our
>> daily lives?  Is that the only time we are willing to spare for the
>> organisation that provides us resources that are critical to our
>> businesses?  I would hope we are more dedicated than that.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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