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[rpd] New proposal - "Out-Of-Region Use of AFRINIC Internet Number Resources" (AFPUB-2014-GEN-002-DRAFT-01)

Seun Ojedeji seun.ojedeji at
Thu Jul 10 20:49:14 UTC 2014

Hello Andrew, all

Perhaps Andrew has provided a typical scenario/data to work with. There are
a few things that seem to be in contention and I will attempt to give a
brief PERSONAL opinion:

- Difficult to monitor defaulter of outside region vs inside region usage:
I think we may be viewing the policy from the operation side alone. We
should also look at it from the execution side.[1] In passing a law of
death sentence for anyone who steal, how to catch the thief OR the
difficulty in catching a thief is not important than the fact that there is
a law to apply to anyone caught. So perhaps discussing whether the sentence
should be death is more helpful.

- Limiting may restrict expansion: There is already existing process
indicating that to get resource from AfriNIC region you need to have a
company registered in the region. Inview of that, the understanding below
may be valid about the intent of the legitimate org:

1. Such organisation registered to setup (one way or the other) and operate
it's infrastructure within the region
2. That the infrastructure setup could be servicing either in region OR
both in-region and out-region (no out-region only)

If we agree with the points above then we perhaps agree that some level of
in-region service is required by any organisation. The point however is how
much in-region is expected and this is where Andrew's raw data comes in
handy. His company at the moment has a ratio of say 5:1, the question we
then need to answer is if such organisation maintains it's ratio of 5
in-region but increases it's ratio of 1out-region to say 10 would we still
say AFRINIC as a regional RIR is servicing it's region?

1. Reading that sentence again and I am wondering whether the difference
between operating and executing is obvious. I hope you put it in context of
the stealing law scenario. ;)

sent from Google nexus 4
kindly excuse brevity and typos.
On 10 Jul 2014 20:28, "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at>

> Hi Bill,
> Except for the fact that there are massive African organisations that are
> expanding both inwards and outwards.
> I use Liquid (my employer as an example).
> We operate the largest cross border fiber network in Africa, and operate
> our own infrastructure in:
> Zimbabwe
> Zambia
> Uganda
> Rwanda
> Tanzania
> Burundi
> Botswana
> South Africa
> Kenya
> And are expanding all the time.  That being said, we also operate points
> of presence in London and the UAE, and are growing both inwards and
> outwards.  I cannot get space from RIPE, I cannot get space from APNIC, so
> pray tell, how is the organisation meant to grow if we cannot use
> legitimately applied for AfriNIC space off continent as we continue to
> grow a massive multi-national network?
> And for the record, everything we do is IPv6 enabled all the way to the
> edge - so we make sure we¹re doing our part there as well!
> Andrew
> On 7/10/14, 7:47 PM, "Bill Woodcock" <woody at> wrote:
> >
> >On Jul 10, 2014, at 9:19 AM, Nishal Goburdhan <ndg at> wrote:
> >> RIRs allocate resources to _organisations_ in their region.
> >> if i look at some of the prefixes that i see at african exchange
> >>points, i see a fair chunk of "international" space.  good for them, i
> >>say.
> >
> >Well, not reallyŠ  We have an area of policy inconsistency between RIRs
> >here, and I think it¹s going to cause a problem.
> >
> >Looking at ARIN policy, ARIN allocates space for use in the ARIN region.
> >If you take ARIN-allocated space and use it out-of-region, you can¹t use
> >it in a justification for more space.  That effectively means that using
> >it out-of-region means you¹re cutting yourself off from further
> >allocations, which effectively precludes doing it in any meaningful
> >volume.
> >
> >What I believe I¹m hearing about AfriNIC policy is that it allocates
> >space to organizations that are incorporated in Africa, but not to
> >networks that operate in Africa.  That leaves a gap in policy, that fails
> >to address the needs of networks that operate in Africa.  That in turn
> >disincentivizes deployment in Africa.  If I can¹t get addresses from
> >other RIRs to deploy in Africa, and I can¹t get addresses from AfriNIC to
> >deploy in Africa, how do I deploy in Africa, other than by giving up my
> >ability to request more addresses in a different region, which isn¹t
> >sustainable either?
> >
> >Yes, all this becomes somewhat moot in an IPv6-only future
> >economy-of-plenty, but that¹s a ways out, yet.
> >
> >                                -Bill
> >
> >
> >
> >
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