<p dir="ltr">Hello Andrew, all</p>
<p dir="ltr">Perhaps Andrew has provided a typical scenario/data to work with. There are a few things that seem to be in contention and I will attempt to give a brief PERSONAL opinion:</p>
<p dir="ltr">- Difficult to monitor defaulter of outside region vs inside region usage: I think we may be viewing the policy from the operation side alone. We should also look at it from the execution side.[1] In passing a law of death sentence for anyone who steal, how to catch the thief OR the difficulty in catching a thief is not important than the fact that there is a law to apply to anyone caught. So perhaps discussing whether the sentence should be death is more helpful.</p>
<p dir="ltr">- Limiting may restrict expansion: There is already existing process indicating that to get resource from AfriNIC region you need to have a company registered in the region. Inview of that, the understanding below may be valid about the intent of the legitimate org:</p>
<p dir="ltr">1. Such organisation registered to setup (one way or the other) and operate it's infrastructure within the region<br>
2. That the infrastructure setup could be servicing either in region OR both in-region and out-region (no out-region only)</p>
<p dir="ltr">If we agree with the points above then we perhaps agree that some level of in-region service is required by any organisation. The point however is how much in-region is expected and this is where Andrew's raw data comes in handy. His company at the moment has a ratio of say 5:1, the question we then need to answer is if such organisation maintains it's ratio of 5 in-region but increases it's ratio of 1out-region to say 10 would we still say AFRINIC as a regional RIR is servicing it's region?</p>
<p dir="ltr">Regards<br>
1. Reading that sentence again and I am wondering whether the difference between operating and executing is obvious. I hope you put it in context of the stealing law scenario. ;)</p>
<p dir="ltr">sent from Google nexus 4<br>
kindly excuse brevity and typos.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 10 Jul 2014 20:28, "Andrew Alston" <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi Bill,<br>
<br>
Except for the fact that there are massive African organisations that are<br>
expanding both inwards and outwards.<br>
<br>
I use Liquid (my employer as an example).<br>
<br>
We operate the largest cross border fiber network in Africa, and operate<br>
our own infrastructure in:<br>
<br>
Zimbabwe<br>
Zambia<br>
Uganda<br>
Rwanda<br>
Tanzania<br>
Burundi<br>
Botswana<br>
South Africa<br>
Kenya<br>
<br>
And are expanding all the time. That being said, we also operate points<br>
of presence in London and the UAE, and are growing both inwards and<br>
outwards. I cannot get space from RIPE, I cannot get space from APNIC, so<br>
pray tell, how is the organisation meant to grow if we cannot use<br>
legitimately applied for AfriNIC space off continent as we continue to<br>
grow a massive multi-national network?<br>
<br>
And for the record, everything we do is IPv6 enabled all the way to the<br>
edge - so we make sure we¹re doing our part there as well!<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 7/10/14, 7:47 PM, "Bill Woodcock" <<a href="mailto:woody@pch.net">woody@pch.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
><br>
>On Jul 10, 2014, at 9:19 AM, Nishal Goburdhan <<a href="mailto:ndg@ieee.org">ndg@ieee.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>> RIRs allocate resources to _organisations_ in their region.<br>
>> if i look at some of the prefixes that i see at african exchange<br>
>>points, i see a fair chunk of "international" space. good for them, i<br>
>>say.<br>
><br>
>Well, not reallyŠ We have an area of policy inconsistency between RIRs<br>
>here, and I think it¹s going to cause a problem.<br>
><br>
>Looking at ARIN policy, ARIN allocates space for use in the ARIN region.<br>
>If you take ARIN-allocated space and use it out-of-region, you can¹t use<br>
>it in a justification for more space. That effectively means that using<br>
>it out-of-region means you¹re cutting yourself off from further<br>
>allocations, which effectively precludes doing it in any meaningful<br>
>volume.<br>
><br>
>What I believe I¹m hearing about AfriNIC policy is that it allocates<br>
>space to organizations that are incorporated in Africa, but not to<br>
>networks that operate in Africa. That leaves a gap in policy, that fails<br>
>to address the needs of networks that operate in Africa. That in turn<br>
>disincentivizes deployment in Africa. If I can¹t get addresses from<br>
>other RIRs to deploy in Africa, and I can¹t get addresses from AfriNIC to<br>
>deploy in Africa, how do I deploy in Africa, other than by giving up my<br>
>ability to request more addresses in a different region, which isn¹t<br>
>sustainable either?<br>
><br>
>Yes, all this becomes somewhat moot in an IPv6-only future<br>
>economy-of-plenty, but that¹s a ways out, yet.<br>
><br>
> -Bill<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
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