[AFRINIC-rpd] AFRINIC Response to Government Calls for an Arab RIR

[Adiel Akplogan]

Hello Jackson and all,

On 2013-02-28, at 14:50 PM, Jackson Muthili <jacksonmuthi at gmail.com> wrote:
> You write
> 
>> Form a new RIR, and with AfriNIC's current burn rate, it is ENTIRELY
>> possible that IANA could be lobbied to take space from AfriNIC and give it
>> to the new RIR considering our burn rates.
> 
> This is possible?? Someone at IAINA can explain how?

On this particular aspect, let me maybe give some clarifications:

a) There is no policy that allow IANA to claim space back to be 
redistributed in any way beside a voluntary return. 

b) Further to the above, if you look at 

http://www.afrinic.net/en/services/statistics/ipv4-exhaustion

you will notice that the only full and untouched /8 that AFRINIC has 
is 102/8. The management of that prefix is however already defined 
by the Soft Landing policy as last /8. Beside that, AFRINIC has no 
other full /8 to possibly handover. Most of the other free spaces we
have are from the currently used 105/8 and fragments from from 
inherited legacy 196/8 and 154/8.

Thanks.

- a.

> On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Andrew Alston
> <alston.networks at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> I've been watching this whole debate with some interest and reversing my
>> comments while I got to grips with it, and without commenting further, I
>> want to put forward a hypothesis.
>> 
>> I state that this is merely supposition but I'd be curious to hear thoughts
>> on it.
>> 
>> So, why create an Arabic RIR... let's stop and question what COULD be
>> motivations
>> 
>> Yes, you could argue language and culture... but realistically?  Ripe
>> represents how many countries with how many diverse languages and cultures,
>> and it works, same with AfriNIC, same with LACNIC, same with APAN.  So, not
>> sure I really buy this.
>> IPv6, well, there is enough IPv6 to go around, so, get it from an Arabic RIR
>> or from one of the current ones, no big deal there.
>> 
>> However... and here is the kicker... IPv4...
>> 
>> Fact, Africa still has loads of IPv4 space, and burn rates which are
>> predicted to end it in something like 7 years.
>> Fact, RIPE has run out of space, there is no more.
>> Fact, a LOT of the Arabic countries still fall under RIPE, and can't get
>> space.
>> 
>> Form a new RIR, and with AfriNIC's current burn rate, it is ENTIRELY
>> possible that IANA could be lobbied to take space from AfriNIC and give it
>> to the new RIR considering our burn rates.  What does this mean?  Suddenly a
>> bunch of countries who currently cannot get space have access to resources.
>> Forget the North African countries, I'm talking about the ones currently in
>> the RIPE region.  Which means, we will see an outflow of space meant for
>> Africa into places that aren't African.
>> 
>> I said in 2010 in Tanzania, the world would come for the African IP space if
>> we didn't use it... my take on this... and as I said, its suspicion without
>> proof, here is the latest attempt, and this is one is actually pretty
>> clever.  While hijack space when you take it this way?  It amounts to the
>> same as forming fake African entities and taking the space off continent in
>> that way.
>> 
>> Smart... but no thanks...
>> 
>> Andrew
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rpd-bounces at afrinic.net [mailto:rpd-bounces at afrinic.net] On Behalf Of
>> Owen DeLong
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 11:18 PM
>> To: David Conrad
>> Cc: rpd at afrinic.net
>> Subject: Re: [AFRINIC-rpd] AFRINIC Response to Government Calls for an Arab
>> RIR
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 27, 2013, at 11:48 AM, David Conrad <drc at virtualized.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Feb 27, 2013, at 10:27 AM, SM <sm at resistor.net> wrote:
>>>> At 09:15 27-02-2013, Stephen Wilcox wrote:
>>>>> Its not really important - my point was that current RIRs exist around
>> natural geographic areas rather than artificially defined political or
>> linguistic areas that may not be contiguous.
>>>> 
>>>> The "natural geographic areas" is debatable.
>>> 
>>> Not really even debatable. There's been a bit of rationalization over the
>> years (e.g., many of the former French colonies in the AP region and the
>> Caribbean used to go to RIPE but I gather that's changed) but you still have
>> non-intuitive situations like countries clearly in Asia (e.g., the 'Stans')
>> going to RIPE or all of North America below the US not being part of ARIN.
>> The reason for this is the boundaries of the RIRs have always tended to be
>> defined by political/linguistic/cultural boundaries as opposed to purely
>> natural geographic ones.
>>> 
>> 
>> However, I think it is worth noting that it makes sense to do so. Mexico has
>> much stronger economic, social, cultural, and as a result network ties with
>> the rest of the LACNIC region than with the US. LACNIC meetings are
>> conducted in Spanish (for the most part) with simultaneous translation into
>> English and (IIRC) Portuguese. ARIN meetings are conducted in English. Were
>> Mexico part of the ARIN region, they would probably be somewhat less
>> represented and would face a number of challenges (visas to attend meetings
>> not being the least of them).
>> 
>>>> The only information which has been provided is:
>>>> 
>>>> "The matter has been raised and promoted by representatives of
>>>> certain  governments in the Arab community."
>>> 
>>> So it isn't even ISPs that are requesting this? I have even more
>>> skepticism that sufficient consensus will be reached.
>> 
>> Exactly.
>> 
>> Owen
>> 
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