[AFRINIC-rpd] AFRINIC Response to Government Calls for an Arab RIR

[Andrew Alston]

Hi All,

Let me reiterate, I did not say in any way that this would happen.  I do
however believe that it could be a possible (if misguided motivation).

Andrew


-----Original Message-----
From: rpd-bounces at afrinic.net [mailto:rpd-bounces at afrinic.net] On Behalf Of
Adiel Akplogan
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 2:11 PM
To: rpd at afrinic.net List
Subject: Re: [AFRINIC-rpd] AFRINIC Response to Government Calls for an Arab
RIR

Hello Jackson and all,

On 2013-02-28, at 14:50 PM, Jackson Muthili <jacksonmuthi at gmail.com> wrote:
> You write
> 
>> Form a new RIR, and with AfriNIC's current burn rate, it is ENTIRELY 
>> possible that IANA could be lobbied to take space from AfriNIC and 
>> give it to the new RIR considering our burn rates.
> 
> This is possible?? Someone at IAINA can explain how?

On this particular aspect, let me maybe give some clarifications:

a) There is no policy that allow IANA to claim space back to be
redistributed in any way beside a voluntary return. 

b) Further to the above, if you look at 

http://www.afrinic.net/en/services/statistics/ipv4-exhaustion

you will notice that the only full and untouched /8 that AFRINIC has is
102/8. The management of that prefix is however already defined by the Soft
Landing policy as last /8. Beside that, AFRINIC has no other full /8 to
possibly handover. Most of the other free spaces we have are from the
currently used 105/8 and fragments from from inherited legacy 196/8 and
154/8.

Thanks.

- a.

> On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Andrew Alston 
> <alston.networks at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> I've been watching this whole debate with some interest and reversing 
>> my comments while I got to grips with it, and without commenting 
>> further, I want to put forward a hypothesis.
>> 
>> I state that this is merely supposition but I'd be curious to hear 
>> thoughts on it.
>> 
>> So, why create an Arabic RIR... let's stop and question what COULD be 
>> motivations
>> 
>> Yes, you could argue language and culture... but realistically?  Ripe 
>> represents how many countries with how many diverse languages and 
>> cultures, and it works, same with AfriNIC, same with LACNIC, same 
>> with APAN.  So, not sure I really buy this.
>> IPv6, well, there is enough IPv6 to go around, so, get it from an 
>> Arabic RIR or from one of the current ones, no big deal there.
>> 
>> However... and here is the kicker... IPv4...
>> 
>> Fact, Africa still has loads of IPv4 space, and burn rates which are 
>> predicted to end it in something like 7 years.
>> Fact, RIPE has run out of space, there is no more.
>> Fact, a LOT of the Arabic countries still fall under RIPE, and can't 
>> get space.
>> 
>> Form a new RIR, and with AfriNIC's current burn rate, it is ENTIRELY 
>> possible that IANA could be lobbied to take space from AfriNIC and 
>> give it to the new RIR considering our burn rates.  What does this 
>> mean?  Suddenly a bunch of countries who currently cannot get space have
access to resources.
>> Forget the North African countries, I'm talking about the ones 
>> currently in the RIPE region.  Which means, we will see an outflow of 
>> space meant for Africa into places that aren't African.
>> 
>> I said in 2010 in Tanzania, the world would come for the African IP 
>> space if we didn't use it... my take on this... and as I said, its 
>> suspicion without proof, here is the latest attempt, and this is one 
>> is actually pretty clever.  While hijack space when you take it this 
>> way?  It amounts to the same as forming fake African entities and 
>> taking the space off continent in that way.
>> 
>> Smart... but no thanks...
>> 
>> Andrew
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rpd-bounces at afrinic.net [mailto:rpd-bounces at afrinic.net] On 
>> Behalf Of Owen DeLong
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 11:18 PM
>> To: David Conrad
>> Cc: rpd at afrinic.net
>> Subject: Re: [AFRINIC-rpd] AFRINIC Response to Government Calls for 
>> an Arab RIR
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 27, 2013, at 11:48 AM, David Conrad <drc at virtualized.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Feb 27, 2013, at 10:27 AM, SM <sm at resistor.net> wrote:
>>>> At 09:15 27-02-2013, Stephen Wilcox wrote:
>>>>> Its not really important - my point was that current RIRs exist 
>>>>> around
>> natural geographic areas rather than artificially defined political 
>> or linguistic areas that may not be contiguous.
>>>> 
>>>> The "natural geographic areas" is debatable.
>>> 
>>> Not really even debatable. There's been a bit of rationalization 
>>> over the
>> years (e.g., many of the former French colonies in the AP region and 
>> the Caribbean used to go to RIPE but I gather that's changed) but you 
>> still have non-intuitive situations like countries clearly in Asia 
>> (e.g., the 'Stans') going to RIPE or all of North America below the US
not being part of ARIN.
>> The reason for this is the boundaries of the RIRs have always tended 
>> to be defined by political/linguistic/cultural boundaries as opposed 
>> to purely natural geographic ones.
>>> 
>> 
>> However, I think it is worth noting that it makes sense to do so. 
>> Mexico has much stronger economic, social, cultural, and as a result 
>> network ties with the rest of the LACNIC region than with the US. 
>> LACNIC meetings are conducted in Spanish (for the most part) with 
>> simultaneous translation into English and (IIRC) Portuguese. ARIN 
>> meetings are conducted in English. Were Mexico part of the ARIN 
>> region, they would probably be somewhat less represented and would 
>> face a number of challenges (visas to attend meetings not being the least
of them).
>> 
>>>> The only information which has been provided is:
>>>> 
>>>> "The matter has been raised and promoted by representatives of 
>>>> certain  governments in the Arab community."
>>> 
>>> So it isn't even ISPs that are requesting this? I have even more 
>>> skepticism that sufficient consensus will be reached.
>> 
>> Exactly.
>> 
>> Owen
>> 
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